Champion Players have Incredible Cue Ball Control - What is Their Secret?

[Neil]

This is actually very good advice.

If you make a mental connection between your intended speed, and the length of
your followthrough, you may find speed control to be easier, especially under pressure.

Use a long follow through for some shots requiring extra force or cue ball action.
A shorter one for stunning or quick-drawing or punching the cue ball short distances.

It's not that the followthrough literally controls the cue ball, obviously your cue can't do anything
once the cue ball has left the tip. But it's sort of a visualization trick that can make speed control
easier and more reliable for you. When you mentally rehearse a shot and imagine the outcome
(which everyone should be doing on every ball)... it's easier to imagine something you can
actually see. Like where your tip ends up when the stroke finishes.

Whereas 'visualizing' swinging your arm faster or slower is not so easy.

These visualization tricks are very touchy-feely and not related to physics or mechanics,
but they can seriously help your game. I recommend people keep an open mind and try it.
I already know it works because I use this on shots where the right speed is important.

It kind of sucks that SJD has decided he's going to follow CJ around and take little potshots
at his (legitimate) advice and turn a potentially useful thread into another stupid cartoon battle.

And others (you know who you are) should not necessarily dismiss a tip like this
just because the guy making it has been known to sell DVDs.

I'm not saying it won't work. Anything will if you want to bad enough. But it is like teaching someone to reach around your back to scratch your elbow. Sure, it works, but why would you do that? Why make things harder to do instead of simpler?

I don't, and never have dismissed anything said just because it's being sold on a DVD. I do dismiss things that either don't work, or actually make the game harder than it needs to be. This does not add consistency, it takes away from consistency. Which is obvious just by the fact that he wants one to follow through different distances for different speeds. That's the opposite of consistency.

 

[CJ Wiley]

This technique is extremely powerful and once learned will become a vital weapon.

The example given regarding the golf swing, the follow through is so vital in the fact that it promotes the club "to release" through impact. Promoting both power and club head speed, allowing the "club" to do the work.The follow through in the swing will more than likely be the "tell sign" of the clubs path through the swing (not so much the club face angle or degree of impact). Same with the follow through of a pool stroke. While both sports are extremely different, there are a lot of similarities that both apply to one another. It's just that one of those sports require much more timing and coordination of a larger group of muscles than the other.

Again, these are just my opinions coming from a complete nobody, so take it with a grain of salt.

Dopc.

Yes, the key is to work BACKWARDS from the follow through to the pre shot routine. This technique is extremely powerful and once learned will become a vital weapon. There is a way to rehearse the entire shot BEFORE you shoot it so you can "get down" as if the shot has already been made.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I appreciate your support and your contributions.

Thank you, I appreciate your support and your contributions.

 

[CJ Wiley]

.not "aiming" shots, but creating angles.

You can shoot softer by hitting lower.

Yes, you can keep your shot speed consistent and change where you hit the cue ball on the vertical plane......I actually recommend this so a player can keep using the same type motion in the majority of their shots.

The TOI Technique goes over this in depth and also recommends using a consistent cue ball target and relationship to the object ball.....not "aiming" shots, but creating angles.

 

[elvicash]

What Mr. Wiley proposes here is complete and utter balderdash!

I have analyzed the threads on AZBilliards and it is clear that the two primary determinants of cue ball control are 1) the tip you use, and 2) the shaft you use.

If you can control the cue ball, then you're using the correct tip and shaft.

If not, you have the wrong tip and shaft.

Do NOT waste money on lessons. Spend your hard-earned dollars where the real action is: the tip and shaft.

He will play some $50 nineball says he will lose at least 50 games but you got to go to Dallas. Go show him what he don't know. You can get side action too, they sure are crazy in Texas. That oil and cattle money
makes them crazy.

Oh yeah about the tip and shaft, I am pretty sure he busted a guy one time using the 'STICK' which was a ball or 2 worse than a broom and it had NO tip, silly CJ used the floor as a shaper and ground that stick down and the guy he was playing. CJ don't know much about equipment. Shit maybe its the Indian and not the arrow. I don't know???

 

[CJ Wiley]

they sure are crazy in Texas. That oil and cattle money makes them crazy.

He will play some $50 nineball says he will lose at least 50 games but you got to go to Dallas. Go show him what he don't know. You can get side action too, they sure are crazy in Texas. That oil and cattle money makes them crazy.

That's an understatement.

 

[ronscuba]

..... I do dismiss things that either don't work, or actually make the game harder than it needs to be. This does not add consistency, it takes away from consistency. Which is obvious just by the fact that he wants one to follow through different distances for different speeds. That's the opposite of consistency.

Question.

I use a different length stroke for different speeds. Slow shot has a short backstroke and short follow through. Medium speed, medium length backstroke and medium distance follow through. The length of the follow through feels natural following the length of my backstroke.

I am low level intermediate player. This method was suggested to me by a local instructor. Seems simple and consistent.

 

[Neil]

Question.

I use a different length stroke for different speeds. Slow shot has a short backstroke and short follow through. Medium speed, medium length backstroke and medium distance follow through. The length of the follow through feels natural following the length of my backstroke.

I am low level intermediate player. This method was suggested to me by a local instructor. Seems simple and consistent.

How is it consistent when you have different lengths of stroke everytime you shoot?

 

[CJ Wiley]

.this will give you a "referential index" for all your other shots

Question.

I use a different length stroke for different speeds. Slow shot has a short backstroke and short follow through. Medium speed, medium length backstroke and medium distance follow through. The length of the follow through feels natural following the length of my backstroke.

I am low level intermediate player. This method was suggested to me by a local instructor. Seems simple and consistent.

Strive to hit all shots with the same shot speed in practice, this will teach you more than anyone could advise.

Use the vertical targets on the cue ball to create the necessary distance you desire for each shot....this will give you a "referential index" for all your other shots that do require different spins and speeds.

 

[ronscuba]

How is it consistent when you have different lengths of stroke everytime you shoot?

For my level of play, this is what my instructor suggested. 3 different lengths of stroke, short, medium, long. CB position needed determines the stroke length. The length of stroke is consistent within those 3 lengths. For example, a short stroke is 3 inches back, 3 inches follow through. Medium 6 inches, long 9 inches. All 3 stroke lengths have a smooth tempo.

Minor speed adjustments made by raising or lowering cue tip on the CB vertical line. A little more CB roll needed, raise the cue tip a little.

Not being able to devout a huge amount of practice time to develop a high level sense of touch, the 3 stoke length method seems to work well for me. It gives me a baseline reference to gauge and adjust.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Consistency is doing the same things over and over.

For my level of play, this is what my instructor suggested. 3 different lengths of stroke, short, medium, long. CB position needed determines the stroke length. The length of stroke is consistent within those 3 lengths. For example, a short stroke is 3 inches back, 3 inches follow through.

Minor speed adjustments made by raising or lowering cue tip on the CB vertical line. A little more CB roll needed, raise the cue tip a little.

If I tried to play like that I may never run a rack.

I strive to hit every shot the same....although this is not possible it's still what I try to do, especially in practice. Ultimately you need to create your favorite shot and use it as much as possible, this means a favorite part side of the cue ball, shot speed and reference point in connecting the cue ball to the object ball.

Consistency is doing the same things over and over......this includes the three components of any pool shot.....I cover this in detail in the TOI Technique and you can do it in other ways, I just show the one I use as an example.

* Cue Ball Tip Target
* Pool Cue Shot Speed
* Visual Connection Between the Cue Ball and Object Ball

 

[ronscuba]

If I tried to play like that I may never run a rack.

I strive to hit every shot the same....although this is not possible it's still what I try to do, especially in practice. Ultimately you need to create your favorite shot and use it as much as possible, this means a favorite part side of the cue ball, shot speed and reference point in connecting the cue ball to the object ball.

Consistency is doing the same things over and over......this includes the three components of any pool shot.....I cover this in detail in the TOI Technique and you can do it in other ways, I just show the one I use as an example.

* Cue Ball Tip Target
* Pool Cue Shot Speed
* Visual Connection Between the Cue Ball and Object Ball

Maybe my instructor recommend this method because it fit my current level of play, ability and amount of time I can practice. It is working for me.

Are there different methods meant for beginners, intermediate and advanced players ? I've been playing for 2 yrs.

I do see pro's use different stoke styles. Shane seems to use a very long stroke regardless if the shot is soft, medium or long. Appleton seems to vary his stroke length depending on the shot. Shane's long flowing stroke looks like it takes a lot of practice to maintain and control speed.

 

[CJ Wiley]

When you you "try" to do it, you are setting yourself up for future disappointment.

Maybe my instructor recommend this method because it fit my current level of play, ability and amount of time I can practice. It is working for me.

Are there different methods meant for beginners, intermediate and advanced players ? I've been playing for 2 yrs.

I do see pro's use different stoke styles. Shane seems to use a very long stroke regardless if the shot is soft, medium or long. Appleton seems to vary his stroke length depending on the shot. Shane's long flowing stroke looks like it takes a lot of practice to maintain and control speed.

Just don't get "paralysis by analysis" - the things you are thinking about are unnecessary.

Also, notice I'm suggesting you do as I'm recommending in practice, not in games....that way your subconscious will start to get involved, and ultimately that's where the game is played at the highest levels.

When advanced players can't describe how they aim it's because the information is below their conscious level.....it's the same with the issues you are dealing with. That's why in practice it's recommended to exaggerate any changes you wish to make and let your mind make the necessary corrections. When you you "try" to do it, you are setting yourself up for future disappointment. imho 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[cuemaker03]

There is a transition time with every player, it's just a matter of how abbreviated it is. We call this "The Gathering of the Shot" - players like Buddy Hall do it beautifully - this is one of the reasons he was known to have the best cue ball control in history.


This is What I've Noticed About What Buddy Hall and Other Champions Do Differently:

It requires energy to take the cue back and it takes more energy to redirect the cue. Mentally (usually sub consciously) there's a calculation that must take place to equate the forward movement of the cue with the speed and length of the shot.

We like to practice exaggerating this technique so that there's a distinct forward motion of the cue......after all, we never hit the cue ball with our back-swing, it's just used to coil the cue back before the moment of release - or they say "the moment of highest tension".

There is one school of thought that the follow through doesn't matter because the cue ball is already gone. This may be true in one respect, especially if you just look at the stroke mechanically. However, from my experience it's vital to control the after contact movement of the cue ball WITH the length of the follow through.

This is what gives the player (like Buddy Hall) that high degree of touch and feel for the game that's essential for top notch performance under pressure......when you are in that "do or die" situation do you lose your touch and feel? Maybe this will help you.

When I want the "after contact" movement of the cue ball to be exaggerated I exaggerate the follow through, when I want the "after contact" movement to be compact, I compact my follow through.....even if I want the cue ball to jump slightly I'll use a "staccato type" follow through that creates that movement so the cue ball's reaction is either delayed or accelerated.

If Buddy Hall didn't have a very good understanding of how the cue moves FORWARD from the top of the back-swing he would not be able to play at the champion's level of performance. His forward movement is one of the best I've ever seen, he never seems to be in a hurry or "reaching" for power, he always has an ample supply in his grasp.

Whether a player is aware of it or not the follow through must connect to the "after contact" reaction of the cue ball....or you'll always be playing a "guessing game," and it really shows up under the pressure of a high dollar match or tournament.

The cue ball's reaction, at the highest level is a reflection of what the cue is doing......the more you can calibrate the cue's motion to coincide with the cue ball's "after contact" reaction the better off you will be.......this is one of the essential "differences that make a difference" in winning or just coming close. 'The Inner Game is the Teacher'

Definitley something to think about.

 

[CreeDo]

I'm not saying it won't work. Anything will if you want to bad enough. But it is like teaching someone to reach around your back to scratch your elbow. Sure, it works, but why would you do that? Why make things harder to do instead of simpler?

I don't, and never have dismissed anything said just because it's being sold on a DVD. I do dismiss things that either don't work, or actually make the game harder than it needs to be. This does not add consistency, it takes away from consistency. Which is obvious just by the fact that he wants one to follow through different distances for different speeds. That's the opposite of consistency.

It is NOT equivalent to reaching around your back to scratch your elbow because different length
followthroughs are already a natural part of everyone's game.

I can virtually guarantee you personally do NOT follow through exactly the same distance
for a 1 foot stop shot and a 9 foot power draw shot.
And that's fine, that's normal. There is no practical value to trying to force these two shots to look identical.

If your arm is moving faster, it takes a longer time to 'brake', and therefore the followthrough WILL be longer
unless you consciously force it not to be. You can label that "inconsistent" if you want, but it's only
working with what your body naturally wants to do rather than forcing something unnatural.

Again, this is a visualization thing. Visualization is very personal.
There is more than one way to work on speed control. You can use differing followthroughs
to subconsciously direct your arm speed. You can try changing travel distance with tip placement.
You can assign arbitrary numbers to your swing and say "ok, I need to hit this with a 6 speed".
You can even play different thicknesses of hit.

It's not correct to imply that followthrough length goes against some sort of best practice
and is a really convoluted, weird way to do it. It's actually a very natural method.

Forcing yourself to use one guy's way, and not even considering another method that may just "click"
with your particular brain, is "making the game harder than it needs to be".

 

[Neil]

Strive to hit all shots with the same shot speed in practice, this will teach you more than anyone could advise.

Use the vertical targets on the cue ball to create the necessary distance you desire for each shot....this will give you a "referential index" for all your other shots that do require different spins and speeds.

Exactly. See, C.J., when you get things right, I state that too.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Exactly. See, C.J., when you get things right, I state that too.

that's creepy .....

 

[CJ Wiley]

You're right, no one can play and think about that kind of stuff

It is NOT equivalent to reaching around your back to scratch your elbow because different length
followthroughs are already a natural part of everyone's game.

I can virtually guarantee you personally do NOT follow through exactly the same distance
for a 1 foot stop shot and a 9 foot power draw shot.
And that's fine, that's normal. There is no practical value to trying to force these two shots to look identical.

If your arm is moving faster, it takes a longer time to 'brake', and therefore the followthrough WILL be longer
unless you consciously force it not to be. You can label that "inconsistent" if you want, but it's only
working with what your body naturally wants to do rather than forcing something unnatural.

Again, this is a visualization thing. Visualization is very personal.
There is more than one way to work on speed control. You can use differing followthroughs
to subconsciously direct your arm speed. You can try changing travel distance with tip placement.
You can assign arbitrary numbers to your swing and say "ok, I need to hit this with a 6 speed".
You can even play different thicknesses of hit.

It's not correct to imply that followthrough length goes against some sort of best practice
and is a really convoluted, weird way to do it. It's actually a very natural method.

Forcing yourself to use one guy's way, and not even considering another method that may just "click"
with your particular brain, is "making the game harder than it needs to be".

You're right, no one can play and think about that kind of stuff and play above a 6 or 7.

The follow through does reflect how the cue ball will react after contact though.....however, I wouldn't get to conscious of it, I'm still referring to a subconscious technique that requires feel......I'm hardly ever aware of it visually.

 

[Neil]

It is NOT equivalent to reaching around your back to scratch your elbow because different length
followthroughs are already a natural part of everyone's game.
Actually, it's not. Most people don't even have much of a followthrough at all because they just poke at the ball.
I can virtually guarantee you personally do NOT follow through exactly the same distance for a 1 foot stop shot and a 9 foot power draw shot.

Exactly, no I don't. Within an inch or so, yes I do.

And that's fine, that's normal. There is no practical value to trying to force these two shots to look identical.
Actually there is, consistency.

If your arm is moving faster, it takes a longer time to 'brake', and therefore the followthrough WILL be longer
unless you consciously force it not to be. You can label that "inconsistent" if you want, but it's only
working with what your body naturally wants to do rather than forcing something unnatural.
True that it will take a longer time to brake if you shoot that way. It's not what your body "naturally" wants to do. Rather, it's what you have trained your body to do.
Again, this is a visualization thing. Visualization is very personal.
It's only a visualization thing for you, because you are making it one. There are easier ways to do things.
There is more than one way to work on speed control. You can use differing followthroughs
to subconsciously direct your arm speed. You can try changing travel distance with tip placement.
You can assign arbitrary numbers to your swing and say "ok, I need to hit this with a 6 speed".
You can even play different thicknesses of hit.
Very true, I never stated otherwise. What I did state, is that some ways are harder than others.
It's not correct to imply that followthrough length goes against some sort of best practice
and is a really convoluted, weird way to do it. It's actually a very natural method.
That's where you would be wrong.

Forcing yourself to use one guy's way, and not even considering another method that may just "click"
with your particular brain, is "making the game harder than it needs to be".

Not true.The only one that stated another way is not considered is you. I never stated that. It all boils down to what training you have already done. All you are really defending is doing something a harder way for so long, that to now do it an easier and better way takes more training. You first have to undo the harder way before you can truly see the benefits of doing it the easier way.

The truth of the matter, is you will be much more consistent doing it the right way than you ever will be doing it the wrong way. Sure, you can get quite good doing it the wrong way. But never as good as you could have been.

 

[CJ Wiley]

By shortening my bridge in half I could still accelerate the same

You can shoot softer by hitting lower.

The most effective way is to also shorten your bridge (by choking up on the wrap slightly). My forte was playing people on their "home tables" and many times they had exceptionally fast cloth, which I don't particularly like.

By shortening my bridge in half I could still accelerate (Using TOI) the same and not change my playing style. This can also be done by increasing the shot speed slightly as well, or a mixture of the two might be the right "combination".

Then, after adapting to the speed I could start lengthening my bridge (by allowing my right hand to come back) and still maintain the same style of play. I used to match up games where I had to go back and forth from bar tables to big tables and the cloth was usually different, knowing how to choke up on the cue to alter bridge length is a big advantage because it reduces the other variables automatically.