Champions From Below the Border

[jrhendy]

Veracruz may have been the best of the Mexicans but he tries to stay under the radar. There was a big tournament in Hollywood 7 or 8 years ago. I lost 9-8 to Morro in the final on the losers side. Morro then had to play Veracruz in the final and I overheard Morro asking Veracruz if he wanted to split it (it was something like $2400 first, $1600 second), Veracruz said "no way" and proceeded to drill Morro in the final.

Veracruz was a very good player & I think his bar pool game was even better than the big table. I ran into him a few months ago at Family Billiards in San Francisco and he told me he was pretty much only playing on bar tables now. I still contend Helio (Gilbert ?) was the best of all of them before he passed away. He ran around with Jose Luis who probably still plays at Hard Times in Bellflower.

Mexpoolplayer, if you read this, ask your dad what Helio's name was and what he thought of his game. Thanks, John Henderson

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Just out of curiosity, what kind games did Veracruz and players of his era enjoy playing the most? Nine-ball, One-pocket, Eight-ball, or something else?

JAM

He is still in his 'era' and is a monster at all games, especially at 1pocket. In my own opinion, he is also the best barbox 8ball player I have ever seen. I was lucky enough to see a little of his speed about a year ago. We played 5 a game barbox 8ball, and when he realized that I caught on that he was a great player, he showed a little bit of his speed. He's got a funny gig when he walks into bars looking to make money, lol.

 

[MexPoolPlyr]

John, Helio's name was Girdarldo Mascareno (sp), <with an accent over the n>

According to my dad, his game was awesome, but his break was terrible. He said he would make absolutely anything on the table. Pushing out to back cuts and making them with ease. In his opinion, one of, if not the greatest shotmaker he's ever seen. Great billiard player too. Also, says one of the best Mexican plyrs, if not the best overall. My dad got along with him very well and went on a few road trips together. They were good friends. Oscar

 

[RunoutalloverU]

Ive played bernardo CHAVEZ, morro, ernesto and his son oscar. Morro is the greatest mexican player of all time... period. Second place in the world championships....nuff' said.

 

[jrhendy]

Ive played bernardo CHAVEZ, morro, ernesto and his son oscar. Morro is the greatest mexican player of all time... period. Second place in the world championships....nuff' said.

Morro is a friend and competitor of mine for over 30 years, and Ernesto for almost as long. While both of them are great players and still liable to beat anybody at any time, I think both of them would agree that Rafael Martinez was the best player to come from Mexico. He came along later than the players mentioned in this thread, and that is why I never mentioned him. If you are talking about the best ever from Mexico, it is Rafael.

 

[jrhendy]

John, Helio's name was Girdarldo Mascareno (sp), <with an accent over the n>

According to my dad, his game was awesome, but his break was terrible. He said he would make absolutely anything on the table. Pushing out to back cuts and making them with ease. In his opinion, one of, if not the greatest shotmaker he's ever seen. Great billiard player too. Also, says one of the best Mexican plyrs, if not the best overall. My dad got along with him very well and went on a few road trips together. They were good friends. Oscar

Thanks, I forgot about his weak break. In those days we played two shot shootout and the break just wasn't as important in 9 ball as it is today. He won a billiard tournament in Sacramento against a pretty good field somewhere around 1980. If I remeber right, he was also supposed to be a good mariachi singer.

 

[JAM]

Thanks, I forgot about his weak break. In those days we played two shot shootout and the break just wasn't as important in 9 ball as it is today. He won a billiard tournament in Sacramento against a pretty good field somewhere around 1980. If I remeber right, he was also supposed to be a good mariachi singer.

Ain't it the truth. The two-shot/push-out days, a player had to actually shoot his way to the finish line. There did not seem to be as much luck involved in the nine-ball game.

I still do not like the racking problems associated with nine-ball. Ten-ball eliminates this. When you see a player like Dennis Hatch run multiple racks, as he did recently in Florida, that is demonstrative of a strong player. The racking in nine-ball allows some players to cheat, IMHO, when they rack the balls with crack formations in the rack. Some players got this racking down to a fine science.

I'll see if I can find out which tournament that was in Sacramento with "Helio."

JAM

 

[JAM]

...He won a billiard tournament in Sacramento against a pretty good field somewhere around 1980....

I'm still looking in my pool library stuff for Helio's victory in Sacramento.

In doing so, I found this little nugget about Keith in Sacramento.

At 21 years of age, McCready made an impression when, coming from behind, he ran nine straight racks of nine-ball in the finals, defeating Larry Hubbart, 11-6, to win the Sacramento Open Nine-ball Tournament.

And those were the days of the two-shot/push-out rules, too.

JAM

 

[jrhendy]

Yolo Billiards 3 Cushion Tournament

Ain't it the truth. The two-shot/push-out days, a player had to actually shoot his way to the finish line. There did not seem to be as much luck involved in the nine-ball game.

I still do not like the racking problems associated with nine-ball. Ten-ball eliminates this. When you see a player like Dennis Hatch run multiple racks, as he did recently in Florida, that is demonstrative of a strong player. The racking in nine-ball allows some players to cheat, IMHO, when they rack the balls with crack formations in the rack. Some players got this racking down to a fine science.

I'll see if I can find out which tournament that was in Sacramento with "Helio."

JAM

The tournament was at a pool room called Yolo Billiards. It was not a sanctioned tournament, but most of the top billiard players in No. California were there, including Robert Byrne and several players from California Billiards in San Jose, that was the premiere 3 cushion spot up north and hosted the USA championships almost every year at that time. Ernesto Dominguez son Oscar posted Helio's full name on another thread in this post.

 

[LAMas]

Morro is a friend and competitor of mine for over 30 years, and Ernesto for almost as long. While both of them are great players and still liable to beat anybody at any time, I think both of them would agree that Rafael Martinez was the best player to come from Mexico. He came along later than the players mentioned in this thread, and that is why I never mentioned him. If you are talking about the best ever from Mexico, it is Rafael.

I followed Rafael at the Hardtimes in Belflower where he started in the midweek tournaments and then progressing to the Sunday, the more difficult, tourney. He had the natural talent and determination, but needed to get more experience at 9 ball for he got better and better. After a few years like John Shmidt, he went on the Road.

Back then, there was a young Ron Rosas, who when he was right was a tough player. I didn't know how difficult it was to be a tournament player then, until Ron, after he was knocked out of a tourney in carson, if I wanted to buy his players pass for a few bucks - he didn't need it any more.

Not from SoCal, there was another barbox player that went by Chicago Juan or Johnnie who ran into Jose Parica giving him something like the 5 out and Juan lost at the Hardimes - very entertaining match.

The times, they were a changing - the Phillipino invasion was here.

 

[Walt Frazier]

Unless he changed it some time between 1984 (when the article was written) and 1988 (my first real memory of King Kong), King Kong's last name is Chavez, not Ramirez. Cool article though. I always like reading pool articles from the past.

Don't forget the once dead but now alive Rafael Martinez..David Guiterrez and Renee Rendon.Plus about 100 more in Houston alone.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Ive played bernardo CHAVEZ, morro, ernesto and his son oscar. Morro is the greatest mexican player of all time... period. Second place in the world championships....nuff' said.

LOL you have a huge misconception if you think Morro is the best. He was and is a great player. I'm not trying to discredit Morro, but I have a feeling you only heard about his 2nd place in the WPC and never saw the recordings of his run in that tournament.

 

[Russ Chewning]

I followed Rafael at the Hardtimes in Belflower where he started in the midweek tournaments and then progressing to the Sunday, the more difficult, tourney. He had the natural talent and determination, but needed to get more experience at 9 ball for he got better and better. After a few years like John Shmidt, he went on the Road.

Back then, there was a young Ron Rosas, who when he was right was a tough player. I didn't know how difficult it was to be a tournament player then, until Ron, after he was knocked out of a tourney in carson, if I wanted to buy his players pass for a few bucks - he didn't need it any more.

Not from SoCal, there was another barbox player that went by Chicago Juan or Johnnie who ran into Jose Parica giving him something like the 5 out and Juan lost at the Hardimes - very entertaining match.

The times, they were a changing - the Phillipino invasion was here.

Yah gotta wonder... when a road player who has a legitimate claim on being a top five player in the U.S., like Jose was, gets an offer of the 5 out.. What is running through his mind?

"Man o man! I got a live one here! Hmmm.. Before I take the weight.. Mebbe I can get him to give me 2-1 or 3-2 on the money? It can't hurt to try!"

Russ

 

[JAM]

Here's a little nugget I found: Ernesto Dominguez hails from Chiauahua, Mexico. Ernesto came in second to John Schuput in Las Vegas at the Miller Lite Beer $200,000 World Series of Tavern Pool, winning $10,000. He is a pool table mechanic and owns his own business.

Wow, 10,000 bucks for second place in 1983 is pretty cool!

And then there's this in the same article: Frank 'The Barber" Almanza plays out of the California area. Frank is a very formidable opponent, with numerous tournament wins. He competes in most of the major tournaments in the west and is definitely considered as a "Star of Tomorrow."

Still looking for Helio!

JAM

 

[JAM]

Man, check out these payouts in the late '80s:

The Stagger Inn in Bellflower, California, was the site of a Round Robin Nine-ball Tournament held the weekend of July 29-31. A field of 24 of Southern California's top players drew spots for six people groups who were assigned to play on one table.

I don't get at all how this tournament went, but I understand money.

Men Top Money Winners

1. (tie) Richard Florence, $25,000
1. (tie) Gary Pinkowski, $25,000

How do you have a tie for first? I don't get it.

3. Mike Sigel, $24,900
4. Allen Hopkins, $18,800
5. Keith McCready $17,425
6. Willie Munson, $12,725
7. Buddy Hall, $12,575
8. David Howard, $11,650

9. (tie) Luther Lassiter, $10,000
9. (tie) Burt Dreisch, $10,000

11. Dallas West, $9,700
12. Steve Mizerak, $8,775
13. Jimmy Reid, $8,575
14. Larry Hubbart, $7,750
15. Dave Matlock, $7,300

Jean Balukas won $12,000 in the ladies division as top money winner.

Man, these are some pretty sweet payouts in the '80s!

JAM

 

[JG-in-KY]

Jam, that looks like overall money list for that year. I know Florence and Pinkowski won 25k each for winning World Series of Pool events that year.

 

[JAM]

Jam, that looks like overall money list for that year. I know Florence and Pinkowski won 25k each for winning World Series of Pool events that year.

Ah, that makes more sense. I read the article and couldn't figure it out, how players could tie for first and ninth place!

In an interview with Danny Diliberto, "Old Schoolin' with Danny Diliberto," Danny states pool players from all over the country came to Bellflower to play pool and stayed for about 2 or 3 years.

With the ability to make this kind of dough on a regional tour in Southern California as well as other money-making opportunities, Bellflower must have been the place to be!

JAM

 

[frankwhite]

Wow

Man, check out these payouts in the late '80s:

The Stagger Inn in Bellflower, California, was the site of a Round Robin Nine-ball Tournament held the weekend of July 29-31. A field of 24 of Southern California's top players drew spots for six people groups who were assigned to play on one table.

I don't get at all how this tournament went, but I understand money.

Men Top Money Winners

1. (tie) Richard Florence, $25,000
1. (tie) Gary Pinkowski, $25,000

How do you have a tie for first? I don't get it.

3. Mike Sigel, $24,900
4. Allen Hopkins, $18,800
5. Keith McCready $17,425
6. Willie Munson, $12,725
7. Buddy Hall, $12,575
8. David Howard, $11,650

9. (tie) Luther Lassiter, $10,000
9. (tie) Burt Dreisch, $10,000

11. Dallas West, $9,700
12. Steve Mizerak, $8,775
13. Jimmy Reid, $8,575
14. Larry Hubbart, $7,750
15. Dave Matlock, $7,300

Jean Balukas won $12,000 in the ladies division as top money winner.

Man, these are some pretty sweet payouts in the '80s!

JAM

Over $200,000.00 wow. Not to mention, 15 out of 24 receives the cheese.

 

[JAM]

Sweet article Jam. How are you btw? My dad has told me some war stories of him and all the Mexicans versus "el diablo" . I asked my dad why they called him "el diablo," his explanation was that everyone was scared of Keith and nobody wanted any part of the devil. lol.

Boy, I sure do wish I was around that era to sweat the action. It would have been nice.

Oscar, I have made a copy of this article about your dad.

I just received a PM from T411 whose uncle is mentioned in the article, too, and he was hoping I could send him a copy. If you would like one, PM me your postal address. It is a very nicely written piece and something that I think you would like to have as a keepsake.

JAM

 

[Jimmy M.]

I don't know if you caught him on the stall or what, but I was hanging out at Hard Times when Rafael first showed up. It isn't like he progressed into a top player after making his way through the weekly tournament ranks at Hard Times. He showed up at Hard Times as a great player already.

I followed Rafael at the Hardtimes in Belflower where he started in the midweek tournaments and then progressing to the Sunday, the more difficult, tourney. He had the natural talent and determination, but needed to get more experience at 9 ball for he got better and better. After a few years like John Shmidt, he went on the Road.