Changing the Rules in the Middle of a Tourney..

[dardusm]

It is actually very cool for you to come here and address the issues with the fans Captain K.


The big issue I had was that it looked like Klatt and Dechaine both were not shooting slow, and it is brutally obvious that Jeremy was shooting alot slower in the entire match against Klatt then either Mike or Jason were shooting in the match when the shot clock was first implemented. That is where the whole thing got the subjective vibe, that is where the confusion and questions are comming from. It was clear that in one match very slow play was tollerated through the whole match, and then in the subsequent match far quicker play was not. It was inconsistent.

This is the only issue that I had with using the shot clock. If it is going to be used at all, it definitely needed to be used in the hot seat match but wasn't. The event was awesome and professional. Thanks to everyone involved for holding such a tournament.

 

[Captain K.]

Once again, this is not true.. The shot clock was only used for the final 2 matches of the tournament.. At no other time, during the entire event, was the shot clock used.. Which is why you can pretty much assume the promoters were being pressured by the Hotel..

Alright "Teddydog" I personal refereed 19 matches over the 3 day event 7 of those I used the shot clock , 3 on the one of the two streamed tables

Case Closed

Kennan Keffer, the tall bald guy

and thankyou Melinda for your personal info on the subject during the players meeting and bringing up the rules sheet that was given to ALL players prior to them getting on the Bracket Thursday, 12 hours prior to the 8:00am start time on Friday.

 

[Captain K.]

I'm sure he's a competent ref, but it's like calling a strike on Ted Williams... When JJ says you fouled, you fouled..

Well in any billiard event that has referees I have yet to see a player call a foul then and only then it be applied legaly.
ie: Play says I fouled, ref did not see it, no foul, player then taps cue ball with tip of cue or picks up cue ball, then yes it is a foul but not because the player says I fouled. look it up

Thankyou for your interest in the event, I hope, while you were there, you were able to pick up some tips on pool playin, photos and autographs.

Awesome event
Kennan Keffer

PS "Teddydog" If you are ever in the D/FW area again, please pm me and I can let you know of the local weekly and monthly tournaments going on then.

 

[Captain K.]

Was the 2 hour limit for matches the same for races to 8, 10 and 12?

Sorry if I am asking a question already answered. I may have missed it.

BTW - Magic Rack is great.

Yes the established 2 hour time limit was not changed for the longer races

 

[JCMn]

MY 2 cents....

First of all, as others have mentioned, absolutely AWESOME Live Stream of the event! I hope there are more to come.

I think it may have been been better to just have the shot clock throughout the entire event. That way the players know it's in effect and can get used to adjusting there game to it being in effect. If it had been in effect the whole tournament, it MAY have been possible to give extended clock times for each shot, which would have sped up the earlier rounds, which possibly would have eliminated the need for 30 / 15 in the semis / finals. SO maybe a 45 / 15 clock for the entire tournament....

Regardless, a great event!

 

[Captain K.]

Once again, this is not true.. The shot clock was only used for the final 2 matches of the tournament.. At no other time, during the entire event, was the shot clock used.. Which is why you can pretty much assume the promoters were being pressured by the Hotel..

As with refereeing if you are not 1000% sure of a ruling you defer to the TD, so as far as the hotel presuring them to get out, I can only say the Emmbasy rep I spoke with after 2am Monday moring asked if they need to lock the banquet room or if the Ultimate 10 ball security would be their all night as they had been the 2 previous days.
Kennan Keffer

 

[justadub]

Really?

I was at the Player's Meeting (because I played in the event). A shot clock was most DEFINITELY mentioned by Ken Shulman during the player's meeting. Further, the rules (that everyone received when signing in) specifically talked about a shot clock, also.

There you go again, talkin' all sensible and such.

How could you have known, you were only actually there at the meeting?

Thanks for providing a little reality.

 

[Captain K.]

First of all, as others have mentioned, absolutely AWESOME Live Stream of the event! I hope there are more to come.

I think it may have been been better to just have the shot clock throughout the entire event. That way the players know it's in effect and can get used to adjusting there game to it being in effect. If it had been in effect the whole tournament, it MAY have been possible to give extended clock times for each shot, which would have sped up the earlier rounds, which possibly would have eliminated the need for 30 / 15 in the semis / finals. SO maybe a 45 / 15 clock for the entire tournament....

Regardless, a great event!

Yes it was agreat event just clarify
shotclock times did not change at anytime during the tourny, 45 seconds and one 30 second exstension, per player per rack, if the match goes hill hill then each player gets two 30 second extensions instead of one, but only if a match goes to hill hill

thankyou for your perspective hope to met ya some time and maby hit a few

Kennan

 

[GADawg]

Yes the established 2 hour time limit was not changed for the longer races

Makes no sense to me, but what do I know.

 

[Captain K.]

Makes no sense to me, but what do I know.

All tournamnets that I have been involved in has had an established time limit, most don't use a shot clock, so time limit up last game wins.

Thankou for watching from Thialand, great to know this event is international

Kennan

 

[master9baller]

I have a real problem with the way the semi-finals and finals of the Ultimate 10-Ball Championship was held.. After not having a shot clock throughout the entire tournament, one was instilled for the finals, and loser's brackett finals of the men's tournament.. How can this be allowed to happen?..

And let's not forget to mention, this change led to a big advantage for Mike Deschaine, and was detremental to the more methodical Jeremy Jones.. One has a hard time not thinking that was the purpose of the change, all along..

Please

No offense here, but JJ took 3 hrs and 20 minutes for a race to 8 and put poor Jason Klatt to sleep! that was more than unfair to him. Leaving him no chance to get into stroke.

Besides JJ played well, until he dogged the game that was to have him on the hill. They were very liberal with the shot clock anyway. it changed nothing, except for people being able to go to bed at a reasonable hour.

 

[Captain K.]

Please

No offense here, but JJ took 3 hrs and 20 minutes for a race to 8 and put poor Jason Klatt to sleep! that was more than unfair to him. Leaving him no chance to get into stroke.

Besides JJ played well, until he dogged the game that was to have him on the hill. They were very liberal with the shot clock anyway. it changed nothing, except for people being able to go to bed at a reasonable hour.

I cannot confirm the time on Jeremy and Klatt match cause I was refereeing another match, but as stated in earlier posts the use of the shotclock or when to start it was up to the ref at the table unless the TD told them to start it. TD Ken Shuman was refin a match during the winner side match. Ray has the streams and it will show the stream time.

Thankyou for your perspective, awesome streams though

Kennan

 

[Teddydog]

Alright "Teddydog" I personal refereed 19 matches over the 3 day event 7 of those I used the shot clock , 3 on the one of the two streamed tables

Case Closed

Kennan Keffer, the tall bald guy

and thankyou Melinda for your personal info on the subject during the players meeting and bringing up the rules sheet that was given to ALL players prior to them getting on the Bracket Thursday, 12 hours prior to the 8:00am start time on Friday.

Case Closed?.. Really?.. You implemented a shot clock, IN A MEN'S MATCH?..

 

[bfdlad]

I enjoyed watching the event all weekend and thank you to all involved. The only thing that is bothering me about this thread is the talk of Ken Shulman the TD for the event. Ken is one of the nicest and fairest people you are ever gonna meet. the thought that he would somehow change the rules to benefit any player is just a non starter as far as I am concerned. Ken is another one of those guys I would leave my wallet with.

If anything at all at the event kinda wound me up a bit was the amount of time the refs were taking between each rack. At one point the players were on a shot clock but the ref was taking as long to rack the balls as the actual rack was taking. By the time they got done moving beads, writing down the scores, cleaning the table after every rack and then slowly racking it too longer than I have ever seen before. So if the players are on a shot clock the refs need to get a move on.

Mark,

 

[MahnaMahna]

Case Closed?.. Really?.. You implemented a shot clock, IN A MEN'S MATCH?..

Uuhhhh, yeah, over 3 hours for a race to 8 is freaking ridiculous. But keep b*tchin there smart guy, maybe at some point you might actually say something that makes sense.

Good job Captain K, nice tournament Ken!

 

[Lefty214]

An interpretacion of what was heard by a commentator is hard for me to answer because I was at the event not on a computer (which was an awsome split screen event they, Bigtuck and inside pool did great job):thumbup::thumbup:

Howdy ya'll, to clarify. The the matches were set at a 2 hour time limit, all referees from the first match on Friday and the last match that ended about 1:30 am on Monday morning had a stopwatch. Durning the players meeting and before the start of each match the players were to be notified of the 2 hour time limit and that one hour and 1/2 hour time left in match, it was left up the referees discretion when to instute the shot clock for the remander of said match, unless the TDs (Ken Shulman, Zack Ballas) deemed it to be instituted at an earlier time, during a specific match.

I will try to answer each specific question to the best of my knowlege in each post.

If someone is just going to bash the event from behind an avatar name, those questions will be left alone.

Badi has invested, infused a conciderable amount of money and time, to host this and last years event in Aruba. His long range plan is to have open events that will be events on the line with pro golf, pro tennis, pro bowling.

Thankyou
Kennan Keffer
Denton, Tx.

I was sitting very close to a womans match on Friday that was taking forever (I wont say the names). The ref put them on the clock, and one of them never made another ball. So I guess there was a shot clock all weekend.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I enjoyed watching the event all weekend and thank you to all involved. The only thing that is bothering me about this thread is the talk of Ken Shulman the TD for the event. Ken is one of the nicest and fairest people you are ever gonna meet. the thought that he would somehow change the rules to benefit any player is just a non starter as far as I am concerned. Ken is another one of those guys I would leave my wallet with.

If anything at all at the event kinda wound me up a bit was the amount of time the refs were taking between each rack. At one point the players were on a shot clock but the ref was taking as long to rack the balls as the actual rack was taking. By the time they got done moving beads, writing down the scores, cleaning the table after every rack and then slowly racking it too longer than I have ever seen before. So if the players are on a shot clock the refs need to get a move on.

Mark,

Agree with both points. Ken has built enough credibility over time with me too. He'd have to call a cue ball foul on a player in his chair before I'd even begin to question his fairness, lol.

The slow racking was a little bizarre given they were using the magic rack. I suppose that because of the experience level of the officiating crew (using a ref for each match) that the ref's were being extremely cautious in not wanting to inadvertently giving a loose rack. I also wonder how much experience some of them had with the Magic Rack prior to this event. But this is really a nitpick in the scheme of what was overall a great tournament.

 

[Teddydog]

Well in any billiard event that has referees I have yet to see a player call a foul then and only then it be applied legaly.
ie: Play says I fouled, ref did not see it, no foul, player then taps cue ball with tip of cue or picks up cue ball, then yes it is a foul but not because the player says I fouled. look it up

Thankyou for your interest in the event, I hope, while you were there, you were able to pick up some tips on pool playin, photos and autographs.

Awesome event
Kennan Keffer

PS "Teddydog" If you are ever in the D/FW area again, please pm me and I can let you know of the local weekly and monthly tournaments going on then.

I really don't need you to explain the rules of pocket billiards to me, bro... I am well versed.. The problem is, I think, that I'm not getting through to you.. Lemme try and be clear..

I promise you JJ know better than any referee if a player fouled, or not.. If JJ asked the TD Ken whatever if it was a foul, you can damn well guarantee it was.. Now, Ken missed it, and that happens, but instead of trying to explain to me the minutae of referees, and rules, and instead try understand that everybody is human, and refs need to always try and get better, too..

 

[Teddydog]

Uuhhhh, yeah, over 3 hours for a race to 8 is freaking ridiculous. But keep b*tchin there smart guy, maybe at some point you might actually say something that makes sense.

Good job Captain K, nice tournament Ken!

LOL.. Why does it have to be like that, man?.. You cannot discuss things like an adult?..

 

[Captain K.]

Case Closed?.. Really?.. You implemented a shot clock, IN A MEN'S MATCH?..

Not sure why you are yelling "mens match", but if your are asking a civil question of did I use a shot clock on a mens match then the answer is yes, and more than one.

We can keep this up all day and I am sure you can make it to 50 posts :thumbup:

Maby by then you will nolonger be "teddydog" but a real person.

I am happy that their are people that are this passionate about a billiards in Texas.

Kennan Keffer