Changing the Rules in the Middle of a Tourney..

Teddydog said:
Well, there is certainly some measure to what u say, but I think I have been fair.. I stated what I thought, ammended it to say that thinking it was intentionally done was too strong, and apologized, and done nothing sense but raise pertinent questions about the shot clock, and this site.. I asked the referee what matches he used the clock on, and instead of answering, he deflects by saying I'm yelling at him (which is utterly ridiculous, and childish), and now he refers me to the stream (which I watched, BTW... ALL 3 DAYS.. Sorry for yelling), but I never saw any match go on the clock..

I said I'll admit it if I'm wrong, but so far, nobody has shown me that I am..
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All fair enough.

Also fair enough is how Captain K has been in his responses. From an objective standpoint, he appears to have answered your questions. Again, just my opinion, from one who has no vested interest in either side of the arguments.

And lastly, just for your benefit, all caps is, and has always been considered yelling in any sort of forum environment. Just because you think it's silly isn't going to change how people are going to perceive you on the internet. Not only on this site, but anywhere, including texting or any other sort of text based communication. I'm not saying this to chide you, only to be yet another confirmation for you of what people are saying is indeed the case, in this particluar case. It will make your life easier in any online situation if you understand it, whether or not you agree with it.

Again, best to you. Stay true to your brother, it is cool. He was really enjoyable to watch (and I have to admit, moreso after the shot clock than before) and sure seems to be a class act all the way. I'll be watching for his name in tourney results now, to see how he finishes, that's for sure.
 
Blackjack said:
Captain K
I just wanted to say that all throughout the entire weekend, I heard many people talking about the professionalism that you displayed while refereeing. Although there were some problems with other referees, you could always hear people follow their complaints up with "but that tall guy with the glasses is the absolute best. He's on top of everything!" Personally, I think you set a new standard for professionalism with the way you did your job during this event. You are IMO, the absolute best!
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Thankyou for compliment, and remember this was Easter Weekend it was impossible to get enough pro experince refs to the event, the men and women, I know because I was one , very nervous and unsure of their authority at the tables, my hats are off to all the players for I recived only one complaint about bullying, but the ref that was bullied new the of unsaid players past. I do know it was frustrating with the amount of time between racks, it was my first time with the magic rack too, we were insrtucted to clean balls and tables often. This will be address before the next event, hopefully we will more 5 refs signed up prior to 2 days out, talk about phone calls and texted to get the 20+ refs we had. As I have said thiis the first pro event in north Texas since 1996 so all local league players only have pro day if they went to another state or parcipated in ref camp at Nationals. Hopefully we can have a referee school the day before the matches start at the next event.

All in all just awesome

Kennan
 
I'm not yelling ! THIS IS HOW I TALK !

DaveChappelle-SamuelJacksonBeer.jpg
 
akaTrigger said:
"all caps" has been considered as yelling for many years.
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I have always used caps to represent emphasis on key words or points. I know alot of people think caps = shouting, but IMO using them is certain situations make them more prone to be taken as emphasized points. Posting a whole post in all caps, shouting, posting a SINGLE word or two in the post, more of an emphasis.

It is not as easy to relay intent and emotions on the internet as it is when talking in person.
 
Bob Jewett said:
A suggestion to the organizer:

I don't much like how the shot clock works at pool tournaments. The carom players have a much better idea. There is a visible display of the clock as a colored bar moving across a monitor screen that faces the table. (Often there are two monitors so that the clock is easily visible no matter where the player might be.) There is no decision about whether to sound the warning when the player may or may not be down on the shot -- if time gets short, the warning sounds. All matches are on the clock.

Unfortunately, this is both more expensive and requires more effort from the staff compared to just a stop watch. The ref has a remote control for the timer.
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It is not only an awesome system but it also does not have to be that expensive. Two very cheap digital displays showing a countdown from 45-0 in big red numbers would work just fine, and displays like that are worth a very small amount of money. Have them linked to a computer so a person can click to reset the clock, or add 30 seconds when a player asks for an extension.

Pool hall I played in when I was in Adealide Australia had digital score keepers for matches, the players could click on the thing to add games, the fans could easily see them. They are probably worth about as much as a cheap calculator and are extremely simple devices. Small investment that worked well.
 
I agree Celtic...

Celtic said:
I have always used caps to represent emphasis on key words or points. I know alot of people think caps = shouting, but IMO using them is certain situations make them more prone to be taken as emphasized points. Posting a whole post in all caps, shouting, posting a SINGLE word or two in the post, more of an emphasis.

It is not as easy to relay intent and emotions on the internet as it is when talking in person.
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Typically caps is only considered shouting when EVERYTHING IS CAPITALIZED or when the context is obviously sarcastic and or antagonistic in nature. I believe that the ops statement that was being referred to could be considered the latter.


Otherwise in the proper context, a single or a couple of words in Caps would be considered added emphasis....


Jaden
 
Celtic said:
I have always used caps to represent emphasis on key words or points. I know alot of people think caps = shouting, but IMO using them is certain situations make them more prone to be taken as emphasized points. Posting a whole post in all caps, shouting, posting a SINGLE word or two in the post, more of an emphasis.

It is not as easy to relay intent and emotions on the internet as it is when talking in person.
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Fortunately this forum (and many others) has the option of using boldface or italics, for added emphasis. Or underscore or JoeyA's favorite different color.

All caps is still seen as yelling or shouting.

Doesn't bother me all that much. Just trying to make it easier to understand for those who find it silly. Whether or not that is true, that doesn't make it any less the commonly thought intention.
 
i didn't want to read through the whole thread, but I was a referee at the event. The shot clock was ALWAYS an option and it was in the rules. The players knew what they were getting into and this isn't an irregular thing at big tournaments.

The tournament ended early early on monday morning... if anything, they should have started the shot clock earlier in the day on sunday.

The OP is out of line, didn't read the rules, and has no idea what he is talking about. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

If a player can't win with a shot clock, then don't play in a tournament which can implement a shot clock. That's it.

furthermore, after reading who the OP is... clearly an agenda and an emotional post. If Jeremy Jones has a problem with the way the tournament was run, he can take it up with Ken or Zach. I absolutely adore JJ, think he's a hugely underrated player lately and I think he's one of the best texas players of the last 20 years, and he's a class act. The fact is that you don't know what you are talking about and your bias is clouding your judgment.

I personally loved reffing the tournament on Friday and pray that we get more events like it in the area... this was like going to the masters and holding up a "quiet" sign for Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus for me. Absolutely amazing that I got to shake the hand of Hatch, Pagulayan, Dechaine, Charlie Williams and yes, even Earl.. and watch these guys do what they do from the very best seat in the house.
 
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Being a strong advocate of the shot clock I was interested to read this thread even if some people got carried away with the subject of caps.

Late finishes in any tournament are the result of either the organisers not doing their maths and allowing sufficient time or more likely, the fault of slow players.

I have witnessed in a World Championship, two very famous players taking over 3.5 hours to finish a race to 8 in 8 Ball. I can't remember now what the final result was but if it was 8 - 7, that is a ridiculous 14 minutes on average for each rack.

The idea of not calling a warning if a player is on his back stroke is also ridiculous in my opinion.

The use of the computerised shot clock as used by the best tournament organisers in the world, Matchroom Sport, is the answer to this.
The computer doesnt see if someone is on his backstroke and sounds the warning at the predetermined time.

One last thing, referees are the unsung heroes, they do a thankless task, being on their feet for hours on end and in general get no respect from anyone.
In any decision they make or dont make, they will always upset 50% of the players involved
 
Da Bank said:
i didn't want to read through the whole thread, but I was a referee at the event. The shot clock was ALWAYS an option and it was in the rules. The players knew what they were getting into and this isn't an irregular thing at big tournaments.

The tournament ended early early on monday morning... if anything, they should have started the shot clock earlier in the day on sunday.

The OP is out of line, didn't read the rules, and has no idea what he is talking about. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

If a player can't win with a shot clock, then don't play in a tournament which can implement a shot clock. That's it.

furthermore, after reading who the OP is... clearly an agenda and an emotional post. If Jeremy Jones has a problem with the way the tournament was run, he can take it up with Ken or Zach. I absolutely adore JJ, think he's a hugely underrated player lately and I think he's one of the best texas players of the last 20 years, and he's a class act. The fact is that you don't know what you are talking about and your bias is clouding your judgment.

I personally loved reffing the tournament on Friday and pray that we get more events like it in the area... this was like going to the masters and holding up a "quiet" sign for Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus for me. Absolutely amazing that I got to shake the hand of Hatch, Pagulayan, Dechaine, Charlie Williams and yes, even Earl.. and watch these guys do what they do from the very best seat in the house.
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You know what?.. You people have a ton of ***king nerve.. After being threatened, misquoted, lied to repeatedly, and accused of yelling (totally ridiculous), I find it pretty ***king hilarious that people would say I was out of line in this thread.. The plain, simple fact of the matter is, the shot-clock was not used, AT ALL, during the entire event, up until the final 2 matches.. That is completely ridiculous..

It doesn't matter if you think I have an agenda, or if I'm biased.. Those are the facts.. So, in other words, the tournament was run one particular way for 2 and a half days, and then a completely different way for the finals, basically.. That's not fair to the players involved who have to change the approach that had been successful for 95% of the tournament.. It's wrong, period..
 
Slow Play..

And this is something I have never understood.. How can someone playing more methodically get you out of stroke?.. That's just weak minded nonsense.. If you cannot control your pace at the table, that's your fault, not your opponent's.. This goes back to the yelling thing.. You control what and how you read something, unlike if someone id actually yelling at you..

I can understand how slow play frustrates schedules, and I have no problem with a shot clock.. It's the arbitrary enforcement of it that is beyond ridiculous.. Once again, this is very essence of the game, breaking down your opponent.. And if a tournament is gonna not use a shot clock for 90% of the tournament, they shouldn't whip it out for the last 10%..
 
You obviously won't be satisfied no matter what responses are given here.

What do you want? Mike and everyone involved in the tournament cheated. Your brother should've won. Happy?
 
Teddydog said:
You know what?.. You people have a ton of ***king nerve.. After being threatened, misquoted, lied to repeatedly, and accused of yelling (totally ridiculous), I find it pretty ***king hilarious that people would say I was out of line in this thread.. The plain, simple fact of the matter is, the shot-clock was not used, AT ALL, during the entire event, up until the final 2 matches.. That is completely ridiculous..

It doesn't matter if you think I have an agenda, or if I'm biased.. Those are the facts.. So, in other words, the tournament was run one particular way for 2 and a half days, and then a completely different way for the finals, basically.. That's not fair to the players involved who have to change the approach that had been successful for 95% of the tournament.. It's wrong, period..
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Drew,
I just don't understand how you believe that all of this carrying on is somehow going to be beneficial to Jeremy. Jeremy is a great player and not the kind of player to give something like this as much attention that you are giving it. By now, Jeremy has probably dealt with the loss in his own personal way. learned what he needed to learn, and has moved forward in his mind towards the next tournament. Constantly keeping this match and its outcome in the forefront damages that process. I know that he's your brother and you are upset, but you'd be doing everybody (including Jeremy) a big favor by letting it go.
 
Celtic said:
I have always used caps to represent emphasis on key words or points. I know alot of people think caps = shouting, but IMO using them is certain situations make them more prone to be taken as emphasized points. Posting a whole post in all caps, shouting, posting a SINGLE word or two in the post, more of an emphasis.

It is not as easy to relay intent and emotions on the internet as it is when talking in person.
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Exactly. That's what I was trying to say but you said it better.
 
I've gotta say, I don't think Drew is doing JJ any favors here.. JJ is a big boy and can speak for himself.. I've seen him play live many times and he has always been very professional on and off the table.

I'm pretty sure he can handle the situation and speak his own mind if necessary.. I don't thing the OP is going to accept what anyone here has to say.. Some people are impossible to please and choose to believe they are right no matter what evidence is presented.. I believe this is such a case!
 
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