Cheap sets to figure out his speed, that work?

decent dennis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gonna try to keep this short. A nice guy I kinda trust who is an okay player but not a strong player ( I’m guessing he’s never ran a 3 pack in his life but I’ve seen him run 15 balls in rotation on a 9’. Anyway he calls me and tells me about a guy looking for action. This unknown guy will play last pocket 8ball on a barbox but for at least 5k. He said there’s no limit how much he’ll play for. Somehow there’s no video of this guy shooting anywhere online and there’s no last name. So I ask this pal about that guy and he says he’s unbelievable. Really really strong player. Whatever that means. ( he barey speaks English so couldnt ask specifics ). So my question if I talk him into some cheap sets is there a way I’ll figure out his speed? Say I appear out of nowhere and ask for a 10 dollar game or 50 dollar race to 3. How much is it gonna cost to figure out his speed? I dont want to lose 500 to win 5000. Nobody I know have heard of this guy and nobody wants to drive for 2 hours to check him out. I’m thinking about playing him or backing a stronger friend of mine ( 725 fargo ). What’s the best way to do this? A few buds told me go play him for 50 bucks and come back and tell me about it or shoot it on hidden video. The one thing I can tell for sure is that it’s real and he’s not a gang banger but an actual pool player looking for action.

You really don't want to lose 500 to win 5000?
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Do you really think you will tell how good he is by playing cheap?
When he misses you don’t know if he is stalling or missing and you will not see
His best strategy moves
Jmho
Icbw
 

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
Wow, where do I start.

*A nice guy I kinda trust

*This unknown guy will play last pocket 8ball on a barbox but for at least 5k. He said there’s no limit how much he’ll play for.
Money check + put it up = we're all good here.

*Say I appear out of nowhere and ask for a 10 dollar game or 50 dollar race to 3. How much is it gonna cost to figure out his speed?

How about you just offer a game instead of rewriting the detective book. I just happen to appear out of nowhere and ask for a game. C'mon man.

*I dont want to lose 500 to win 5000
Really?

*Nobody I know have heard of this guy and nobody wants to drive for 2 hours to check him out.

Money check = good, got a guy on the way. Simple.

*A few buds told me go play him for 50 bucks and come back and tell me about it or shoot it on hidden video

Hidden video, that's the lamest crap I've ever heard. Just say you don't want to play, sounds like you want to make 100% sure you have the best of it as opposed to gambling.

*

Gonna try to keep this short. A nice guy I kinda trust who is an okay player but not a strong player ( I’m guessing he’s never ran a 3 pack in his life but I’ve seen him run 15 balls in rotation on a 9’. Anyway he calls me and tells me about a guy looking for action. This unknown guy will play last pocket 8ball on a barbox but for at least 5k. He said there’s no limit how much he’ll play for. Somehow there’s no video of this guy shooting anywhere online and there’s no last name. So I ask this pal about that guy and he says he’s unbelievable. Really really strong player. Whatever that means. ( he barey speaks English so couldnt ask specifics ). So my question if I talk him into some cheap sets is there a way I’ll figure out his speed? Say I appear out of nowhere and ask for a 10 dollar game or 50 dollar race to 3. How much is it gonna cost to figure out his speed? I dont want to lose 500 to win 5000. Nobody I know have heard of this guy and nobody wants to drive for 2 hours to check him out. I’m thinking about playing him or backing a stronger friend of mine ( 725 fargo ). What’s the best way to do this? A few buds told me go play him for 50 bucks and come back and tell me about it or shoot it on hidden video. The one thing I can tell for sure is that it’s real and he’s not a gang banger but an actual pool player looking for action.
 

Bic D

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It just doesn't make sense. The guy wants to play a single game for 10K or a race for 5k and you ask for $20 a game and he says....sure?

Very fishy
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
It just doesn't make sense. The guy wants to play a single game for 10K or a race for 5k and you ask for $20 a game and he says....sure?

Very fishy

I’ll bet 5-10k that mystery man loses overall in the $20 games. I’m going way out on a limb here.
 

jimmyg

Mook! What's a Mook?
Silver Member
I doubt he plays better than a 725, so I'd put my buddy in the box. But I'd see if he's willing to play regular 8 ball. Last pocket 8-ball is a gaff game. They're gonna soft break and move on you, not try to runout. So unless you're really familiar with that game, you're not gonna win even if you're 100 points better than him. You will get out-moved. It's like playing 1 pocket for the first time against a player who has been playing for years. You may shoot straighter and move the cue ball better, but if you don't know the moves it won't matter. If you/your buddy are really good last pocket 8-ball players, than yeah just try him I guess.

True...only played it once, but got whipped by someone who I could have given the 7 to in nine ball or 50 to 75 in straight pool..
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Ask James Aranas how playing a guy last pocket(or back pocket) cant remember for sure worked out for him at the Expo last year.

It's a completely different game and if you or your pro friends dont play it you cant win.

Hmmm... Maybe I have just never played a top flight last pocket 8 ball player? To me, it was always simple. Break like a demon, make a ball, and have your pattern in your head before you shoot the first shot. Last pocket 8 ball is not an especially hard game to run out in? Just pay attention to your patterns.

And if they soft break? Heh.

I posted a story in Jay Helfert's "best shots" thread of a dude that started doing that to me playing last pocket 8 ball on a 9 footer back in Tacoma 20 years ago, leaving one dead straight in shot in the corner, plus a solid 14 ball cluster. This dude literally ROLLED the CB into the 1 ball on the break.

He got ran out on, and then pulled up. Heck, even if I did need to play off a soft break, I like my chances, as tactics and strategic play is by far the strongest part of my game.

If a player significantly better than me wants to give up some of his equity by soft breaking and jacking off playing safes for a half hour? I am game for that. My style of playing clusterfook games of 8 ball has always included really focusing on patterns that'll allow stuff like banking a ball 3/4 rails to clear a cluster, while pinning the opponent in an area where he can't make a ball. I am not afraid of ANYONE who doesn't run out on the first inning in 8 ball, any form.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hmmm... Maybe I have just never played a top flight last pocket 8 ball player? To me, it was always simple. Break like a demon, make a ball, and have your pattern in your head before you shoot the first shot. Last pocket 8 ball is not an especially hard game to run out in? Just pay attention to your patterns.

And if they soft break? Heh.

I posted a story in Jay Helfert's "best shots" thread of a dude that started doing that to me playing last pocket 8 ball on a 9 footer back in Tacoma 20 years ago, leaving one dead straight in shot in the corner, plus a solid 14 ball cluster. This dude literally ROLLED the CB into the 1 ball on the break.

He got ran out on, and then pulled up. Heck, even if I did need to play off a soft break, I like my chances, as tactics and strategic play is by far the strongest part of my game.

If a player significantly better than me wants to give up some of his equity by soft breaking and jacking off playing safes for a half hour? I am game for that. My style of playing clusterfook games of 8 ball has always included really focusing on patterns that'll allow stuff like banking a ball 3/4 rails to clear a cluster, while pinning the opponent in an area where he can't make a ball. I am not afraid of ANYONE who doesn't run out on the first inning in 8 ball, any form.

I guess you play better than Aranas then....its too bad he doesn't know how to play 8 ball.:rolleyes:
 

Mustardeer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It just doesn't make sense. The guy wants to play a single game for 10K or a race for 5k and you ask for $20 a game and he says....sure?

Very fishy

The middle man said sure. I never met/spoken to the player. I have a feeling he wants to bet really high but cant find action like that. He also likes shooting pool and plays anyone for any amount including cheap sets. I might be wrong that’s the vibe I get... A close friend will play 20 a game if he’s in the mood but he also plays short races for 500 and a grand all the time. So it’s not that weird.
 

Mustardeer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bring 725 friend and have 500 in hundreds. Say let's play one game for 500 bank last pocket, flash the 5 see if his eyes light up.


I really like this actually. If my friend loses the flip they guy might do like a one pocket break and we’ll be there for half and hour but for 500 why not. I won’t be the first one to flash money though.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Gold Member
Silver Member
I really like this actually. If my friend loses the flip they guy might do like a one pocket break and we’ll be there for half and hour but for 500 why not. I won’t be the first one to flash money though.

Your post and the one you quoted really have me doubting you(or the person you quoted) know anything about gambling.

How are you not going to show money? Are you not going to post? Is your opponent not going to post?

I wish I could watch this disaster unfold, except the part of having to testify in court as a witness when this goes severely sideways.
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
I guess you play better than Aranas then....its too bad he doesn't know how to play 8 ball.:rolleyes:

Some players rely more on making balls than the intellectual side of the game. There's a reason why every other pro in the world REALLY needed their break to be working when they played Efren.

Do you have a link to a video of that game? I'd love to take a gander and come back with my thoughts..

*Edited*

Well, I went and found this video of Aranas playing last pocket 8 ball, and strictly from the first game, it's pretty darned bad. A few points.

Given the position of the 8 ball.. The natural out pocket is the bottom left, leading from the 11. WAY easier than playing to the upper left pocket, and if I am seeing it correctly, there's no chance of a scratch in the side from that direction, if he gets thin. The 12 ball was always gonna be the problem, as it sits closer to center table, and the 11 ball is in the path of a two rail position to center table. The pattern was to get thick on the 10 and play the 12 ball in the lower left pocket, and then move up table and mop up, transitioning to the 11 ball, most probably from the 14, but any number of patterns got him there from any of the remaining three balls that were uptable.

The rest of that game was okay, but never should have gotten to that point. I am not saying I shoot anywhere as straight as Aranas, but he didn't seem to recognize the danger of that 12, and worked towards the wrong out pocket. Some players have different talents for different games. Last pocket 8 ball rewards a deeper analysis of the layout than most games.

Game 2 in the video? The pattern he got out on, was the same he should have used in the first game to get out first try.
 
Last edited:

nodeflection

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your post and the one you quoted really have me doubting you(or the person you quoted) know anything about gambling.

How are you not going to show money? Are you not going to post? Is your opponent not going to post?

I wish I could watch this disaster unfold, except the part of having to testify in court as a witness when this goes severely sideways.

Whats your answer gambling guru almighty? It's a silly proposition all the way around. What is the disaster proof plan you have?

People with 10k to move around wont look twice at 500.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Gold Member
Silver Member
Some players rely more on making balls than the intellectual side of the game. There's a reason why every other pro in the world REALLY needed their break to be working when they played Efren.

Do you have a link to a video of that game? I'd love to take a gander and come back with my thoughts..

Just sayin.....somehow I doubt a guy that is #16 FR in the world doesn't have a mental game.

If I remember correctly you are not helpless on the table, but you take a guy who is inferior in every way to a top pro except for the fact he knows the game on the highest level and you've got yourself more than you bargained for.

I think somebody posted the video yesterday, I watched it live, maybe I missed something.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Gold Member
Silver Member
Whats your answer gambling guru almighty? It's a silly proposition all the way around. What is the disaster proof plan you have?

People with 10k to move around wont look twice at 500.

It's your business, do what you want.

Nobody that gambles or knows anything about it would be on a forum full of people looking to make a big score talking about it.

How do you know your opponent isn't on here? If he is, you just told them your buddy's speed - 725. How do you think that will work out for you?

Again, you are playing a game neither you or your friend know how to play. You are also playing somebody you don't know.

How do you know you are walking into a gun in your face?

I'm not trying to be an ass, you just haven't thought this through and I dont believe(from your own posts) that you know what to do .

Again, good luck and be as safe as you can.
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Just sayin.....somehow I doubt a guy that is #16 FR in the world doesn't have a mental game.

If I remember correctly you are not helpless on the table, but you take a guy who is inferior in every way to a top pro except for the fact he knows the game on the highest level and you've got yourself more than you bargained for.

I think somebody posted the video yesterday, I watched it live, maybe I missed something.

Oh, no doubt, no doubt. Just saying, from the video, I would feel 100% comfortable matching up with Aranas using Fargorate Fairmatch. That dude was 654, and getting 9-6. At 580, if Arans wanted to try to give me, say 9-4, I'd empty out. Against Orcollo, I'd not bet over about $500, lol, and I'd feel like I'd have to shoot very well to win that. Orcollo will put packages together, last pocket or not.

And I was not referring to his "mental" game. More like his "thinking" game. As in, what to do when the table is a mess, and you have to reduce the game down to the salient important points, i.e. "Without some hero shot, the 8 ball only goes comfortably to the corner from a setup off the 5 into the same corner. I don't have an out.... Let me play this ball in such a way to get to the 13 on this particular angle to bump the 13 in front of the 5, and freeze the cue ball to the rail."

That sorta stuff. Aranas has proven to be a very fine shotmaker, with good position, as compared to the pro field, but not in Efren, Orcollo, or Pagulayan's league...
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
middle man

The middle man has pretty much already told the story. He didn't ask you for a little piece of the winnings for steering. He said the guy would play for twenty a game without consulting him. A person that won't play for less than five thousand a set is cool with twenty a game?? The middle man knows that without asking when you are the fish they are trying to get into 5K action?

There is fixing to be an exchange: When the man with the money meets the man with experience the man that had the money leaves with experience and the man that had the experience to begin with leaves with the money.

I don't believe it is going to work out but try to get your 725 in for two-fifty or less for a race to five or twenty or fifty a game even better. I agree with somebody else that the odds are about one in a thousand that you have had a pilgrim with a pile of money dumped in your lap. Why isn't your middle man after the other guy's money himself?

If you are gonna flash a little money go with a St Louis bankroll. A few hundreds on the outside, maybe in the middle so they show when you unfold it then if you need smaller bills fish around in another pocket to come up with some twenties looking like you had broken a hundred earlier. Even if he thinks most of that roll might be one dollar bills he can't be sure. Don't give anyone a chance to bump the roll while you are holding it.

Rating a person's speed is more art than science. Watch how he is missing balls or missing shape. Most importantly, watch how he moves around the table. If he is playing a Fargo 600 game but moving around the table like Gene Kelly, be afraid, be very afraid!:wink::wink:

Not my first rodeo or the first of other people posting in this thread. All indications so far are that this is a set-up and you are the one they are fishing for. If the mystery player will play cheap and stalls for small money you may be able to take them for a couple three hundred or so while they are throwing chum in the water. One of my fondest memories is of a night I did that to a would be hustler.

Notice that nobody in this thread has told you to man up and wade in there for five or ten grand. You need to be toting fifteen minimum to play for five, preferably at least twenty-five. I don't think it likely but the real score they are after may not be on the table. If you or your 725 friend play for five gees or more you may want to have a couple three people backing your play too. I see way too much potential downside to playing somebody with no last name for real money.

(I had a second thought before posting: If he will play for twenty or fifty a game you might as well get in the box. If he still hopes to get you in a 5G game he can't win cheap. You will be shooting fish in a barrel!)

Hu
 

nodeflection

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's your business, do what you want.

Nobody that gambles or knows anything about it would be on a forum full of people looking to make a big score talking about it.

How do you know your opponent isn't on here? If he is, you just told them your buddy's speed - 725. How do you think that will work out for you?

Again, you are playing a game neither you or your friend know how to play. You are also playing somebody you don't know.

How do you know you are walking into a gun in your face?

I'm not trying to be an ass, you just haven't thought this through and I dont believe(from your own posts) that you know what to do .

Again, good luck and be as safe as you can.

Hahah nice. OK man. I don't know anyone involved here. Obviously would be easier in person to make an educated guess on what the real situation is and iron out 20 more details for a large bet. Worried about random action getting killed online is not a concern for this post. I play last pocket pretty strong. Guns shoot people who are out of line. I know plenty, keep bringing up Aranas like it matters, you said things contradicting the assertions. Trying to gauge a guy calling out a 10k game is what we are talking about. The chance has to be small that it is a real bet. My advice is good to see if he is for real at all and shouldn't cause any problems. No way there is one way to go about this that is %100 safe.
 

highkarate

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh, no doubt, no doubt. Just saying, from the video, I would feel 100% comfortable matching up with Aranas using Fargorate Fairmatch. That dude was 654, and getting 9-6. At 580, if Arans wanted to try to give me, say 9-4, I'd empty out. Against Orcollo, I'd not bet over about $500, lol, and I'd feel like I'd have to shoot very well to win that. Orcollo will put packages together, last pocket or not.

That's not the video he was referring to. He was talking about a video (i've seen it i think it's on roy's fb) of Aranas getting completely out-moved playing last pocket on a bar table against a guy who just soft broke and moved. Aranas got drilled because he tried to get out every rack and it just wasn't doable. Last pocket is a total gaffe game when played like this, and even though you think you can just run out on his nonsense, it slowly sets in that you can't. Or at least not a high enough % of the time to win the set.

There was a random eastern European guy who came into our pool hall, where there are some legitimately world class one pocket players, and beat people out of thousands playing last pocket 8 ball. Mika was hanging around at the time, and when Mika saw him he goes "oh yeah, that guy goes all over Europe beating pros at last pocket 8 ball. I wouldn't play him that game" So that should tell you something right there.
 
Top