Cheated

jmoschgat said:
Hey guys just lOoking for some thoughts here. Tonight I played in. TAP MVP tournament and made it to the finals. The guy I ended up playing is a *sshole and talks a Loud game and yells and makes a scene. Anyways. It was 2-2 race to 3 and this guy hits a shot that clearly doesn't hit a rail. He storms away from the table so I ask some people if it hit a rail, they timidly shake their heads no, and one guy tells me to ask my oppOnent. So when I did he says it hit a rail! So a few well respected people in my league say they didn't see ( presumably because theyre scared of him) so he gets the benefit of the doubt according to TAP rules. I had an easy run with ball in hand but instead I am kicking. I end up losing and start to make a small scene because I know people saw and refused to say so. Anyways I dropped of the losers bracket to make a scene. What do you guys think of this and do u see this type of cheating a lot? Just frustrated I guess because I was playing very well.
Jack
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If you are 100 percent sure he didnt hit a rail you where cheated.Next time dont ask anyone and call the foul.Guy sounds like a nit..and there are a lot of nit pool players out there to.
 
8pack said:
If you are 100 percent sure he didnt hit a rail you where cheated.Next time dont ask anyone and call the foul.Guy sounds like a nit..and there are a lot of nit pool players out there to.
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Yeah it didn't hit a rail people are just spineless
 
I saw the same problem occur at APA 9 ball playoffs today. Unfortunately both people the shooter and his opponent both believed they were right. This happens often I think. At the scene of most crimes if there are a number of eye witnesses some give totally different descriptions because they see it differently. Who is telling the truth? All of them because they are telling the truth "THEY" saw.

But yes they will always be those that cheat lie and steal, and if you were cheated I feel for you.
 
while i understand your frustration, i am of the opinion that once you shoot then you have accepted what has happened. in which case, do not complain about the outcome if it doesnt end up going your way.

you have a right to be angry, but if you're that upset about it you should have caused the "small scene" right after that foul. if you're adamant that he fouled then just say so and refuse to shoot until it is resolved. i dont think it's right to shoot and complain after since by shooting, you have accepted what has happened.

i hate when people say that the previous shooter gets the benefit of the doubt cuz there wasn't a ref to watch the shot. that's a load of crap and a weak cop out. cuz then i can just start fouling and say i didnt foul and no one can refute it cuz there is no ref. if the td didnt see the shot then flip a coin or find away to get a resolution. just saying i dont get bih cuz i didnt call a ref is stupid. a lot of the times i dont know when guys feel like miscuing or not hitting a rail after contact, should i just call a ref for all shots?
 
Ah worse things have happened. I'm just not happy people saw it and chose not to speak up in any way. They shook their heads to me that he didn't hit it then never stood up and said anything when the time arose.
 
I do agree with what was said here, but the rules do state that if he said its not a foul and its his word vs mine then the call goes to him.
 
Snapshot9 said:
You should have said after he shot, "No rail, that's a foul".
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I did. He ran away from the table so I asked everyone else and they acted like cowards and said they didnt see (after they shook their heads that he didn't hit a rail) because they're scared of him. So I asked him and he lied.
 
So, if the foul can't be agreed upon, then what happens? Is it a re-rack with the original breaker?
Karl
 
DoubleD said:
If that is the rule, then what is stopping you from kicking at the ball, picking it up, throwing it in the pocket, saying you made it and refusing to agree that you had done it?

Most rules say that a play that is 'too close to call' goes to the shooter. I have never seen any that say that all arguments go to the shooter.

Sorry to say, read my last post, but you cheated yourself. You should have not relied upon the spectators, you should have calmly explained yourself to the TD and refused to allow the balls to be moved until it was either called a foul or a re-rack was agreed to.

dld
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Great idea in theory. And the morals I have that prevent me from doing that.
 
DoubleD said:
How many of those people were referees in the match?

How many were playing the match?

The long and short of it is that spectators are, well, spectators. Spectators are not allowed to call fouls. Period.

You as a player are not allowed to use a spectator as an official unless you and your opponent agree to it BEFORE the shot.

He may be a lying asshole, but you trying to use spectators as officials is in poor form as well.

dld
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And I wasnt "trying to use spectators as refs" more asking people from his team to let him know everyone knew he was lying. In the end everyone knew and wasnt happy and he looked bad so oh well
 
You made a mistake.

As soon as he heard you asking if it was a foul he believed you didn't know for sure.

If you sound like you don't know for sure then he believes u weren't paying good enough attention and therefor you don't deserve to get ball in hand.

Next time watch closely and call foul with authority.

I actually will bring attention to the fact that it appears a rail wont be hit. Then when it doesn't I'll say, "No rail." and everyone knows.

I'll jump up while the balls are rolling and line up right with the rail and prove that I was watching closely and paying attention.

You will never hear me ask anyone if a rail was hit.

Try it.
 
Snapshot9 and Luxury are right on.

In a big match, simply say the word "foul" as soon as it happens. Don't ask the word, say it loud enough to be heard. Not a big deal to do.

You took the kick and that was that.
 
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jmoschgat said:
Hey guys just lOoking for some thoughts here. Tonight I played in. TAP MVP tournament and made it to the finals. The guy I ended up playing is a *sshole and talks a Loud game and yells and makes a scene. Anyways. It was 2-2 race to 3 and this guy hits a shot that clearly doesn't hit a rail. He storms away from the table so I ask some people if it hit a rail, they timidly shake their heads no, and one guy tells me to ask my oppOnent. So when I did he says it hit a rail! So a few well respected people in my league say they didn't see ( presumably because theyre scared of him) so he gets the benefit of the doubt according to TAP rules. I had an easy run with ball in hand but instead I am kicking. I end up losing and start to make a small scene because I know people saw and refused to say so. Anyways I dropped of the losers bracket to make a scene. What do you guys think of this and do u see this type of cheating a lot? Just frustrated I guess because I was playing very well.
Jack
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You didn't call the foul and had a hissy fit after it was all over?

How one adapts to such things and deals with such things has a great deal to do with how well they play. In other words, it is part of play. You said you were playing very well. I disagree. You were not playing very well. You failed to call a foul and by your description likely lost over it. If you call that playing well I am not sure what playing poorly means.

The guy was intimidating? Oh come on now. Was there somebody in the room with a gun? Did he have a gun? Many of us have been there. A few thousand on the table and your opponent's "associate" is a gentleman that has had no visible means of gainful employment for twenty years yet drives a new Cadillac and has a strange bulge under his coat. That's intimidating. This was not that.

Call the foul, it's part of the game. Get it done and move on according to the results/ruling. You didn't do that. You made a mistake and lost.
 
Danktrees said:
while i understand your frustration, i am of the opinion that once you shoot then you have accepted what has happened. in which case, do not complain about the outcome if it doesnt end up going your way.

you have a right to be angry, but if you're that upset about it you should have caused the "small scene" right after that foul. if you're adamant that he fouled then just say so and refuse to shoot until it is resolved. i dont think it's right to shoot and complain after since by shooting, you have accepted what has happened.

i hate when people say that the previous shooter gets the benefit of the doubt cuz there wasn't a ref to watch the shot. that's a load of crap and a weak cop out. cuz then i can just start fouling and say i didnt foul and no one can refute it cuz there is no ref. if the td didnt see the shot then flip a coin or find away to get a resolution. just saying i dont get bih cuz i didnt call a ref is stupid. a lot of the times i dont know when guys feel like miscuing or not hitting a rail after contact, should i just call a ref for all shots?
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Exactly. Doesn't do much good to complain after you lose or on azbilliards. Raise a stink before you shoot another shot.
 
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