Cheating in the 8 ball league...

jalapus logan said:
Greenie back at ya' bud!
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thanks.

You know, the red repper said I am ruining pool. Geez! I've played in leagues for over 30 years, usually twice a week. I do the state tournies, etc. If I'm ruining pool, may we all do the same.:rolleyes:

Btw, the only times I've witnessed "sandbagging" were when I was in apa for one year and once in a VNEA round robin playoff (# of games won) where a team we'd beat that year several times decided to throw their match on the other table as they could see that would keep us from winning the playoffs on our table. I quit apa to solve the first problem and we had a little "discussion" with that team ...lol... right there on the spot and it never happened again.

Jeff Livingston
 
PGHteacher said:
At the TAP nationals anyone who’s score in a single match was found to be 1.5 or 2.5 (can’t remember which) stronger than their assigned handicap they were disqualified and that match was an automatic loss. It is cheating plain and simple.
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Really? That's how to stop it?

Doesn't that kinda make playing well in a playoff a deterrent? Isn't there a way to deter sandbagging without simultaneously deterring better play?

I understand the problem, but punishing good play seems a little excessive, to me.

Jeff Livingston
 
poolguy4u said:
:confused:
There are many different strategies when playing 8 ball. Playing safe when you have a duck...is this cheating since you missed on purpose?
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I am not surprised you are :confused: playing a safe when you have a duck is not missing on purpose; I don’t think I have to diagram that out for you.

poolguy4u said:
Missing a ball on purpose to play safe...is it cheating?
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As long as you admit that was a defensive shot no it isn’t, when you lie and say you were playing the shot is when it becomes cheating.


poolguy4u said:
Missing on purpose to try and let the opponent rearrange the balls or break out your tied up balls...is this cheating?
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As long as you admit that was a defensive shot no it isn’t, when you lie and say you were playing the shot is when it becomes cheating.

poolguy4u said:
Is it cheating to play a two way shot?
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Depends on your definition, according to mine NO.

poolguy4u said:
Yes, this is strategy. Or...is this cheating?
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The rulebooks can help you answer this question.

poolguy4u said:
You can spin it any way you want. So playing a strategy is cheating?
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The rulebooks can help you answer this question.

poolguy4u said:
I used to teach people a long time ago in leagues. I used to tell people--if you are going to run more than three balls in eight ball, you better run out.

Or...make three balls then miss or play safe. I don't think this is cheating.:rolleyes:
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I have lots of blanket rules in my program but none involve “when there are ___ number of balls on the table or you have sunk ___ number of balls then you ____” and I am pretty sure any decent instructor (notice I said decent and not certified) would back me up on that one. It is a lay of the table question not a # of balls question. As for the 2nd part missing and playing safe are 2 different things and in the rules (in most leagues) this is clearly written in the rulebook if in the league you are playing in it is not that is fine but in the APA, TAP and BCA this is cheating, the only way to know is not to “not think it’s cheating” it is to consult the rule book and ask the LO.
 
Scott Lee said:
Good grief Jeff...24,000 posts? You spend FAR too much time here! LOL j/k, my friend. FTR (for those of you who thought Jeff was 'endorsing sandbagging), cheffjeff is one of the good guys, who does not cheat to win, at any time.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Thanks for that nice post, Scott.

Fwiw, I just got the Sportsmanship Award last session in league. I think it was mostly because (not sure cuz I don't know the vote) I called a foul on myself in the last week that my opponent didn't even see and it cost us first place in the league.

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Really? That's how to stop it?
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You can’t stop it; it will always be there (see posts from poolguy4u)

chefjeff said:
Doesn't that kinda make playing well in a playoff a deterrent? Isn't there a way to deter sandbagging without simultaneously deterring better play?
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If you figure out a better way please contact the national leagues immediately; that may sound like a smarta$$ thing to say but I am totally serious.

chefjeff said:
I understand the problem, but punishing good play seems a little excessive, to me.

Jeff Livingston
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in excess of 2.5 is a lot of leeway if you think about it lets say they are a strong 3 (3.8) not absolutely sure how the system works but this is just an example 3.8 + 2.5=6.3 so they would have to play a match and afterward play at a 6.4 speed before being disqualified. I can pretty much say that if you play at 2.5+ your strength that “you are or have been a sandbagger”.
 
PGHteacher said:
You can’t stop it; it will always be there (see posts from poolguy4u)



If you figure out a better way please contact the national leagues immediately; that may sound like a smarta$$ thing to say but I am totally serious.



in excess of 2.5 is a lot of leeway if you think about it lets say they are a strong 3 (3.8) not absolutely sure how the system works but this is just an example 3.8 + 2.5=6.3 so they would have to play a match and afterward play at a 6.4 speed before being disqualified. I can pretty much say that if you play at 2.5+ your strength that “you are or have been a sandbagger”.
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In VNEA or BCA, I've seen no sandbagging problem in all my years of playing. But we don't count every shot and decide what type of shot it is. Maybe that makes a difference? I had the local TAP guy tell me his system is sandbag resistant. I dunno, never played in that league.

Jeff Livingston
 
cuesblues said:
In our BCA league you can only field a team with 45 or less total skill level points.
So if you have 4-9's and 1-10, you have to bring in a lower ranked player, and somebody has to sit out.
I say the team is what it is, play your best and if somebody has to sit out oh well, it just means that we are too good...:smile:
It is annoying to see teams dominate a league because they are notorious sandbaggers.
Enough to make me not want to play league, but I'm hanging in there for the team.My team couldn't make it without me, you can't leave those guys alone for minute.
Kind of like my Dachshunds...:smile:
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You hang in there for the Jack & Coke.
 
I play in the WPPL where it is divided into sections and divisions there is no such thing as sandbagging because the whole team you are playing is about the same skill level (or is supposed to be) except in very rare circumstances, the handicap system will always be more sandbag accepting; it can’t not be.
 
cuesblues said:
Sandbagging is a way of life for some teams even entire cities.
I don't sandbag however, last year at the beginning of a newly formed BCA team I was out of town, and my "co-captain" asked measureman
to miss a few shots or something...:nono::shrug::mad::thumbup2:

:nono: =big mistake, Bruce even started a thread about it

:shrug: =I was 1200 miles away and out of the room when it happened

:mad:=Bruce was really ****ing mad

:thumbup2:=I shmoozed it over when I got back into town
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I will not sand bag.




if I'm on a team you get the best I have and if it raises the handicap up so be it. IT'S A BAR TABLE LEAGUE FOR CHRISTS SAKES.
 
I feel the same way Bruce. I have called fouls on myself in tournaments, league play, and just fooling around with friends. The day I have to cheat to win a game of pool, is the day I will hang my cue up forever!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

measureman said:
I will not sand bag.




if I'm on a team you get the best I have and if it raises the handicap up so be it. IT'S A BAR TABLE LEAGUE FOR CHRISTS SAKES.
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measureman said:
I will not sand bag.




if I'm on a team you get the best I have and if it raises the handicap up so be it. IT'S A BAR TABLE LEAGUE FOR CHRISTS SAKES.
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What he said!!

So what if it costs me a rating or a point now? I'll be better in the long run, especially when I have to work harder. As long as there's a 'next level', I'll keep reaching for it.

Local A, Local Master, National A, National Master.. hell, I'm only 4 short steps away! :D

I don't practice losing. (It just comes naturally.) :eek:
 
zpele said:
Well I'm not sure where you live but in my state it is definitely illegal to video tape someone without their consent and I believe it is illegal to videotape someone without consent in most other states as well.

It is legal to video tape a public place with people in it. It is illegal to do so of one particular person as it is considered an invasion of privacy and is considered a tort of civil wrong. It also opens up the person doing the video taping and the business owner (if they knew it happend or were present when it happened) to lawsuits.

You may be confused as to something however. You are allowed to videotape someone in a public place where they have no adequate right to privacy. There is a pretty gray area concerning this however and if someone were to use it as proof against them in pool the case could very easily be made in a lawsuit against the league itself (if their handicap was raised because of the tape) as well as the poolroom owner and the person doing the taping.
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I have read this 4 times and I am still scratching my head in disbelief. What state laws are you referring to? People as a group and individuals are taped in every state with or without prior knowledge or consent in public areas every day. It is not illegal and there is no gray area.
I am thinking your are confused and it may be contagious.
 
Scott Lee said:
I feel the same way Bruce. I have called fouls on myself in tournaments, league play, and just fooling around with friends. The day I have to cheat to win a game of pool, is the day I will hang my cue up forever!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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TAP TAP TAP!

I feel the same way. How can you take any pride or joy in a game that you had to cheat at to win. I would rather lose and have my credibility than win and be known as a cheater.
 
cuesblues said:
Sandbagging is a way of life for some teams even entire cities.
I don't sandbag however, last year at the beginning of a newly formed BCA team I was out of town, and my "co-captain" asked measureman
to miss a few shots or something...:nono::shrug::mad::thumbup2:

:nono: =big mistake, Bruce even started a thread about it

:shrug: =I was 1200 miles away and out of the room when it happened

:mad:=Bruce was really ****ing mad

:thumbup2:=I shmoozed it over when I got back into town
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Ted does not sandbag. A guy once asks me "Is Ted sandbagging? I replied "No,that's how he really plays"
 
I took the summer off to play pool even.
Best thing I did for myself.
I miss some of the folks,but not the bs.
Think I'll take another sesson off.
Best of luck to the rest of you.
 
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