Check This Shot Out - Efren Who?

[Neil]

The degree of difficulty to even get a hit, let alone make it, is WAY high.

Of course it takes some luck to pot the ball but this player saw the path and nailed it.

Kickin' Chicken likes... :thumbup:

Loves!!!

best,
brian kc

Actually Brian, not true. That is, for one that uses systems. I tried it because I was very impressed with his actions throughout the shot. I could see that he was using a system, and that he never got flustered at all when he approached the table. Instead of lamenting the fact that he had a low percentage shot because he previously missed the eight ball, he took it in stride and just looked at what he had to do and carefully planned it out.

I tried it on my table, with no pressure of course, and actually made it on the third try. Systems are great! I agree that the make is a bonus, but the hit is not that hard to do if you know how to figure it out. The trick is to maintain your composure under pressure of the game and just give it your best shot.

Much can be learned from that little video clip if you pay close attention to his actions throughout the shot. You will see the signs of a champion player on that shot.

 

[12squared]

Thanks, Lenny. That was awesome!

Dave

 

[Swighey]

Was a great shot. Maybe he would have missed it 9 or more times out of 10 but that's actually what made it a great shot. Not sure what else he was supposed to do there though other than go for it. He called it right, played it right, and left it better than it could have been left.

 

[Bambu]

very cool, thanks!

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Actually Brian, not true. That is, for one that uses systems. I tried it because I was very impressed with his actions throughout the shot. I could see that he was using a system, and that he never got flustered at all when he approached the table. Instead of lamenting the fact that he had a low percentage shot because he previously missed the eight ball, he took it in stride and just looked at what he had to do and carefully planned it out.

I tried it on my table, with no pressure of course, and actually made it on the third try. Systems are great! I agree that the make is a bonus, but the hit is not that hard to do if you know how to figure it out. The trick is to maintain your composure under pressure of the game and just give it your best shot.

Much can be learned from that little video clip if you pay close attention to his actions throughout the shot. You will see the signs of a champion player on that shot.

Neil;

as you know, I'm very fond of kick shots.

Maybe I should have qualified my comment that for highly skilled players getting a good hit in this situation might be, what, 50/50? Maybe 60/40? Do you think 70/30?

The little bit of traffic after the 2nd rail had to be factored in as well as the in/out cushion influences on whitey.

Then the fact that the 8b was in space made it a somewhat more difficult target. And even if you do make contact, something still needs to get a rail for a good hit.

I know you are an advance skill player. With no pressure, you said it took you 3 attempts to make contact with the 8b. You had the luxury to dial-in on your 2nd and 3rd attempts.

This player had one chance to get it figured out and, boy did he... :thumbup:

I'm going to maintain that while certainly hittable, but with only one chance, plus the little traffic, and the 8 out where it was, this is a hard shot to get a good hit on even for skilled players with or without a system (my guess no more than 60/40) and for regular Joes, it's very low percentage to get a good hit in this spot.

I'll see what I can do, cold, in the dungeon later.

best,
brian kc

 

[pwd72s]

Glad you caught it so we could all watch. Thanks Lenny!

 

[Eric.]

This player had one chance to get it figured out and, boy did he... :thumbup:

best,
brian kc

In a nutshell, this is what counts the most. being able to do it on the 3rd try vs 10th try is much less significant or noteworthy.


Eric

 

[Neil]

Neil;

as you know, I'm very fond of kick shots.

Maybe I should have qualified my comment that for highly skilled players getting a good hit in this situation might be, what, 50/50? Maybe 60/40? Do you think 70/30?

The little bit of traffic after the 2nd rail had to be factored in as well as the in/out cushion influences on whitey.

Then the fact that the 8b was in space made it a somewhat more difficult target. And even if you do make contact, something still needs to get a rail for a good hit.

I know you are an advance skill player. With no pressure, you said it took you 3 attempts to make contact with the 8b. You had the luxury to dial-in on your 2nd and 3rd attempts.

This player had one chance to get it figured out and, boy did he... :thumbup:

I'm going to maintain that while certainly hittable, but with only one chance, plus the little traffic, and the 8 out where it was, this is a hard shot to get a good hit on even for skilled players with or without a system (my guess no more than 60/40) and for regular Joes, it's very low percentage to get a good hit in this spot.

I'll see what I can do, cold, in the dungeon later.

best,
brian kc

I was afraid some one would take what I said wrong. I did state that it was a very good shot. I only mentioned my making it vs. you stating how low percentage it was. It really isn't that low percentage to hit the ball.

Yes, to make it on the first try is fantastic. But, please, take note of what else I wrote. Look at his actions before, during, and after the shot. He stayed cool, calm, and collected throughout. His opponent looked more impressed than he did with the shot. THAT is the mental attitude one needs to apply at all times on the table.

To me, his attitude throughout was even more impressive than the shot itself. Rarely seen anymore, even by the elite. Guys with his attitude are the ones I always dreaded playing the most. They aren't likely to make too many mistakes, and when they do, it won't affect the next shot at all.

edit: I want to add something for you to think about- you talked about the traffic to consider. That is a fault many make. You only consider other balls to see if they are blocking your path. Once you see they don't, which in this case they obviously didn't block the path, you should totally dismiss them from your mind. Completely! If they aren't in your path, it doesn't matter where they are. If you think about them being somewhat close, and that you don't want to hit them, your subconscious will likely pick up on that, and force you to run into them. I hope you understand what I am saying here. It's very important in having a successful execution of the shot.

edit again: If you try this shot, it's important to NOT use much follow. Follow will lengthen the shot, and you won't come close. I used half a tip (1 1/2 mm) left and half tip high. Staying close to center ball helps keep the correct rebound angles, but you need a touch of inside to make it track correctly.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I was afraid some one would take what I said wrong. I did state that it was a very good shot. I only mentioned my making it vs. you stating how low percentage it was. It really isn't that low percentage to hit the ball.

Yes, to make it on the first try is fantastic. But, please, take note of what else I wrote. Look at his actions before, during, and after the shot. He stayed cool, calm, and collected throughout. His opponent looked more impressed than he did with the shot. THAT is the mental attitude one needs to apply at all times on the table.

To me, his attitude throughout was even more impressive than the shot itself. Rarely seen anymore, even by the elite. Guys with his attitude are the ones I always dreaded playing the most. They aren't likely to make too many mistakes, and when they do, it won't affect the next shot at all.

edit: I want to add something for you to think about- you talked about the traffic to consider. That is a fault many make. You only consider other balls to see if they are blocking your path. Once you see they don't, which in this case they obviously didn't block the path, you should totally dismiss them from your mind. Completely! If they aren't in your path, it doesn't matter where they are. If you think about them being somewhat close, and that you don't want to hit them, your subconscious will likely pick up on that, and force you to run into them. I hope you understand what I am saying here. It's very important in having a successful execution of the shot.

:thumbup:

Good Post. IMO These are the type of posts you should make instead of all the negative ones you make around certain individuals.

 

[Neil]

:thumbup:

Good Post. IMO These are the type of posts you should make instead of all the negative ones you make around certain individuals.

Rick, it's all in how you see things. The only difference in this post is that I was replying to someone other than someone you look up to. So, you actually read it, instead of dismissing it as negative.

 

[Kris_b1104]

I tried it on my table, with no pressure of course, and actually made it on the third try. Systems are great! I agree that the make is a bonus, but the hit is not that hard to do if you know how to figure it out. The trick is to maintain your composure under pressure of the game and just give it your best shot.

Can you please record yourself making this shot at least once and what system are you using? Otherwise, I think it's a tough shot that people wouldn't make 2/10 times.

 

[Neil]

Can you please record yourself making this shot at least once and what system are you using? Otherwise, I think it's a tough shot that people wouldn't make 2/10 times.

No, I won't. That would do nothing but make it about me, and that is not what I want here. Whether you want to believe I made it or not is immaterial. The glory of the shot goes to the guy that made it on the first try. I never said it wasn't a tough shot. It is a very tough shot to make. Especially on the first try.

As to what system I used, I used a combo of several. I first took the distance from the ob to the near rail, and doubled that distance out past the rail. From there, I looked down the table to about where I figured to hit the second rail to see if I was even clear for the shot or not. Seeing that I was clear, I now knew where I wanted to hit the third rail.

Now it was down to a two rail shot. The third rail being my target. For the two rail shot, I took the point from where I wanted to end up to the cb and cut that distance in half. From that halfway point, I put my cue on that point and pointing to the pocket I wanted to go around. That gave me the angle for my cue. I transferred that angle to the cb to see where to hit the first rail. Seeing that I was going into the first rail at a shallow angle, I knew that I had to adjust my target on the first rail a couple of inches closer to the pocket. From there, I shot it.

First shot had too much follow, and went long to the third rail. Second shot came very close, and third shot made it. It happens. My point was to not get flustered, and use what you know with confidence. Nothing I said should be construed to take away from what he accomplished.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Looked to me he knew exactly what he was doing. Aim tad shorter than the center diamond, brings you down 4+ diamonds from where you start on the 3rd. Hard to tell from a computer where he actually did or should hit the 1st and 3rd but he saw it for sure.

The luck was the table played to the plus 2 correctly and backed up properly too. The man know a thing or two.

Mr Kushn.

Just to be clear, when I said 'a bit lucky to have made it', I meant the ball in the pocket & not the hit.

He obviously knew what he was doing & Neil is spot on about his composure & going through the process.

Best 2 you & All,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick, it's all in how you see things. The only difference in this post is that I was replying to someone other than someone you look up to. So, you actually read it, instead of dismissing it as negative.

See... You're wrong again as you so often are.

The only man that I 'look up to' has died & been gone from here for nearly 20 centuries.

I pay you a complement & you 'attack' me.

 

[3kushn]

Can you please record yourself making this shot at least once and what system are you using? Otherwise, I think it's a tough shot that people wouldn't make 2/10 times.

There's really no need for that. The player clearly knows the plus 2 system and played it. Neil I'm sure knows it too. Placing the balls exactly in the same spot is the only key as long as the table plays to the system. I'll bet if the player intended to make the shot the balls were laying perfect. If not perfect he was simulating a good hit and I mean still playing to make. Like I said before the table played according to his calculations. He looked at it at least 4 times.

Did he not hit exactly where he laid his cue?

 

[Kris_b1104]

No, I won't. That would do nothing but make it about me, and that is not what I want here. Whether you want to believe I made it or not is immaterial. The glory of the shot goes to the guy that made it on the first try. I never said it wasn't a tough shot. It is a very tough shot to make. Especially on the first try.

As to what system I used, I used a combo of several. I first took the distance from the ob to the near rail, and doubled that distance out past the rail. From there, I looked down the table to about where I figured to hit the second rail to see if I was even clear for the shot or not. Seeing that I was clear, I now knew where I wanted to hit the third rail.

Now it was down to a two rail shot. The third rail being my target. For the two rail shot, I took the point from where I wanted to end up to the cb and cut that distance in half. From that halfway point, I put my cue on that point and pointing to the pocket I wanted to go around. That gave me the angle for my cue. I transferred that angle to the cb to see where to hit the first rail. Seeing that I was going into the first rail at a shallow angle, I knew that I had to adjust my target on the first rail a couple of inches closer to the pocket. From there, I shot it.

First shot had too much follow, and went long to the third rail. Second shot came very close, and third shot made it. It happens. My point was to not get flustered, and use what you know with confidence. Nothing I said should be construed to take away from what he accomplished.

Thanks for your in-depth explanation! Gonna try this shot tomorrow.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Glad you all enjoyed it. Andy is a solid player and very nice guy, it could not have happened to a better person.

 

[Black-Balled]

Does this mean Neil won't be editing his posts anymore?

 

[pt109]

It was a great shot....what made it a great shot?
He did it under heat...just like Efren.

I mostly come to AZ to read Black-Balled's sig lines though. :indecisive:

 

[jeffj2h]

As others have said it looks like he was using the 2-rail "Plus System" to kick 2-rails and have the CB hit the 3rd (side rail) four diamonds away from where his cue stick intersected the side rail. A very similar shot is explained at the beginning of this Dr. Dave video:

https://youtu.be/2BsOZ09Nsyg