Chicken Chit Move Or Not ?

Chickenchit Move Or Not ?

  • Chickenchit Move

    Votes: 44 28.0%
  • Legitimate Move

    Votes: 85 54.1%
  • Successful Sharking Move

    Votes: 21 13.4%
  • Other (Explain)

    Votes: 7 4.5%

  • Total voters
    157

stick8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rule

a rule is a rule!!! simple as that!! just as a STOP sign means STOP ,a law is a law!!!:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Charlie was 100 percent right. A ball is not to be considered conceded until the conceder says so!!
 

Dagwoodz

the dude abides...
Silver Member
I spent quite a bit of time around Charlie this past week, and talked to him about this. This is what he had to say about what happened, and why he did what he did. He had no doubt that Russell would have made the 10 ball with BIH. But, as Heather Bryant said in an earlier post, this is what Charlie does for a living. He literally cannot afford to make mental errors when he is playing a match. When in tournament play, Charlie does not concede anything, because in many tournaments, if you concede a game, you lose that game PLUS another. So he does not want to get into the habit of conceding ballsto opponents because it could re-enforce a bad habit which could effect his income. It had nothing to do with his respect or lack thereof for Russells game and abilities. It had everything to do with playing the game the way it was supposed to be played and playing by the rules.

Now, would I have done this, no. I would have walked up to Russell and explained to him that I don't concede balls or games, and shoot the rack out. But I'm not Hillbilly, and DON'T do this for a living. I can't fault Charlie from doing what he did at all.
 

senor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
instroke75 said:
All of the above,it was a good shark, it is a legit rule, and he is definately a chickenchit for calling it! But it is his guilt to live with.

Jeremy

Believe me, he feels no remorse. Some pool players who have spent most of their time on the road and travelling to tournaments get this paranoid attitude/justification that others will screw them given the opportunity, so they just put the move down first.
 

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
akaTrigger said:
Hillbilly had the option to say something. In some tournaments/tours it is a rule to not concede. And if you do something like Russell did, it would be a foul.

However, if it wasn't a "rule" of this tournament, seems kind of "nitpicky." I bet Russell is livid!

Not nitpicky at all.

Hey, with players at their level, winning a game even early on can really affect the outcome of the match. How many times do pros break and run 3 or 4 or more racks?
 

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
hilla_hilla said:
If I were playing another girl in a tournament, I might make her shoot the ball in too, dependent upon her skill level. If I am playing a high caliber player, I would conceed. Playing at the caliber these two players play at, it sounds like a cheap way to win to me. But that's just my opinion.

Have you never seen a pro miscue?
 

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
crawfish said:
Hey, I don't agree with what he did, or how he did it. I'm glad that wasn't me it happened to. But, you wouldn't believe the negative crap people have been sending me. Come on, you had to be there, guys. Sure, he was within the rules. But, wow. I would never pull that card. Even if it was the difference is a couple of hundred.

Actually, I might have posted it myself. I mean, he went straight to Jay. Russell was in shock. Within the rules, yes. Normal in the pool world between two good players, probably not the best way to post a win. In my opinion.

We all know that pool is not just a physical but also, perhaps primarily, a mental game.

Keeping track of all the mental stuff is part of the game.

In a tournament, it's quite possible that more is riding on the games that simply the result of a game or a match. For some people, winning or losing may be the difference between sleeping in a bed or in a car, or eating a good dinner instead of junk food.

What Charlie did was totally according to the rules and not a move. It surprises me that his opponent didn't concede the game immediately. Another mental error.

Flex
 

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
ccshrimper said:
I should have rephrased my post. I pretty much agree with crawfish's post above. With two good players unless the 10-ball is on the tit of the side pocket you just about always concede the ball unless the rules tell you not to. In my mind it was a move to get into the other guys head by making him shoot the ball, like bigtruck said it showed a lack of respect for his game.

One question Crawfish, was it rack your own? If it was loser racks and Hillbilly didn't get up to rack then it should have been obvious what was happening. It was rack your own I could see how he just assumed the ball was given.

Good lawyers will tell you to never assume anything. They call that word, assume, the "A" word...
 

crawfish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ccshrimper said:
I should have rephrased my post. I pretty much agree with crawfish's post above. With two good players unless the 10-ball is on the tit of the side pocket you just about always concede the ball unless the rules tell you not to. In my mind it was a move to get into the other guys head by making him shoot the ball, like bigtruck said it showed a lack of respect for his game.

One question Crawfish, was it rack your own? If it was loser racks and Hillbilly didn't get up to rack then it should have been obvious what was happening. It was rack your own I could see how he just assumed the ball was given.
Yes, my dear man, it was rack your own. Make sense now to everyone?
 

crawfish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dagwoodz said:
I spent quite a bit of time around Charlie this past week, and talked to him about this. This is what he had to say about what happened, and why he did what he did. He had no doubt that Russell would have made the 10 ball with BIH. But, as Heather Bryant said in an earlier post, this is what Charlie does for a living. He literally cannot afford to make mental errors when he is playing a match. When in tournament play, Charlie does not concede anything, because in many tournaments, if you concede a game, you lose that game PLUS another. So he does not want to get into the habit of conceding ballsto opponents because it could re-enforce a bad habit which could effect his income. It had nothing to do with his respect or lack thereof for Russells game and abilities. It had everything to do with playing the game the way it was supposed to be played and playing by the rules.

Now, would I have done this, no. I would have walked up to Russell and explained to him that I don't concede balls or games, and shoot the rack out. But I'm not Hillbilly, and DON'T do this for a living. I can't fault Charlie from doing what he did at all.
So when Russell said, "Come on Charlie." And Charlie said something to the effect of "I don't have to do anything like that just to beat you." That wasn't a show of disrespect? Hey, I have known Charlie for years when he used to come up to my part of Western NC and play all of us. I have all respect for him and the way he plays. I simply didn't agree with the way this was handled. Who am I anyway? I didn't even play in the tournament. I just didn't like this situation. But, heh, it's not my situation. It was theirs. I don't agree with it, but then again, I have been known to have a word or two during a match.

Charlie, you were well within your rights to call this rule. I just didn't think between two good players at a non-televised event, someone would spot up the ten and make the other guy shoot it. That's all. It's basically none of my damn business anyway.
 

Dagwoodz

the dude abides...
Silver Member
crawfish said:
So when Russell said, "Come on Charlie." And Charlie said something to the effect of "I don't have to do anything like that just to beat you." That wasn't a show of disrespect? Hey, I have known Charlie for years when he used to come up to my part of Western NC and play all of us. I have all respect for him and the way he plays. I simply didn't agree with the way this was handled. Who am I anyway? I didn't even play in the tournament. I just didn't like this situation. But, heh, it's not my situation. It was theirs. I don't agree with it, but then again, I have been known to have a word or two during a match.

Charlie, you were well within your rights to call this rule. I just didn't think between two good players at a non-televised event, someone would spot up the ten and make the other guy shoot it. That's all. It's basically none of my damn business anyway.

I wasn't speaking at all about what Charlie might or might not have said. I was simply talking about the act of conceding or not conceding the game, and whether or not it is a chicken $hit move or not. I wasn't there at the table to hear any conversation that took place, and will not vouch one way or the other for anything that might have been said by either player. I'm not even accusing you of anything crawfish...I'm just relaying what Charlie and I talked about regarding this subject.

On a different and much lighter note, I wish I had known you were there. I tried to meet as many AZ'rs as possible, but of course, it's hard to tell who people are by trying to match a handle to someone's face you have never seen before. The only reason I was able to pick JoeyA out was because of his black POW Justis case.
 

Jimmy M.

Insomniac
Silver Member
You can't assume that someone is going to concede the game. I would always take BIH and shoot the shot there, unless my opponent stopped me. Unfortunately, it's a foul.

The only question is whether or not you feel it's chickenshit to make someone shoot BIH on the money ball. It's a player's prerogative when to concede and when not to concede so, as much as I'd like to say it was a little C.S., the person who racked the balls assuming the game was conceded to him made a mistake.
 

hillbilly

Pro Player
Appology to all...

Conversation during the match (Just so everyone knows):
Russell, "If you think you need that (the 10 ball after he fouled) you just take it"
Me, "Do you think I need that to beat you?"

Half way through the match, I appologized to Russell for our heated words and explained that I was frustrated and that I was truly sorry. I am not that type of person and I hoped he could forgive me. He did and shook my hand.

After the match was over, I appologized again and he said it was really not that big of a deal, he should known the rules.

Things are ok between us and the only reason I am explaining this is that I don't want people to read this message board and think that I am still the troubled person I used to be. I have worked very hard this past year to get my head straight after spiraling downwards as a result of my mothers death.

To all the fans who witnessed it, I appologize to you as well. I want tournaments to be enjoyable to spectators since without you guys, the sponsors would not put up the money to make those tournaments possible.
 

Bigtruck

Capt Diff Lock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Charlie

hillbilly said:
Conversation during the match (Just so everyone knows):
Russell, "If you think you need that (the 10 ball after he fouled) you just take it"
Me, "Do you think I need that to beat you?"

Half way through the match, I appologized to Russell for our heated words and explained that I was frustrated and that I was truly sorry. I am not that type of person and I hoped he could forgive me. He did and shook my hand.

After the match was over, I appologized again and he said it was really not that big of a deal, he should known the rules.

Things are ok between us and the only reason I am explaining this is that I don't want people to read this message board and think that I am still the troubled person I used to be. I have worked very hard this past year to get my head straight after spiraling downwards as a result of my mothers death.

To all the fans who witnessed it, I appologize to you as well. I want tournaments to be enjoyable to spectators since without you guys, the sponsors would not put up the money to make those tournaments possible.

Charlie,

It's great to see you posting here!! I think it would be really cool to hear about your book!

Thanks for setting the record straight! I have noticed a new level of maturity and professionalism in the last year and I think it's admirable.

Sincerely,

Ray
 

crawfish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hillbilly said:
Conversation during the match (Just so everyone knows):
Russell, "If you think you need that (the 10 ball after he fouled) you just take it"
Me, "Do you think I need that to beat you?"

Half way through the match, I appologized to Russell for our heated words and explained that I was frustrated and that I was truly sorry. I am not that type of person and I hoped he could forgive me. He did and shook my hand.

After the match was over, I appologized again and he said it was really not that big of a deal, he should known the rules.

Things are ok between us and the only reason I am explaining this is that I don't want people to read this message board and think that I am still the troubled person I used to be. I have worked very hard this past year to get my head straight after spiraling downwards as a result of my mothers death.

To all the fans who witnessed it, I appologize to you as well. I want tournaments to be enjoyable to spectators since without you guys, the sponsors would not put up the money to make those tournaments possible.
Russell said it was his fault, but he still hated it went down like that. I'm glad you guys talked it out.
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
SmorgassBored made me do it.

The purpose of my post is only to provide additional information and to inquire about that information.

During the tournament, I had more than one person say to me that after Charlie scratched on the nine ball, he said, "NICE GAME". Well, I didn't mention anything about that because it was just some scuttlebutt floating around the tournament room and my mind was a blur anyway. After the tournament or maybe close to the end of the tournament, well at least some time during the time I was in North Carolina, I happened to see Russell Sasser standing in front of me and I asked Russell if Charlie had said "NICE GAME" after scratching on the nine ball. Russell said Charlie did in fact say that and I said nothing more about the problem.

I called Doug and he started talking about, that I was 'HONOR BOUND" to post in this thread and so I conceded and am making this post.

I know this may create additional questions and statements but that is what this forum is all about.

Before any of you say, "Well, if Charlie said that, then he conceded the game"; you should realize that if he did say that he very well could have said that in a different tone of voice than what would lead you to believe that he was conceding the game. I'm not making excuses for Charlie but it is very possible that he said, "NICE GAME", in a sarcastic manner referring to his scratch on the nine ball.

It is not likely that I would have called the tournament director over but the bottom line regardless of whether Charlie said NICE GAME or not, he was well within his rights to call over the tournament director and state the case. If I were feeding my family from the winnings of the pool tournament, I may have with deep regret, have done the same thing.

JoeyA
 

!Smorgass Bored

Hump ? What HUMP ?
Gold Member
While it's true that there are different connotations and inflections in the way a person might say something, if I were playing 10 ball in a 'rack your own' tournament and my opponent made the 9 and scratched, leaving only the 10 ball on the table and me with b.i.h and he said "Nice Game"........I would assume that the game were over and that I may go ahead and rack the balls.

I don't have a horse in this race, as I've never met Russell and have met Charlie on numerous occasions and like him. I sat and spoke with him at 2 Sisters Poolroom in Slidell,LA when he and Rob Saez came in 1st & 2nd.
I've sat at his player table during tournaments and he showed me how to hold the cue for better breaks, demonstrating and explaining over and over at Planet 9-Ball. He has always been cordial and non-confrontational when I've seen him.

I encouraged JoeyA. to post what Russell had told him, because I thought it was germane to this thread.

Doug

*germane: adjective; being both relevant and appropriate to the topic at hand

**Edited: to move Slidell back into Louisiana where it belongs (and kill off a 'Sister'). The lack of edible food and proper quantities of water are clearly having an effect on my mental state.


.
 
Last edited:

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I want some!!

Smorgass Bored said:
..... I sat and spoke with him at 3 Sisters Poolroom in Slidell,MS when he and Rob Saez came in 1st & 2nd. ....

Doug


Dang Doug, you have moved Slidell to Mississippi and added another sister at the pool hall. I don't know what the heck they are giving you for med's but all I can say is I want some too!

Happy turkey day. Hope you get plenty of spice 'cause I know you will be light on turkey and trimmings.

Hu
 

FAST_N_LOOSE

<--THE AMAZING JESSE JANE
Silver Member
perfectpocketz said:
Hillbilly is a good friend and a nice guy. When you're under the pressure of a tournament match, with short races every game becomes important. I wouldn't think Charlie was trying to pull any moves, if he wanted to give the 10-ball up, he would've raked the ball himself.

You never touch the balls playing until your opponent rakes the ball or says that's good, no matter where the ball is setting.

Bottom line, Charlie was pissed that he scratched on the 10-ball, and didn't give it up.
Russell should've just shot the 10-ball in the pocket, knowing Charlie was hot.
Believe me I see Russell's point as well, and Charlie should've over looked him raking the 10.

It's truly a tough call either way when other players are giving up balls at the same time you make a good player shoot the 10-ball with ball-n-hand.

Mark Gregory

I TOTALLY AGREE.

THE BALL SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT UNLESS CHARLIE WAS THE ONE RAKING.
 
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