instroke75 said:All of the above,it was a good shark, it is a legit rule, and he is definately a chickenchit for calling it! But it is his guilt to live with.
Jeremy
akaTrigger said:Hillbilly had the option to say something. In some tournaments/tours it is a rule to not concede. And if you do something like Russell did, it would be a foul.
However, if it wasn't a "rule" of this tournament, seems kind of "nitpicky." I bet Russell is livid!
hilla_hilla said:If I were playing another girl in a tournament, I might make her shoot the ball in too, dependent upon her skill level. If I am playing a high caliber player, I would conceed. Playing at the caliber these two players play at, it sounds like a cheap way to win to me. But that's just my opinion.
crawfish said:Hey, I don't agree with what he did, or how he did it. I'm glad that wasn't me it happened to. But, you wouldn't believe the negative crap people have been sending me. Come on, you had to be there, guys. Sure, he was within the rules. But, wow. I would never pull that card. Even if it was the difference is a couple of hundred.
Actually, I might have posted it myself. I mean, he went straight to Jay. Russell was in shock. Within the rules, yes. Normal in the pool world between two good players, probably not the best way to post a win. In my opinion.
ccshrimper said:I should have rephrased my post. I pretty much agree with crawfish's post above. With two good players unless the 10-ball is on the tit of the side pocket you just about always concede the ball unless the rules tell you not to. In my mind it was a move to get into the other guys head by making him shoot the ball, like bigtruck said it showed a lack of respect for his game.
One question Crawfish, was it rack your own? If it was loser racks and Hillbilly didn't get up to rack then it should have been obvious what was happening. It was rack your own I could see how he just assumed the ball was given.
Flex said:Not nitpicky at all.
Hey, with players at their level, winning a game even early on can really affect the outcome of the match.
Yes, my dear man, it was rack your own. Make sense now to everyone?ccshrimper said:I should have rephrased my post. I pretty much agree with crawfish's post above. With two good players unless the 10-ball is on the tit of the side pocket you just about always concede the ball unless the rules tell you not to. In my mind it was a move to get into the other guys head by making him shoot the ball, like bigtruck said it showed a lack of respect for his game.
One question Crawfish, was it rack your own? If it was loser racks and Hillbilly didn't get up to rack then it should have been obvious what was happening. It was rack your own I could see how he just assumed the ball was given.
So when Russell said, "Come on Charlie." And Charlie said something to the effect of "I don't have to do anything like that just to beat you." That wasn't a show of disrespect? Hey, I have known Charlie for years when he used to come up to my part of Western NC and play all of us. I have all respect for him and the way he plays. I simply didn't agree with the way this was handled. Who am I anyway? I didn't even play in the tournament. I just didn't like this situation. But, heh, it's not my situation. It was theirs. I don't agree with it, but then again, I have been known to have a word or two during a match.Dagwoodz said:I spent quite a bit of time around Charlie this past week, and talked to him about this. This is what he had to say about what happened, and why he did what he did. He had no doubt that Russell would have made the 10 ball with BIH. But, as Heather Bryant said in an earlier post, this is what Charlie does for a living. He literally cannot afford to make mental errors when he is playing a match. When in tournament play, Charlie does not concede anything, because in many tournaments, if you concede a game, you lose that game PLUS another. So he does not want to get into the habit of conceding ballsto opponents because it could re-enforce a bad habit which could effect his income. It had nothing to do with his respect or lack thereof for Russells game and abilities. It had everything to do with playing the game the way it was supposed to be played and playing by the rules.
Now, would I have done this, no. I would have walked up to Russell and explained to him that I don't concede balls or games, and shoot the rack out. But I'm not Hillbilly, and DON'T do this for a living. I can't fault Charlie from doing what he did at all.
crawfish said:So when Russell said, "Come on Charlie." And Charlie said something to the effect of "I don't have to do anything like that just to beat you." That wasn't a show of disrespect? Hey, I have known Charlie for years when he used to come up to my part of Western NC and play all of us. I have all respect for him and the way he plays. I simply didn't agree with the way this was handled. Who am I anyway? I didn't even play in the tournament. I just didn't like this situation. But, heh, it's not my situation. It was theirs. I don't agree with it, but then again, I have been known to have a word or two during a match.
Charlie, you were well within your rights to call this rule. I just didn't think between two good players at a non-televised event, someone would spot up the ten and make the other guy shoot it. That's all. It's basically none of my damn business anyway.
hillbilly said:Conversation during the match (Just so everyone knows):
Russell, "If you think you need that (the 10 ball after he fouled) you just take it"
Me, "Do you think I need that to beat you?"
Half way through the match, I appologized to Russell for our heated words and explained that I was frustrated and that I was truly sorry. I am not that type of person and I hoped he could forgive me. He did and shook my hand.
After the match was over, I appologized again and he said it was really not that big of a deal, he should known the rules.
Things are ok between us and the only reason I am explaining this is that I don't want people to read this message board and think that I am still the troubled person I used to be. I have worked very hard this past year to get my head straight after spiraling downwards as a result of my mothers death.
To all the fans who witnessed it, I appologize to you as well. I want tournaments to be enjoyable to spectators since without you guys, the sponsors would not put up the money to make those tournaments possible.
Russell said it was his fault, but he still hated it went down like that. I'm glad you guys talked it out.hillbilly said:Conversation during the match (Just so everyone knows):
Russell, "If you think you need that (the 10 ball after he fouled) you just take it"
Me, "Do you think I need that to beat you?"
Half way through the match, I appologized to Russell for our heated words and explained that I was frustrated and that I was truly sorry. I am not that type of person and I hoped he could forgive me. He did and shook my hand.
After the match was over, I appologized again and he said it was really not that big of a deal, he should known the rules.
Things are ok between us and the only reason I am explaining this is that I don't want people to read this message board and think that I am still the troubled person I used to be. I have worked very hard this past year to get my head straight after spiraling downwards as a result of my mothers death.
To all the fans who witnessed it, I appologize to you as well. I want tournaments to be enjoyable to spectators since without you guys, the sponsors would not put up the money to make those tournaments possible.
Smorgass Bored said:..... I sat and spoke with him at 3 Sisters Poolroom in Slidell,MS when he and Rob Saez came in 1st & 2nd. ....
Doug
perfectpocketz said:Hillbilly is a good friend and a nice guy. When you're under the pressure of a tournament match, with short races every game becomes important. I wouldn't think Charlie was trying to pull any moves, if he wanted to give the 10-ball up, he would've raked the ball himself.
You never touch the balls playing until your opponent rakes the ball or says that's good, no matter where the ball is setting.
Bottom line, Charlie was pissed that he scratched on the 10-ball, and didn't give it up.
Russell should've just shot the 10-ball in the pocket, knowing Charlie was hot.
Believe me I see Russell's point as well, and Charlie should've over looked him raking the 10.
It's truly a tough call either way when other players are giving up balls at the same time you make a good player shoot the 10-ball with ball-n-hand.
Mark Gregory