Chinese 8 ball rules
- Thread starter lee brett
- Start date
Thanks a Bunch!
I'm curious about Chinese Eight Ball and I'm sure others are too. I didn't realize that what I know as scratch pool where you carom the object ball off of the cue ball to pocket the object ball is known as Chinese Eight Ball so that is the game I was finding rules for.
Your effort is much appreciated!
Edit: A quick reading of the rules does show a few little nuances. These are the kind of rules Earl has been advocating for years. He may or may not do well but he should love the rules.
Hu
I'm curious about Chinese Eight Ball and I'm sure others are too. I didn't realize that what I know as scratch pool where you carom the object ball off of the cue ball to pocket the object ball is known as Chinese Eight Ball so that is the game I was finding rules for.
Your effort is much appreciated!
Edit: A quick reading of the rules does show a few little nuances. These are the kind of rules Earl has been advocating for years. He may or may not do well but he should love the rules.
Hu
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Thanks for sharing, I've always enjoyed reading and learning about different versions of 8-ball
In return, I'll give you the link to the thread where I talked about the south-eastern European 8-ball rule set, which I've played by ever since I took up pool, so you can check it out if you're interested:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=374083
A quick look at the rules in lee brett's links indicates:
• It seems to be a draft of rules distributed for comment, so I don't know whether those rules are what is now being used.
• They look similar to WPA 8-Ball rules with a few differences:
- They use a "breaking line" just under 18" from the head cushion;
- They have an illegal-break rule -- at least 3 balls must either be pocketed or reach the head string;
- Pocketing the 8-ball on the break is a win.
• Note that the 8-ball is treated like the other balls for calling the shot -- no need for an explicit call if the shot is obvious.
Edit -- I just watched part of a past match; it looked like they were breaking from a normal head string rather than from a line farther back.
• It seems to be a draft of rules distributed for comment, so I don't know whether those rules are what is now being used.
• They look similar to WPA 8-Ball rules with a few differences:
- They use a "breaking line" just under 18" from the head cushion;
- They have an illegal-break rule -- at least 3 balls must either be pocketed or reach the head string;
- Pocketing the 8-ball on the break is a win.
• Note that the 8-ball is treated like the other balls for calling the shot -- no need for an explicit call if the shot is obvious.
Edit -- I just watched part of a past match; it looked like they were breaking from a normal head string rather than from a line farther back.
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I was sent the rules by Joy billiards about 6 months ago, i am not sure if they have been updated for the new event.
I guess the 8 ball on break is NOT a win in the Chinese 8 ball rules. Joy did use the "lucky 8" rule 3 or 4 years ago in their tournaments but it was changed conforming to WPA rules.
One other difference between the C8B rules and WPA is that with the current C8B rules you can only choose group by first hitting the group of object balls in an open table, meaning if you use a 1 to 9 combo to pocket the 9 after the break, it will be a loss-of-turn and the table is still open.
The rules is always changing, and it is NOT official since the chinese billards and snooker association(CBSA) rules have other set of deviations from the WPA rules and even the "official" CBSA rules are not considered canon almost everywhere.
One other difference between the C8B rules and WPA is that with the current C8B rules you can only choose group by first hitting the group of object balls in an open table, meaning if you use a 1 to 9 combo to pocket the 9 after the break, it will be a loss-of-turn and the table is still open.
The rules is always changing, and it is NOT official since the chinese billards and snooker association(CBSA) rules have other set of deviations from the WPA rules and even the "official" CBSA rules are not considered canon almost everywhere.
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These call-shot rules are superior to the WPA rules because there is absolutely no mention of the ambiguous word "obvious". Instead, it simply gives two conditions where it is required to call the ball/pocket...
1) If the first contacted ball is the planned pocketed object ball and it is banked or touches another object ball.
2) If the first contacted ball is not the planned pocketed object ball.
However, if I'm interpreting the rules correctly and I'm not missing anything, a kicked-in object ball doesn't have to be called. This allows for slop in certain cases, which IMO is a rather substantial hole in the rules.
True. I probably should not have used the word so loosely, but I just wanted to mention that the 8-ball is now treated like the other balls for purposes of calling the shot (unlike a couple years ago when Darren Appleton lost for failure to call an "obvious" 8-ball).
[But it seems like we still don't have the current, official rules!]
what kind/brend of cloth they use?
What exactly are you referring to here? Are the PDF files linked in the OP not the "current, official rules" of the tournament?
I believe there isn't such an official text of rules in any language, anywhere. The PDF files Lee provided is a translation of the proposed 2014 version at the beginning of that year. However, when they published an "official rules" before the master tour stops, a slightly older version was posted, at least they kept the players updated on the rule changes in the player meetings.
They do provide printed English version to the foreign players after their arrival. However, interperation of the rules is still up to the refs in the field. An interpreter is always needed when a dispute occur.
The C8B rules isn't mantained by an formal commitee or a board like the WPA rules. It is only used in the Joy C8B tour. Actually the name C8B is exclusively used by Joy. All other 8 ball events in China are using CBSA rule, which obstinately renamed the 8 ball playing on this type of table as The Chinese Billiards. The CBSA is the government endorsed "governing body" for cue sports in China.
There were quite a few suggestions discussed on the Joy's C8B forum, but not a single feedbacks from the "officials", typos and loopholes are still exist in the latest published rules. So again, there isn't any thing formal and polished like the WPA rules. Chinese are not very serious about rules, period.
The bottom line is, you cannot find a place to buy C8B rule book, you cannot find any authoritive answers anywhere unless you talk to Joy. Even most Joy employees don't know what rules will be in effect in the next event.
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Apparently not. See JayKidd's posts #6 and #11. Examples:
- The breaking line is not where those rules say.
- JayKidd seems to say that making the 8 on the break is not a win (those rules say it is).
- Those rules are silent as to what happens if the match time runs out and the players are tied in games.
jsp;5028983 However said:The way I understand is that Joy doesn't have sufficent resource to translate every version of the rules, so the PDF version is very old. You would be much up to date listen to Potts in his youtube video explaining the Joy's C8B rules, even that was made almost a year ago.
As to holes in their call-shot rules, the latest Chinese version clearly stated that only those first CB-OB contacts result from straight/direct shots count, so kick shots were ruled out. However, the loopholes are still exist if you don't consider jump shots as slate first kicks
AtLarge, you are always admirably meticulous.
The breaking line in the "official" CSBA rules is a line about 450mm from the top cusion. Which is aproportional to a snooker table layout. However, this rule was very very rarely enforced in tournaments in China, since the 2 diamond headstring is naturally the norm in all pool halls.
Currently, Joy's C8B rules stated clearly the 635mm from the top cusion is to be used.
There are a few other surprises in the C8B and CSBA rules that make no sense to a pool player but feel natural to a snooker player. One example, the situation when cue ball simultaneously strike two object balls. The Joy C8B rules stated that it IS a foul, say if you shot at the 1 ball and the 8 ball is very close, and the ref can rule that he think the cue ball touch 1 and 8 "at the same time" and you foul the the shot. Very strange, right? Since the same rules also stated that if the ref cannot tell which ball was touched first, the "legal" object ball is to be assumed, even stranger than the oddly grafted snooker rule.
I was wrong about the tiebreaking shootout, as it turns out, the round-robin first stage of this year's Chinese Masters has no such option, a tie is a tie, each player get 1 point, ranking within the group is point based, 3 point for a win, 1 for a tie, 0 for a loss. The second stage matches should have the tiebreaker shootout, which is just shoot an 8 ball on the middle spot 1 diamond away from the top cusion.
I see parts of the rules that have exactly the same structure as the WPA rules so it looks like the WPA rules were translated to Chinese and back to English.
I think it would have been better to use the WPA rules with some explicit exceptions rather than generate a whole new set with all the problems that can cause.
I think it would have been better to use the WPA rules with some explicit exceptions rather than generate a whole new set with all the problems that can cause.
You were absolutely right, Bob. The CSBA rules were nearly verbatim WPA rules around year 2008, however there was an movement to rebrand everything "Chinese", a deliberate attempt to diversify the rules began.
Just like you pointed out, without a through understanding of why the WPA rules were written that way, more loopholes were easily intruduced.
Just like you pointed out, without a through understanding of why the WPA rules were written that way, more loopholes were easily intruduced.
