Chuck Bobbit update

[jay helfert]

jay we have never meet but you seem to have had alot of experience with american pool and as a td with common sense etc. i cant as much as i try to put too much fault at kt's feet, why do you view kt as a leach on the pool community?

He also stiffed the players, taking 16 months to pay off his last event. And he had the money! He just decided not to pay and I doubt he would have paid anything, except he became concerned about possible criminal action against him. He could have faced 10-20 years if he had been brought into Federal Court for all the offenses he committed, like using the mail and internet to defraud.

Bottom line he got scared Quinten and decided to make a deal and pay the players piecemeal. He didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart. Trust me on that one, no matter what some people may say on here.

He has never paid off the guys who put $2,000 into "Qualifiers" for non existent events. Fraud at best, criminal at worst.

 

[av84fun]

Noble sentiments Smokey. Often "forgive and forget" is the correct thing to do. BUT the INTENT of the wrongdoer is what should motivate the response to his deeds.

LOTS of people make mistakes that end up hurting other people. Sometimes such mistakes are hard to forgive but if they were truly "mistakes"...based on bad judgment, over-zealousness or in some cases, just plain stupidity might well be forgiven.

But when the misdeed is INTENTIONAL...when the guy does wrong and KNOWS he is doing wrong when he does it, then punishment needs to be extracted because, if not, that sort of behavior becomes reinforced making it more likely that the bad boy will be bad over and over.

And remember, even in religious terms, forgiveness must be ASKED for...genuinely and with honest remorse. It is NOT granted automatically!

This bad boy not only ripped off Jay and the other players but he did it knowingly and then lied to Jay about making restitution.

Congratulations to Jay for being willing to see to it that the guy doesn't just skate...AGAIN...and end up doing the same thing to others in the future. Without people like Jay, our society would become Mad Max!

Regards,
Jim

remember me - smokey badass?

you owed me games and weight too before you ran off to LA with no cheese from the poker tournament, remember???

just kidding, but hope to make a point cause i'm older and better lookin' (both i'd surly trade with you, or, play for);

i don'teven know what i'm thinking, so i have no idea how to express what i want to say... but maybe it is something like this...

you already made a lot happen for the players and as usual you were a great td. mr. mark g. helped a great deal.

a lot of good came out of what you did and really what fatboy expressed here on Az, even before you said a word (if my memory serves me).

just my thought being an old fool is this: hopefully the players came away just 'ok enough', mr. mark g. also, and you a little better than you began, but we all know you didn't care for yourself, the gentleman you are.

my point, if i can find it, is, all in all, things worked out pretty good (sorry but it is only my opinion) from what could have been a disaster. and imho, sometimes in life, "not perfect" can or should be acceptable.

i can't convince you, i know, i won't try. i am just telling you from the lessons i have had in life.

and say this; look at the blessings. we have so many.

all the best,
smokey

 

[Nostroke]

.

Bottom line, he made money off the event and stiffed the top finishers.

If he did, that is a different story- I thought the tournament was a complete flop as far as the $$ went. How did he make money jay?

 

[smokey]

hi jay

Thanks for this Smokey. I hear you loud and clear. I'm just not willing to let this guy off the hook. I made a promise to the players to collect (particularly Johnny), and I intend to do just that. My sense is that waiting a year at this time will give this guy a good opportunity to totally disappear. Right now I do have a correct home address for him. I doubt he will be there in a few more months.

Bottom line, he made money off the event and stiffed the top finishers. I'll chase this guy as long as it takes to get them all paid! I want to know one good reason why he shouldn't have to pay. He HAD the money! That much I know. He just decided to pocket it instead of pay everyone. I get pissed every time I think about it. Bobbitt is not a good guy who got in over his head. He is a con man who took advantage of many of the best pool players in America. I view him in much the same way I do TruDough. Leeches on the pool community.

i guess i didn't have my facts straight. your second paragraph above cleared that up. i didn't know he HAD the money - i got it now.

i hope it all works out soon for everybody concerned!

best,
smokey

 

[smokey]

hi av8

Nobel sentiments Smokey. Often "forgive and forget" is the correct thing to do. BUT the INTENT of the wrongdoer is what should motivate the response to his deeds.

LOTS of people make mistakes that end up hurting other people. Sometimes such mistakes are hard to forgive but if they were truly "mistakes"...based on bad judgment, over-zealousness or in some cases, just plain stupidity might well be forgiven.

But when the misdeed is INTENTIONAL...when the guy does wrong and KNOWS he is doing wrong when he does it, then punishment needs to be extracted because, if not, that sort of behavior becomes reinforced making it more likely that the bad boy will be bad over and over.

And remember, even in religious terms, forgiveness must be ASKED for...genuinely and with honest remorse. It is NOT granted automatically!

This bad boy not only ripped of Jay and the other players but he did it knowingly and then lied to Jay about making restitution.

Congratulations to Jay for being willing to see to it that the guy doesn't just skate...AGAIN...and end up doing the same thing to others in the future. Without people like Jay, our society would become Mad Max!

Regards,
Jim

i just found out my memory need a refresher from jay, and he gave it to me!

and so i have to agree with you now too.

thanks,
smokey

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

Chuck Bobbit Update

Lets get something straight about Jay:

1. He is the best Tournament Director in the country BAR NONE. He gets the players to the events because of his reputation for this.

2. He is one of the nicest persons I have had the pleasure to meet. An asset in the pool world.

3. A very honest person. His word is everything.

This tournament put a bruise on his reputation and he isn't going to let ANYBODY get away hitting him like this without a fight.

The thing I really like about Jay is how nice he is (until you gamble with him on a pool table, then he will rip your heart out if he can!!!).

Good luck Jay getting this guy since I'm positive you will make him pay.

 

[Scott Lee]

TWOFORPOOL...Let's get one more thing straight. Jay may be a very good tournament director, but "best in the country, bar none"? I don't think so, and I believe Jay will say the same thing. Scott Smith is who runs all the major events in this country (U.S. Open & DCC, just to name a couple of biggies). One more thing...the players show up for the $$$, not the tournament director. No offense to Jay!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Lets get something straight about Jay:

1. He is the best Tournament Director in the country BAR NONE. He gets the players to the events because of his reputation for this.

 

[Milo]

There are many top notch TDs in this country. Jay is one of them.

 

[JMS]

This may only be relevant to those in the Phoenix area and who attended the ill fated Desert Shootout back in April. But by now all of you know what happened. The "promoter" Chuck Bobbit wrote bad checks to all the top finishers in the event. Johnny, Mika, Mike Davis, John Schmidt, Charley Bryant all got stiffed, me included.

Mark Griffin bailed us out to the tune of .70 cents on the dollar. Bobbit was supposed to pay the other 30%. He made a big deal of telling me and others that he would get it taken care of quickly, certainly within a few months. Didn't happen! Now he's closed his business and quit communicating. He doesn't answer e-mails or phone calls. He still owes Johnny thousands and all told nearly ten grand to everyone who got bad checks.

I for one am not going to "forgive" this debt. I have all the paperwork from the Maricopa County sheriff's department for filing bad check charges on him. And I have his home address and driver's license number. If he refuses to communicate in the next week, I'm filing on his ass. This is my public notice to him. So if you see him around Phoenix tell him Jay says hi.

Does Chuck own a home? Maybe all the players that he owes money to can put a lien on his home. It may take a while to get thier money back, but he would not be able to sell it until he takes care of the liens on his home.

 

[jay helfert]

If he did, that is a different story- I thought the tournament was a complete flop as far as the $$ went. How did he make money jay?

1. Collected $24,000 in entry fee money. 60 times $400.
2. Did approx. $12,500-15,000 at the gate.
3. Sold over $5,000 in raffle tickets (for a diamond table that he wrote a bad check on).

He did pay out approx. $17,500 of the prize money in cash to the lower finishing players. As you can see, there is a lot of money unaccounted for. That's what I'm talking about! Kapeche?

 

[jay helfert]

TWOFORPOOL...Let's get one more thing straight. Jay may be a very good tournament director, but "best in the country, bar none"? I don't think so, and I believe Jay will say the same thing. Scott Smith is who runs all the major events in this country (U.S. Open & DCC, just to name a couple of biggies). One more thing...the players show up for the $$$, not the tournament director. No offense to Jay!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

No offense taken.

 

[PETARD]

Bobbitt The Bobbitt?

Does Chuck own a home? Maybe all the players that he owes money to can put a lien on his home. It may take a while to get thier money back, but he would not be able to sell it until he takes care of the liens on his home.

SOUNDS LIKE IT MAY BE TIME FOR THE COLLECTION GURU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sunnyday]

1. Collected $24,000 in entry fee money. 60 times $400.
2. Did approx. $12,500-15,000 at the gate.
3. Sold over $5,000 in raffle tickets (for a diamond table that he wrote a bad check on).

He did pay out approx. $17,500 of the prize money in cash to the lower finishing players. As you can see, there is a lot of money unaccounted for. That's what I'm talking about! Apache?

Wow! $12,500 - 15,000 at the gate from a pool hall? This must be the largest pool hall to get that kind of sitting...

Also, I heard he had lost the $10,000 deposit he had made at the Hotel that the deal went side ways on...

S.

 

[cardiac kid]

One more thing...the players show up for the $$$, not the tournament director.

Scott,

Perhaps you never met the late Joe Kerr of Joker Promotions. Several of us in Upstate New York travelled hundreds of miles to play in events he directed. No offence to Jay. I played in several of his Reno Barbox events. Players do go where they feel wanted, respected and get paid!!!

Lyn

 

[Fatboy]

Scott,

Players do go where they feel wanted, respected and get paid!!!

Lyn

Thats exactly right, Johnny Archer goes to all the Tournments that Shannon promotes that he can fit into his schedual, because of that reason.

 

[jay helfert]

Wow! $12,500 - 15,000 at the gate from a pool hall? This must be the largest pool hall to get that kind of sitting...

Also, I heard he had lost the $10,000 deposit he had made at the Hotel that the deal went side ways on...

S.

Let's see Sunny, if you charge $60-100 for a season pass and sell over 100 of those, plus charge $20 a day and sell another 100+ tickets each day. What does that add up to? They brought in bleacher seating for well over 200 people. And we got good crowds every day! The place was packed on Friday and Saturday, and there were very few freebies.

$10,000 deposit. HOGWASH!!! You must be getting your information from Chuck. Not that he'd lie to you.

 

[av84fun]

Does Chuck own a home? Maybe all the players that he owes money to can put a lien on his home. It may take a while to get thier money back, but he would not be able to sell it until he takes care of the liens on his home.

Unfortunately, you can't go around putting liens on people's homes.

Liens are generally available to protect the interersts of building contractors and governmental taxing authorities. And filing a lien, if the law provides that you can do so doesn't necessarily mean that the home will be sold. Liens just establish a right to receive proceeds of sale if one ever takes place.

In civil matters, you need to file a lawsuit and then get a judgment at which point you can force the sale of the loser's property in satisfaction of the judgment and it helps to have a lien that has priority in that sale.

In this matter, since there were checks written and promises broken there are both a civil and possibly criminal aspects.

Jay is a big boy and will do his own research and get competent legal advice, but if it was me, I would go the civil route since civil fraud is what is called an "intentional tort" that opens the door to punitive damages in any amount that the jury might find appropriate.

Writing bad checks and lying about restitution is the kind of behavior that piss jurors off and motivate them to hand down large awards.

Plaintiff's attorney fees can also be awarded and likely would be in a case like this.

I would only to the criminal route if I knew the bad guy had no assets and that suing would therefore be a waste of time.

Having said all the above, a civil suit could force Bobbitt into bankruptcy in which case most causes of action would be extinguished. But fraud might survive a bankruptcy filing.

Just my $0.02 as a non-lawyer.

Regards,
Jim

 

[sunnyday]

Let's see Sunny, if you charge $60-100 for a season pass and sell over 100 of those, plus charge $20 a day and sell another 100+ tickets each day. What does that add up to? They brought in bleacher seating for well over 200 people. And we got good crowds every day! The place was packed on Friday and Saturday, and there were very few freebies.

$10,000 deposit. HOGWASH!!! You must be getting your information from Chuck. Not that he'd lie to you.

Jay,

I wasn't trying to over step my boundaries and I apologize if I came off that way. I do hear a lot of things and I know you shouldn't believe everything you hear - your resources are probably more relieable than mine... after all you were there.

I'm sure you will do what is right in your heart and no one will think bad of you for doing so. Many will say that Chuck had it coming to him...even.

I just wish there was a better way to resolve this matter without a legal action but Chuck is also making that impossible for not communicating with you.

While all this is going on, has anyone been able to contact Chuck? You would think someone from this forum should be able to get hold of him before things get real ugly:shakehead:

S.

 

[Scott Lee]

Actually Jim, that is not quite correct. Even with a judgement from a lawsuit, NOBODY can force the sale of property (if you live there) to satisfy a debt. You're quite correct about when a lien is filed, the lienholder will get 'first dibs' on the proceeds, if and when a sale of that property occurs. If there is more than one creditor/lienholder, it goes by date of the lien filed.

Scott Lee ~ also not a lawyer, but has had experience in this area
www.poolknowledge.com

In civil matters, you need to file a lawsuit and then get a judgment at which point you can force the sale of the loser's property in satisfaction of the judgment and it helps to have a lien that has priority in that sale.

Just my $0.02 as a non-lawyer.

Jim

 

[Scott Lee]

Lyn...I agree, and I knew Joe Kerr pretty well. He was a great guy, and excellent TD. However, with the dearth of tournaments out there, most players will go wherever they can, trying to win the $$$. This is just as true today, as it was 30+ years ago. It does help that there are some honest TD's out there. Unfortunately, there are still ripoffs too...as evident in this thread, and many others lately.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott,

Perhaps you never met the late Joe Kerr of Joker Promotions. Several of us in Upstate New York travelled hundreds of miles to play in events he directed. No offence to Jay. I played in several of his Reno Barbox events. Players do go where they feel wanted, respected and get paid!!!

Lyn