Just curious, have you ever played/gambled at 2-shot? I remember when 1f got popular and the only reason was to speed up tournament matches and give Dead Money Ned a chance to win a match.Your so-called 'requirements' do not apply to 2f-pushout. Don't like it don't play it but don't try to tell me that TExpress rules are better.
CJ Wiley discusses 2-foul 9 ball (aka roll-out or push out)
- Thread starter AF pool guy
- Start date
As usual, cj's video was entertaining. Only small nit, I think he got a bit tangled up explaining three way shots while driving. Two way you are trying to make the ball or play safe, pretty standard even today. The three way shot includes playing shape on the next ball, not playing a safety on it too. No point in playing safe on it when you have already played safe on the current ball if you missed it. If you made it, you want to be able to shoot the next ball yourself.
Another third part is looking into the future and planning your opponent's run based on what you know about them. Your "safety" may be several shots ahead in another player's run. Maybe you just want to let them be shooting when a low percentage mess has to be dealt with. There you have a safety that your opponent got themselves into, but you saw it coming before your last shot. Playing a decent chess player I sometimes had three or four situations triggered by the same move. They would easily avoid a simple pin or split but when there were three or four developing on the table at the same time sometimes part of the trap slipped by until too late. Pool can be much the same way. Even better, sometimes the other player can see they are headed into trouble but doesn't have a way out! I liked those brain fryers to put pressure on my opponent.
Hu
Another third part is looking into the future and planning your opponent's run based on what you know about them. Your "safety" may be several shots ahead in another player's run. Maybe you just want to let them be shooting when a low percentage mess has to be dealt with. There you have a safety that your opponent got themselves into, but you saw it coming before your last shot. Playing a decent chess player I sometimes had three or four situations triggered by the same move. They would easily avoid a simple pin or split but when there were three or four developing on the table at the same time sometimes part of the trap slipped by until too late. Pool can be much the same way. Even better, sometimes the other player can see they are headed into trouble but doesn't have a way out! I liked those brain fryers to put pressure on my opponent.
Hu
Yes...when I started playing it was the ruleset.
The newer generation is better because all sports have improved. Better nutrition, coaching and available knowledge.
The old timers played good and had grit (but the new generation shoots straighter)! Pool is different now. There also used to be alot of gamesmanship.
I remember guys wanting to bet exactly what was in your wallet (the maximum pressure move).
I don't think it's the same now, but I haven't been around much...
I knew Richie, last time I saw him was about 11 years ago In Vegas
He was a great craps hustler. You ever seen him hustle craps? Wow
Best
Fatboy
middleofnowhere
Registered
We were in Las Vegas maybe 20 years ago and we ran into him. We picked up like we had seen each other the week before. I have had that happen with other players. You don't see them for years nothing changes. It is funny you mention the craps. I think he made a video on craps. Anyway, he and my wife played like 12 hours and she won about $2500. She gave Richie a thousand.
She won about another thousand later in the week doing what ever it was he had shown her. I'll have to ask her if she still remembers the system. He lived with us once, he stayed in my guest cottage, no rent of course. Plus I gave him access to a gold crown. I don't know many who didn't really like Richie, even though he may not have been the most honest guy at times. I'm going to look for his video.
that didn't take long I found it on youtube
Last edited:
I wasn’t aware of that video
thanks very much!
phreaticus
Well-known member
On the Earl jumping thing, I didn’t read it that way. I think (but am not sure) that Earl has always been against the specialized short jump cues, but not jumping. Lots of us middle/older aged dudes learned to hop with house/player cues and I think that may have been what Earl excelled at and brought to the old 2 foul game that changed the dynamics a bit which CJ was referring to.
Even in mid/late 80’s when I started playing, 9ball was mostly already played Texas express style, at least in the east & west coast dive locations I played. But it sounds great and would love to play it this way if other folks were into it. As it is, its annoying that any 9b game in a new bar/poolhall these days always requires a 5 min conversation of what flavor of convoluted rules locals want to use. 10b is cool and all, but I sort of wish the rotation games could have just stayed to two simple primary variations; 2 foul rollout or 1 foul express.
There is no BIH for missing a shot. BIH is awarded after a foul shot. The nearest equivalent in golf is when you have an unplayable shot, play a drop shot and add one to your score. At the pro level that's a harsher penalty more often than not than your opponent moving the ball closer to the hole.
Anyway, if a player's opponent can't escape from a "cheap snooker", the opportunity to easily run out seems like a pretty reasonable reward.
Do you prefer two consecutive fouls or two fouls by the same person? I have played two fouls 50 years ago but I do not remember which way.
Are there any videos of a two foul match floating around? A quick youtube search didn’t get anything.
I'd love to see a video, whatever the visual quality.
Intuitively, it makes sense to me that two fouls by the same person is preferable - but there might be certain dynamics of the game that counter that intuition.
Earl used his playing cue to jump.
You ask a good question without a clearcut answer. Two consecutive fouls made decisions a little tougher, two by the same person was easier to play. I was pretty happy playing either one so usually let the other player choose. Playing by the hour any game was good but I hated nine ball on a coin-op table. The problem was the six balls usually left over. The other player almost always wanted to play six ball to not waste those extra balls. While I had a very strong nine, ten, or full rack break, I never found a good six ball break. I might have been a bit over fifty percent at best. As a result, all too often I fought a fairly tough battle to win a nine ball game and then handed it back to an easy win at six ball played with the same rules but a much more open table.
Funny thing, I went to an area where they played the six ball game first, then if I lost I could recoup with the nine ball game. I liked that a whole lot better! I knew it didn't make any different except in my head but the fact remained, I liked to get that danged six ball game out of the way even if spotting balls sometimes cost me no nine ball game, two sixes instead. Funny! After awhile I tried to get people to play by nine ball rules but with ten balls. There were two reasons, most people very rarely played ten ball and didn't have a strong ten ball break, and to be sure that there weren't those pesky six balls leftover!
Hu
middleofnowhere
Registered
I used to like "any two". The reason is if I push out push out and he decides to shoot, I like him to be under the threat I am of giving up BIH. I hope I am thinking straight about this because it has been a long time.
Why should the person accepting the push be on one foul?? Makes no sense to me. We always played no more than two consec. pushes. Say i push out and my opponent also pushes. Now we're both on one foul. Whoever shoots the nxt shot must make a legal shot or its BIH. This didn't happen often but its a simple rule and easy to follow. Most times the incoming player either shot or let the other guy have it back.
I think we started out with plain two shot, whomever shot after a foul had the debt. I believe I first encountered two fouls by the same player on a ride into the Southeastern US. I don't think I encountered it around South Louisiana for another year or two but I didn't gamble in Greenway or New Orleans for different reasons.
Hu
Hu
"Kicking wasn't supposed to be part of the game". Don't think he sold me on it.
So where are the videos of matches played with that rule set? Could have sworn there was some one off tournament held a few years back by a streamer in LA or TX that play using them but I think it was a dud and never repeated. Maybe PoolActionTV?
So where are the videos of matches played with that rule set? Could have sworn there was some one off tournament held a few years back by a streamer in LA or TX that play using them but I think it was a dud and never repeated. Maybe PoolActionTV?