There are better ways to ask for money (crowdfunding.com, kickstarter.com, etc.). Asking for money on AZBilliards just seems a bit too much like panhandling.
Cliff Joyner looking for sponsors
- Thread starter cliff_joyner
- Start date
There are better ways to ask for money (crowdfunding.com, kickstarter.com, etc.). Asking for money on AZBilliards just seems a bit too much like panhandling.
Trust Me..............
:grin:::
When Tunica , Gets here . CLIFF WILL BE THERE, He doesn't need anyone on here so don't flatter yourself.
Good Luck , Cliff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:grin::grin::grin:
:grin:::
When Tunica , Gets here . CLIFF WILL BE THERE, He doesn't need anyone on here so don't flatter yourself.
Good Luck , Cliff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:grin::grin::grin:
That's right Gary. But it was nice of them to give the opportunity to people that post here. Doubt they ever will again though.
Hope to see YOU in Tunica.
Ray
Talk to Ray.........
Absolutely Im sure a fair split is in order. I would ask Ray what he thinks ?
Gary
Absolutely Im sure a fair split is in order. I would ask Ray what he thinks ?
Gary
We need to start a list of people willing to help Cliff out.Get enough involved, it would be a small investment for all.
Anthony
Top of the List
Anthony..
Cliff shoud be at the top of the list.
Oh and by the way, I have a sure winner in the 7th at Churchill Downs. Lets all pool our money together and make a bet.
Looks like a sure winner to me.
And I will split the winnings (if any) fairly. 50% for me and the other 50% can be shared evenly by the rest of you.
One thing though, you will have to risk all the money but I will play the race to the best of my ability.
Don
Anthony..
Cliff shoud be at the top of the list.
Oh and by the way, I have a sure winner in the 7th at Churchill Downs. Lets all pool our money together and make a bet.
Looks like a sure winner to me.
And I will split the winnings (if any) fairly. 50% for me and the other 50% can be shared evenly by the rest of you.
One thing though, you will have to risk all the money but I will play the race to the best of my ability.
Don
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Bet !!
Don, You wouldn't bet on a 2 legged horse agains't a 1 legged horse.
Anthony..
Cliff shoud be at the top of the list.
Oh and by the way, I have a sure winner in the 7th at Churchill Downs. Lets all pool our money together and make a bet.
Looks like a sure winner to me.
And I will split the winnings (if any) fairly. 50% for me and the other 50% can be shared evenly by the rest of you.
One thing though, you will have to risk all the money and but I will play the race to the best of my ability.
Don
Don, You wouldn't bet on a 2 legged horse agains't a 1 legged horse.
Bet!!
Gary.. That would be a funny sight to see.
I bet even you could probably pick the winner.
Don
Gary.. That would be a funny sight to see.
I bet even you could probably pick the winner.
Don
Oh, yeah. This guy's got his finger on the pulse of what's happening in the world today.
What he hasn't told you about are the midnight visits by the PLA, if you screw up your practice session.
Yeah, China isn't THAT into pool yet. It's still pretty much a private venture without much government support or intervention. Many Taiwanese who are doing ok as coaches here though.
Well technically asking for money on a forum is a version of crowdfunding. I don't think it's like panhandling at all though because the offer is to invest in the player and get a return if the player does well.
No different than backing poker players or even betting on the horses. I mean aside from WHO is doing the asking in this particular instance the act of asking for investment is something that happens every day a million times a day.
If say Shane were offering a 25% return on your money for investing in his participation I would think that a lot of us would jump at the chance to be a part of that because the odds are in our favor that we will see some kind of return on the money in the short term.
If say Joe MidRange Pro were asking then most us would look at his tournament record and probably pass because the odds are against seeing any return on the investment.
That's just the nature of the situation when anyone asks for investment to do anything. As I said several times I think it would be perfectly great if we had a market section here where players could pitch themselves and backers could decide who they like to back. As well backers could pitch themselves and players could choose the best deal for them. That's a real honest marketplace and if deals go well then it flourishes and if people get burned then it crashes.
WOW, no other way to say it than what you just said. When a super player asks me to play i tell him i'd rather buy lottery tickets i have better odds there, where as when a fish asks i jump with cheapest bait i have! Cliff is great player and probably has much greater chance to win one pocket, but 9 or 10 ball maybe.. He will probably find some people welling to play him sets of one pocket for some $$$, if he wins he made it.
Fair points, but I honestly think Cliff Joyner would have a much better chance if he (or one of his friends) sets up something a bit more formal...
http://www.gofundme.com/Sports-Teams-Clubs/
Cliff, you're a great player and I hope you get what you need to get to the tournament. Take a moment to set yourself up at that page and I'll be one of the first to kick over a few greenbacks.
Hmmm...I just noticed:
http://www.gofundme.com/Nationals
Jb cases
John, I don't know you, But what I think I understand is that you are a maker of nice cue cases. With that being said, How can you talk about and talk down on the Pro Player, When in fact, You make a pretty good living off of the game of pool. It just sounds hypocritical when you speak of, And even mentioning a Pro Players name as if he was looking for a handout.
You , Should, more than anyone should be stepping up, And I say this because you are a major pool related equipment maker. Instead you ridicule players who are trying to make a living at what they love.
I understand it is a life choice. But without these players we would never have legends. Sometimes it may be better to let people think you may be a fool, Than start your computer and prove it.
There would be no road story's if it weren't for the hardcore player. For pool to move forward we don't need negativity. And you FULL OF IT..
Players think of this next time your ready for your next purchase. John, Pool puts food on your table. Don't you think the pro's deserve this, It takes hard work to play at this level.
Gary Lutman:angry:
John, I don't know you, But what I think I understand is that you are a maker of nice cue cases. With that being said, How can you talk about and talk down on the Pro Player, When in fact, You make a pretty good living off of the game of pool. It just sounds hypocritical when you speak of, And even mentioning a Pro Players name as if he was looking for a handout.
You , Should, more than anyone should be stepping up, And I say this because you are a major pool related equipment maker. Instead you ridicule players who are trying to make a living at what they love.
I understand it is a life choice. But without these players we would never have legends. Sometimes it may be better to let people think you may be a fool, Than start your computer and prove it.
There would be no road story's if it weren't for the hardcore player. For pool to move forward we don't need negativity. And you FULL OF IT..
Players think of this next time your ready for your next purchase. John, Pool puts food on your table. Don't you think the pro's deserve this, It takes hard work to play at this level.
Gary Lutman:angry:
John isn't talking down on the Pro players Buddy.
If anything, he knows who butters his toast.
There are good and bad apples in any profession, in any walk of life.
It's his money and he also gets to choose how to spend it. No one else does.
After it was revealed that the OP wasn't Cliff, I am amazed that yourself or anyone else
Continued to champion the cause. That should have been the deal killer for anyone.
Ok, to reiterate, Cliff has anything but a stellar reputation with some of his actions or deals in the pool world. That's not a huge help when you come to a pool forum asking for money and many are aware of his past indiscretions.
Then, like I mentioned, we find out that the OP is just pretending to be Cliff. That's pretty dishonest, don't you think.
So, you take a a reputation and add it to a dishonest action, the OP tells us that we are A Holes and puts down AZ BIlliards. What do you honestly hope for. Not much right.
And as Ray mentioned, it's doubtful that we will get the priveledge of ever sponsoring Cliff again. Really, so sad Ray.
I seriously believe that enuff bridges were burned this time around that should it ever happen again, the response won't be any different, and I can guarantee that one, 100%.
Anyway, I am happy to hear that you guys figured a way to send Cliff to the tourney.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
Ya know, lending money to people is the same as giving a stray cat a bowl of milk. They will be back the next day
Meweling at your door for another.
If anything, he knows who butters his toast.
There are good and bad apples in any profession, in any walk of life.
It's his money and he also gets to choose how to spend it. No one else does.
After it was revealed that the OP wasn't Cliff, I am amazed that yourself or anyone else
Continued to champion the cause. That should have been the deal killer for anyone.
Ok, to reiterate, Cliff has anything but a stellar reputation with some of his actions or deals in the pool world. That's not a huge help when you come to a pool forum asking for money and many are aware of his past indiscretions.
Then, like I mentioned, we find out that the OP is just pretending to be Cliff. That's pretty dishonest, don't you think.
So, you take a a reputation and add it to a dishonest action, the OP tells us that we are A Holes and puts down AZ BIlliards. What do you honestly hope for. Not much right.
And as Ray mentioned, it's doubtful that we will get the priveledge of ever sponsoring Cliff again. Really, so sad Ray.
I seriously believe that enuff bridges were burned this time around that should it ever happen again, the response won't be any different, and I can guarantee that one, 100%.
Anyway, I am happy to hear that you guys figured a way to send Cliff to the tourney.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
Ya know, lending money to people is the same as giving a stray cat a bowl of milk. They will be back the next day
Meweling at your door for another.
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Hello Angry Gary Lutman,
You are right you don't know me. You don't know what sort of "living" I am making "off" this game. You don't know what I have done in this game, for the game, for the players, or anything about me. Yet you presume to tell me what kind of a living I am making and how I should spend my money.
Now you're getting on my nerves when you presume to tell me about pros and the "value" of their contribution to the game of pool or billiards. I am POSITIVE that I have tested that value in more ways that you can imagine.
You OBVIOUSLY chose not to read my last replies so let me remind you, I have given money, paid rent for, got stuff out of hock for, sent cases and cues and cash, opened my home, loaned money, backed, arranged exhibitions and clinics for, made flyers and posters for, made letterhead for, printed business cards for, made bio cards for, set up on-demand photo printing systems for, and done everything else except wipe their ass for pro these past 20 years.
So don't presume to tell me I don't know the value of the pros. In FACT if you would choose to READ instead of react you would find I am ON YOUR SIDE from the first post I made in this thread.
But if you want to IGNORE reality then that's your choice. At the end of the day the market IS exactly where it deserves to be. Professional players ARE getting paid exactly what they are worth. Like water every market finds it's level and every person gets paid exactly what they are worth.
In my 25+ years in this industry I have RARELY seen a professional player actively promote their sponsors. VERY VERY VERY rarely.
I gave you some veyr good suggestions of what could be done but you ignore them and focus on me hinting at Cliff's reputation.
Well get over it, Cliff Joyner has a reputation as a bite man who doesn't pay back the loans people give him. If you think that he or his rep could come on this forum and that reputation wouldn't be brought up then you are the one being foolish.
This discussion though has gone beyond Cliff and into what can pros do for themselves to make money that doesn't require simply asking for backing. That's the part you are missing here, the CONSTRUCTIVE part.
And road stories? Well guess what we iggies LOVE road stories and we pay for them. I bought Pool Wars, Rags to Rifleman, Freddie's books, the Cornbread Red Book, Winning One Pocket, Grady's book, McGoorty, Fat's book, Danny D's book, Bicycle Willie's book, and will buy Keith's book. In fact I think I have bought every pool book published with road stories in them.
CJ Wiley has been here for almost a year now telling us road stories for free........AND selling his videos and now personal instruction......that's how a pro does it. Let me capitalize that for you, that's how a PRO does it.
So save it telling me what pros are worth. And don't try to spend my money for me either. Cliff Joyner and ALL top pros have enormous money making ability in their arms and heads. Not my fault if they don't want to use those abilities. I know what I would do if I had them.
I doubt it .........
Now you really put your foot in your mouth, I have forgot more about the billiard room business than you know. You know how to build cases in China. Do your research before you tell me about the billiard room business. I have been in it for almost 30 years. Gary Lutman :angry:
Now you really put your foot in your mouth, I have forgot more about the billiard room business than you know. You know how to build cases in China. Do your research before you tell me about the billiard room business. I have been in it for almost 30 years. Gary Lutman :angry:
Want to bet on that? We can have a public quiz 20 questions.
You put up the questions and send the answers to someone else. I will answer all the questions within five minutes of you putting it up if you tell me in advance that you will post it.
I bet my answers will be acceptably in line with your answers for 90% of your questions. CJ Wiley can be the judge here.
$1000 is what I will bet on this RIGHT NOW and you can send all or part of it to Cliff.
And I didn't tell you about the pool room business Angry Gary, I told you I know about it because I have owned a pool room and bars. I said I know more about the business of pool than you do and unless you have been involved in all the aspects that I have you can't possibly know more about it.
So you like to gamble, let's see what kind of gamble you have.
Wow, 1000 big ones.
That money could be sent to Cliff.
Bet we hear the chirp of crickets as of now.
Prove me wrong Gary and help your buddy out if you win.
That money could be sent to Cliff.
Bet we hear the chirp of crickets as of now.
Prove me wrong Gary and help your buddy out if you win.