Cliff Joyner looking for sponsors

Sure, I will be in Vegas in July. See you there and I am sure we can make a game. Last time I was there I played Jesse $600 a game one hole and broke even getting a little weight.



Now don't go off making other games..We are locked in for life..ha ha just joking..good luck to all involved....and cliff...and Gary..and john..
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
The lot of professional pool players must be improving somehow. Previously, the forum Drama Queen described professional pool players as "Dancing Monkeys." Now she jokingly calls them "pariahs and no-good bums."

When one considers the sordid history of pool, in which professionals and road players gamble, drink, lie, cheat, shark and hustle their way into making a living, it's no wonder that our sport remains in the gutter.

To refresh your fading memories, here's a colorful excerpt from Billy Incardona about Bernie Rogoff:
"One of the guys said that he was going to take all the money because we hustled them (and he was pretty big and angry) Bunny then said in his drunken voice... you can't do that this kid won the money fair and square... The big guy started to walk over to the light to grab the money...thats when Bunny ran to the table and jumped up and grabbed the money off the light and took off running out the door. The other guy pulled a gun and fired it as bunny was running out the door, fortunately missing Bunny. Everyone ran outside and Bunny ran into a field in back of the club as this guy was shooting at him. My car was in the parking lot so I figured this was a good time to jump into my car and boogie..which I did ..in a hurry while they were occupied chasing Bunny."​

If you look at books like "Pool Wars", you can find many more colorful descriptions about the pool players, hustlers and scum bags that make up a large part of our pool folklore. If professional pool players want more respect from the common public, as well as other pool players and fans, they need to earn it. (It's definitely not helping their cause for the forum Drama Queen to be calling professionals Dancing Monkeys, pariahs and no-good bums.)
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And here I think most of us thought YOU were the forum drama queen.... Usually every drama queen you meet is the FIRST one to call someone else a drama queen... I think it is usually employed in order to create more drama... Of course on AZ drama seems to be in high demand on days that end in Y so have at it!!!!

Chris
How does my tiara look?
 
History ............

The Renfro said:
And here I think most of us thought YOU were the forum drama queen.... Usually every drama queen you meet is the FIRST one to call someone else a drama queen... I think it is usually employed in order to create more drama... Of course on AZ drama seems to be in high demand on days that end in Y so have at it!!!!

Chris
How does my tiara look?
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You have got to be kidding. What about Dog Fighting, Shootings, Rape , Involuntary manslaughter, Voluntary manslaughter, Drug use, Drug dealing, Fixing sporting events. ETC................... I bet you pay good money to watch your favorite one of these people. You think pool players are that bad , Wake up. I have been involved in a legal malpractice lawsuit for a few years now.

Don't come on here and tell me anything about lowlife , no good cheats, and liars. chances are next time youself or an acquaintance get in trouble. you will pay $150 plus to the finest of the crooks to defend you.
 
1 Lone Wolf said:
Post your name and I may speak, You know me , I would like to know you......
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I don't think we've ever met, but my pm's blew up during this thread with all kinds of nuggets about why you were standing up for Cliff when he owes everyone and their brother. I simply wanted a yes or no answer and just thought you may have missed it. I'm Tommy Welborn from north Georgia by the way.
 
Fair enough

corvette1340 said:
I don't think we've ever met, but my pm's blew up during this thread with all kinds of nuggets about why you were standing up for Cliff when he owes everyone and their brother. I simply wanted a yes or no answer and just thought you may have missed it. I'm Tommy Welborn from north Georgia by the way.
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If you think I havn't paid my dues you are wrong. As far as in the past I could have been helped out before, Most road players have been in this position at one time or another. I have given Cornbread Red a $100 years ago, Same with Mike Massey, back when he gambled. Both times I didn't care if I got it back or not.

The next time I saw these guys they came right up to me and paid me. It was nice, But not unexpected. I really didn't care because we veterans of the road, Help each other when we can.

Because we can't rely on the railbirds to help us, We help each other. So don't come on here and think you can take me on, I have bet it up since I was young.

I have helped and been helped, And I will continue to be like this. Until you have expierenced this lifestyle, My friend you are not qualified, Never heard of you.....

I am owed $225k right now by a millionaire that has alway's paid off. I didn't get paid.

Gary Lutman
 
1 Lone Wolf said:
If you think I havn't paid my dues you are wrong. As far as in the past I could have been helped out before, Most road players have been in this position at one time or another. I have given Cornbread Red a $100 years ago, Same with Mike Massey, back when he gambled. Both times I didn't care if I got it back or not.

The next time I saw these guys they came right up to me and paid me. It was nice, But not unexpected. I really didn't care because we veterans of the road, Help each other when we can.

Because we can't rely on the railbirds to help us, We help each other. So don't come on here and think you can take me on, I have bet it up since I was young.

I have helped and been helped, And I will continue to be like this. Until you have expierenced this lifestyle, My friend you are not qualified, Never heard of you.....

I am owed $225k right now by a millionaire that has alway's paid off. I didn't get paid.

Gary Lutman
Click to expand...

Lollercoaster
 
1 Lone Wolf said:
Until you have expierenced this lifestyle, My friend you are not qualified, Never heard of you.....
Click to expand...

That goes both ways. I can't imagine Cliff sitting in a cubicle, socking a few bucks away into his 401k. So, maybe he should stick to asking other roadies. That's the thing, Gary. Us keyboard schmucks hear all the time about how hard it is and get flipped all kinds of crap for asking what really are legitimate questions(ie- here in the real world of working), but then we get the 'woe is me' when the tables are turned.

Until somebody like Cliff experiences sitting his ass at a desk for 40 hours, doing mundane things, dealing with office politics, taking a shower at 7am, getting to work at 8am, dealing with other people's crap with a smile on his face, getting the same few hundred each week, maybe he ought to be a bit respectful when asking for a handout when we get to hear how he blew $20k at a casino.

I don't take needless crap from my own family. I sure as hell won't take it from somebody that wants my money and has a history of not paying it back. Nor will I take it from somebody that's "got his back".

My name's John Scudder and I approve of this message.
 
In Gary's world it's ok to ask for money and not ever pay it back because "it's a tough life on the road", lol. In my world if you ask for money with no intentions of paying it back, that's the same as stealing.
 
Banks said:
That goes both ways. I can't imagine Cliff sitting in a cubicle, socking a few bucks away into his 401k. So, maybe he should stick to asking other roadies. That's the thing, Gary. Us keyboard schmucks hear all the time about how hard it is and get flipped all kinds of crap for asking what really are legitimate questions(ie- here in the real world of working), but then we get the 'woe is me' when the tables are turned.

Until somebody like Cliff experiences sitting his ass at a desk for 40 hours, doing mundane things, dealing with office politics, taking a shower at 7am, getting to work at 8am, dealing with other people's crap with a smile on his face, getting the same few hundred each week, maybe he ought to be a bit respectful when asking for a handout when we get to hear how he blew $20k at a casino.

I don't take needless crap from my own family. I sure as hell won't take it from somebody that wants my money and has a history of not paying it back. Nor will I take it from somebody that's "got his back".

My name's John Scudder and I approve of this message.
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This isn't about defending Cliff. It was posted that Cliff didn't even post the thread, A friend of his I guess. I am defending a choice of lifestyle. Players need sponsored in a lot of tournaments. I have worked all of my life. Some one trying to find an a sponsor is not out of line.
Gary
 
Well Said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Banks said:
That goes both ways. I can't imagine Cliff sitting in a cubicle, socking a few bucks away into his 401k. So, maybe he should stick to asking other roadies. That's the thing, Gary. Us keyboard schmucks hear all the time about how hard it is and get flipped all kinds of crap for asking what really are legitimate questions(ie- here in the real world of working), but then we get the 'woe is me' when the tables are turned.

Until somebody like Cliff experiences sitting his ass at a desk for 40 hours, doing mundane things, dealing with office politics, taking a shower at 7am, getting to work at 8am, dealing with other people's crap with a smile on his face, getting the same few hundred each week, maybe he ought to be a bit respectful when asking for a handout when we get to hear how he blew $20k at a casino.

I don't take needless crap from my own family. I sure as hell won't take it from somebody that wants my money and has a history of not paying it back. Nor will I take it from somebody that's "got his back".

My name's John Scudder and I approve of this message.
Click to expand...

John.. Excellent reply..

Don
 
You have the Answer

1 Lone Wolf said:
If you think I havn't paid my dues you are wrong. As far as in the past I could have been helped out before, Most road players have been in this position at one time or another. I have given Cornbread Red a $100 years ago, Same with Mike Massey, back when he gambled. Both times I didn't care if I got it back or not.

The next time I saw these guys they came right up to me and paid me. It was nice, But not unexpected. I really didn't care because we veterans of the road, Help each other when we can.
Because we can't rely on the railbirds to help us, We help each other. So don't come on here and think you can take me on, I have bet it up since I was young.

I have helped and been helped, And I will continue to be like this. Until you have expierenced this lifestyle, My friend you are not qualified, Never heard of you.....

I am owed $225k right now by a millionaire that has alway's paid off. I didn't get paid.

Gary Lutman
Click to expand...

Gary.. You veterans of the road should all get together and stake Cliff in Tunica.

Problem solved and this thread will probably just go away.

Don
 
1 Lone Wolf said:
This isn't about defending Cliff. It was posted that Cliff didn't even post the thread, A friend of his I guess. I am defending a choice of lifestyle. Players need sponsored in a lot of tournaments. I have worked all of my life. Some one trying to find an a sponsor is not out of line.
Gary
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I have no problem whatsoever with that.

To put it in perspective..

When I eventually go to a bank for a home loan, I'll be grilled left and right about my finances. I don't think it would be prudent at that juncture to start insulting the loan officer when he's asking me questions.

He's coming on here and asking for funds. He wasn't invited or asked, he had a friend do it. Maybe he should've put some thought into it and expected to be asked about a few things. The last thing he or his friend should've done is insult those same people. He got everything he asked for after that point.

If he had socked away some of those thousands, he wouldn't have needed to ask anybody for squat. All he had to do is think a few months ahead for his own future. That speaks for itself.

Tell ya what.. next time I see him at our regional APA or BCA events, drumming up some good public feelings, I'll apologize.

You can defend the lifestyle all you want, just don't try insulting me because I'm not giving a handout.

Edit: Don, I think I'm starting to know how parents feel! :o
 
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John,

It aint worth it. Stop trying to apply real world reason and common societal standards. they don't care.

I feel you on the "unpopular" opinion, lol:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4003195#post4003195

Eric

Banks said:
I have no problem whatsoever with that.

To put it in perspective..

When I eventually go to a bank for a home loan, I'll be grilled left and right about my finances. I don't think it would be prudent at that juncture to start insulting the loan officer when he's asking me questions.

He's coming on here and asking for funds. He wasn't invited or asked, he had a friend do it. Maybe he should've put some thought into it and expected to be asked about a few things. The last thing he or his friend should've done is insult those same people. He got everything he asked for after that point.

If he had socked away some of those thousands, he wouldn't have needed to ask anybody for squat. All he had to do is think a few months ahead for his own future. That speaks for itself.

Tell ya what.. next time I see him at our regional APA or BCA events, drumming up some good public feelings, I'll apologize.

You can defend the lifestyle all you want, just don't try insulting me because I'm not giving a handout.

Edit: Don, I think I'm starting to know how parents feel! :o
Click to expand...
 
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Good post Banks. I believe that what most people were thinking.

Gary seems to spend others money well, challenging them to step up to the plate but so far haven't seen an example of his contributions other than telling us many times how
Successful a room owner he was and how much money he added to tourneys in the past.

I wouldn't have minded helping out one bit, other than feeling a bit deceived by the OP pretending to be Cliff, if I had once felt that Cliff himself was trying to help himself as well.

That could have been as much as telling us that he was putting himself into some money games, teaching a few lessons, whatever.

The impression that I got was he was sitting back waiting for us to pay the total for his holiday.

Sorry, I bet that most of us, myself included were making plans to hopefully have our own holiday this summer. Mine will be taking my wife to Vegas for the BCAPL.

We earned that right, so should he.

Of the many Huge Fails on this thread, the one that made me laugh the best was he was planning on staying at Harrahs instead of a cheaper hotel.

Didn't work for me considering that I slept in the sleeper of my truck for many years in the parking lot of a truck stop or where ever I could park for the night.

The last time we were in Vegas, we stayed at the cheap seat Circus for 50 a night.

If that's good enuff for us, it should be good enuff for someone that's getting it for free.

One thing that Gary keeps harping about is how we should be getting together and not only helping Cliff out, but all the Pros.
He should take a step back and consider how much damage that this thread with a phony alias has possibly caused the next Pro that has to come on AZ asking for a leg up.
 
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Another Great comment.

Blue Hog ridr said:
Good post Banks. I believe that what most people were thinking.

Gary seems to spend others money well, challenging them to step up to the plate but so far haven't seen an example of his contributions other than telling us many times how
Successful a room owner he was and how much money he added to tourneys in the past.

I wouldn't have minded helping out one bit, other than feeling a bit deceived by the OP pretending to be Cliff, if I had once felt that Cliff himself was trying to help himself as well.

That could have been as much as telling us that he was putting himself into some money games, teaching a few lessons, whatever.

The impression that I got was he was sitting back waiting for us to pay the total for his holiday.

Sorry, I bet that most of us, myself included were making plans to hopefully have our own holiday this summer. Mine will be taking my wife to Vegas for the BCAPL.

We earned that right, so should he.

Of the many Huge Fails on this thread, the one that made me laugh the best was he was planning on staying at Harrahs instead of a cheaper hotel.

Didn't work for me considering that I slept in the sleeper of my truck for many years in the parking lot of a truck stop or where ever I could park for the night.

The last time we were in Vegas, we stayed at the cheap seat Circus for 50 a night.

If that's good enuff for us, it should be good enuff for someone that's getting it for free.

One thing that Gary keeps harping about is how we should be getting together and not only helping Cliff out, but all the Pros.
He should take a step back and consider how much damage that this thread with a phony alias has possibly caused the next Pro that has to come on AZ asking for a leg up.
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My guess would be that the majority of people on AZ Billiards are hard working people who understand that life is not a holiday.

But from what I see a few who have been Road players, lifetime pool hustlers or promoters just seem to think we should help the Pro Pool Players out of the situations that they have put themselves in.

Mr Pro Pool Player just swing by and check out the BCA or APL or any other league that may be having their yearly championships in Vegas this year.

Take a look at all those players and ask yourself how many of them are here on a sponsorship or have a stakehorse.

My guess is that 99.9% have paid all their expenses and just maybe that was their one vacation of the year.

Don
 
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