Cliff Joyner looking for sponsors

Ok !!!!

Want to bet on that? We can have a public quiz 20 questions.

You put up the questions and send the answers to someone else. I will answer all the questions within five minutes of you putting it up if you tell me in advance that you will post it.

I bet my answers will be acceptably in line with your answers for 90% of your questions. CJ Wiley can be the judge here.

$1000 is what I will bet on this RIGHT NOW and you can send all or part of it to Cliff.

And I didn't tell you about the pool room business Angry Gary, I told you I know about it because I have owned a pool room and bars. I said I know more about the business of pool than you do and unless you have been involved in all the aspects that I have you can't possibly know more about it.

So you like to gamble, let's see what kind of gamble you have.

Again , Now you think you have more gamble. Once again , Do your research. As far as your challenge, Im not book smart sir. But you can aks Mr. Wiley about me adding enormous amounts of cash to pool. Added on purpose and some on accident.
Now do you wan't to bet you have directly added more cash added to tournaments than me. And guess what else, If you give me a spot I might even play you a little pool.
Gary
P.S. Mr. Wiley save me Lol !!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:
 
Again , Now you think you have more gamble. Once again , Do your research. As far as your challenge, Im not book smart sir. But you can aks Mr. Wiley about me adding enormous amounts of cash to pool. Added on purpose and some on accident.
Now do you wan't to bet you have directly added more cash added to tournaments than me. And guess what else, If you give me a spot I might even play you a little pool.
Gary
P.S. Mr. Wiley save me Lol !!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:

Do you want to bet or not on whether I can match your knowledge of running a pool room? That's what we are talking about in this penis measurement contest right now.

I guess not. No bet is all you have to say.
 
Don't have to be book smart to type out 20 questions re the pool room business that JB asked you to do.

He's not asking you to take a science exam or a calculus test..
 
Wait a damn minute !!!!!!!

Do you want to bet or not on whether I can match your knowledge of running a pool room? That's what we are talking about in this penis measurement contest right now.

I guess not. No bet is all you have to say.

What about betting who has directly added cash into the tournaments ?
What about me and you playin a little pool ?
What about asking C.J.
What about......... getting tired ..........
Are you havin fun yet ...LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Now you really put your foot in your mouth, I have forgot more about the billiard room business than you know. You know how to build cases in China. Do your research before you tell me about the billiard room business. I have been in it for almost 30 years. Gary Lutman :angry:

I know how to build cases everywhere Gary. And cues. And cue balls. Among many other things I know about the billiard business. Tell me what you know about visas for players? Tell me what you know about going to court to protect player's rights?

Tell me what you know about setting up sponsorships worth 50k per year with performance bonuses?

Tell me how many dealers you have dealt with in your life? Tell me Gary what you know about the billiard industry when you have $30,000 tied up in a container that is held up in customs full of products you need for a show? Tell me what you know about that Gary?

Tell me how many professional players you have sponsored? What were the terms? What was their salary?

Oh and you have gamble? Well get your passport and come to China and you can bet as much as you want to bet. I will start you out with the women and if you can beat them then you can graduate to the men. You understand that it's no use to challenge a weak ass player like me. I have a few teenagers here who can give you all you want. IF you can win then you can take a boatload of cash back to America and give it all to Cliff.

Just bring plenty of money to bet with, I will take care of your hotel while you are here. We always treat our customers well.
 
What about betting who has directly added cash into the tournaments ?

As in the form of entry fees or in the form of sponsored money? Sure. I will start out with $150,000 over 20 years sponsored into events with 100k of it in the past ten years.

What about me and you playin a little pool ?

Sure, I will be in Vegas in July. See you there and I am sure we can make a game. Last time I was there I played Jesse $600 a game one hole and broke even getting a little weight.


What about asking C.J.

Asking him what? Tell Cliff to do what CJ has done these past 8 months on AZB and he won't have to ask anyone for a stake.

What about......... getting tired ..........
Are you havin fun yet ...LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh trust me we haven't even started to have fun yet this is only getting to know each other. You will know it when the equine intercourse begins. I know your heart is in the right place but it's tom in this game for you.
 
WOW, no other way to say it than what you just said. When a super player asks me to play i tell him i'd rather buy lottery tickets i have better odds there, where as when a fish asks i jump with cheapest bait i have! Cliff is great player and probably has much greater chance to win one pocket, but 9 or 10 ball maybe.. He will probably find some people welling to play him sets of one pocket for some $$$, if he wins he made it.

splains plenty.... When a pro player is willing to get in the box.. I look at is as an investment.... You don't learn anything from playing the fish but not everyone wants to or is capable or continued learning..... As I am reminded on the forums constantly....

As far as backing someone... or stake horsing... That is never for the weak of heart or for the regular 9-5 guys.....

As far as staking Cliff... You look at it 1 of 2 ways... You threw him A bone or you are making an investment....

If you are throwing him a bone... Good for you.. I like seeing him in action and I'd toss a benjamin in if needed... But if you are making an investment it's about transparency... I send Cliff 4k... But Joe, John, and Jim do as well.... He now has a 12k Stake..... His best bet would be to go 2 and out in the tourney so there was no payback expected and use the extra juice to gamble and roll.........

It's been done before so unless you get to know who and for how much you have to be a little on the leery side..... I think one of the old school players was infamous for selling his cue to about 10 different people during the tourney and thanks to Bob Meucci and the trunk of the said player's car everyone went home happy at most tourneys...

Chris
 
I know how to build cases everywhere Gary. And cues. And cue balls. Among many other things I know about the billiard business. Tell me what you know about visas for players? Tell me what you know about going to court to protect player's rights?

Tell me what you know about setting up sponsorships worth 50k per year with performance bonuses?

Tell me how many dealers you have dealt with in your life? Tell me Gary what you know about the billiard industry when you have $30,000 tied up in a container that is held up in customs full of products you need for a show? Tell me what you know about that Gary?

Tell me how many professional players you have sponsored? What were the terms? What was their salary?

Oh and you have gamble? Well get your passport and come to China and you can bet as much as you want to bet. I will start you out with the women and if you can beat them then you can graduate to the men. You understand that it's no use to challenge a weak ass player like me. I have a few teenagers here who can give you all you want. IF you can win then you can take a boatload of cash back to America and give it all to Cliff.

Just bring plenty of money to bet with, I will take care of your hotel while you are here. We always treat our customers well.

I have sponsored a lot of players, Purely on accident. And I know I can't beat the women. That is why when you come here I will play you.
 
Gary,
Do you currently owe anyone money in the pool world or have you ever put the bite on anyone? This might explain your staunch defense of Cliff.
 
splains plenty.... When a pro player is willing to get in the box.. I look at is as an investment.... You don't learn anything from playing the fish but not everyone wants to or is capable or continued learning..... As I am reminded on the forums constantly....

As far as backing someone... or stake horsing... That is never for the weak of heart or for the regular 9-5 guys.....

As far as staking Cliff... You look at it 1 of 2 ways... You threw him A bone or you are making an investment....

If you are throwing him a bone... Good for you.. I like seeing him in action and I'd toss a benjamin in if needed... But if you are making an investment it's about transparency... I send Cliff 4k... But Joe, John, and Jim do as well.... He now has a 12k Stake..... His best bet would be to go 2 and out in the tourney so there was no payback expected and use the extra juice to gamble and roll.........

It's been done before so unless you get to know who and for how much you have to be a little on the leery side..... I think one of the old school players was infamous for selling his cue to about 10 different people during the tourney and thanks to Bob Meucci and the trunk of the said player's car everyone went home happy at most tourneys...

Chris

Every one has his/her own way of spending money. I have not seen him on the leaders top 32 board in a while in any major competition, he is just probably unlucky; do i like Cliff sure i do, do i like Efren sure i do, but i would not give them my hard earned money without some kind of considerable odd that i will get it back. Having said that i bet you $100 he would not makes it to top 8 in 9 or 10 ball match where all top pros are in, and i hope he does.
 
Hello Angry Gary Lutman,

You are right you don't know me. You don't know what sort of "living" I am making "off" this game. You don't know what I have done in this game, for the game, for the players, or anything about me. Yet you presume to tell me what kind of a living I am making and how I should spend my money.

Now you're getting on my nerves when you presume to tell me about pros and the "value" of their contribution to the game of pool or billiards. I am POSITIVE that I have tested that value in more ways that you can imagine.

You OBVIOUSLY chose not to read my last replies so let me remind you, I have given money, paid rent for, got stuff out of hock for, sent cases and cues and cash, opened my home, loaned money, backed, arranged exhibitions and clinics for, made flyers and posters for, made letterhead for, printed business cards for, made bio cards for, set up on-demand photo printing systems for, and done everything else except wipe their ass for pro these past 20 years.

So don't presume to tell me I don't know the value of the pros. In FACT if you would choose to READ instead of react you would find I am ON YOUR SIDE from the first post I made in this thread.

But if you want to IGNORE reality then that's your choice. At the end of the day the market IS exactly where it deserves to be. Professional players ARE getting paid exactly what they are worth. Like water every market finds it's level and every person gets paid exactly what they are worth.

In my 25+ years in this industry I have RARELY seen a professional player actively promote their sponsors. VERY VERY VERY rarely.

I gave you some veyr good suggestions of what could be done but you ignore them and focus on me hinting at Cliff's reputation.

Well get over it, Cliff Joyner has a reputation as a bite man who doesn't pay back the loans people give him. If you think that he or his rep could come on this forum and that reputation wouldn't be brought up then you are the one being foolish.

This discussion though has gone beyond Cliff and into what can pros do for themselves to make money that doesn't require simply asking for backing. That's the part you are missing here, the CONSTRUCTIVE part.

And road stories? Well guess what we iggies LOVE road stories and we pay for them. I bought Pool Wars, Rags to Rifleman, Freddie's books, the Cornbread Red Book, Winning One Pocket, Grady's book, McGoorty, Fat's book, Danny D's book, Bicycle Willie's book, and will buy Keith's book. In fact I think I have bought every pool book published with road stories in them.

CJ Wiley has been here for almost a year now telling us road stories for free........AND selling his videos and now personal instruction......that's how a pro does it. Let me capitalize that for you, that's how a PRO does it.

So save it telling me what pros are worth. And don't try to spend my money for me either. Cliff Joyner and ALL top pros have enormous money making ability in their arms and heads. Not my fault if they don't want to use those abilities. I know what I would do if I had them.

John, I tried to rep you for this one, but I have to spread the love first! :p
 
You weren't at Breaktime in Granite City when Bob Sr. and Dick Weaver both got the 8 and didn't like it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw Gary play a few times in Paducah....Lets just say....Gary liked it ;) and kept coming back....and strangely just BARELY won (every time) :rolleyes:

Ken
 
Gary,
Do you currently owe anyone money in the pool world or have you ever put the bite on anyone? This might explain your staunch defense of Cliff.

I loaned Gary money once, and the first thing he did when I ran into him again was pay me. Gary is the first and only road player to pay me back.
 
The lot of professional pool players must be improving somehow. Previously, the forum Drama Queen described professional pool players as "Dancing Monkeys." Now she jokingly calls them "pariahs and no-good bums."

I guess I have a different view than JAM too.

As long as they player and stake horse can make near a 50/50 split (60/40 okay too) then I don't see a problem or issue.

I wish I was a "Dancing Monkey" with a stakehorse.....:sorry:

Its been my experience and I have always been told that it usually turns out bad for the stake horse, the player had nothing to loose. The stake horse has to dodge dumps, double dumps, bad rolls, luck, or just missing.

The joke goes, "Wanna know how to make a millionaire out of stake horse? Start with a Billionaire.....:angry:"

Ken
 
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I guess I have a different view than JAM too.

As long as they player and stake horse can make near a 50/50 split (60/40 okay too) then I don't see a problem or issue.

I wish I was a "Dancing Monkey" with a stakehorse.....:sorry:

Its been my experience and I have always been told that it usually turns out bad for the stake horse, the player had nothing to loose. The stake horse has to dodge dumps, double dumps, bad rolls, luck, or just missing.

The joke goes, "Wanna know how to make a millionaire out of stake horse? Start with a Billionaire.....:angry:"

Ken

The last time Keith broached the idea of getting staked for an exhibiton or challenge match, whatever you want to call it, the offer at that time, which I was told was the "norm," was Keith 20 percent, stakehorse 80 percent. Keith declined the kind offer. :rolleyes:
 
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