Cliff Joyner looking for sponsors

[houmatroy]

QUOTE=houmatroy;4182705]Iook...Cliff's not looking for a gambling stake...He is looking for a shot at the tournement...He is still a dangerous horse with a shot in any tourny he enters...I've heard all the stories & witnessed a few first hand but in this case it's betting on a horse at the horse race...If you like his chances bet..if you don't pass...all the other stuff can be saved for another day and another dicussion...I watched cliff in New Orleans run $300 into almost 20k and blow it all back playing craps...Most people would have never give themselves the chance to get 20k up much less blow it back...people like Cliff need a money responsible person pulling the strings...I've been on both sides the fence & gambling & tournements are 2 diff beast altogether...justr my 2 cents.

Says it all...

PS.. Sure hope his backers were paid first.[/QUOTE]

Was on his own..That's why he played it all back...People like Cliff get off on the action..not the money that's won by it....Seen it too many times....it's like a pitbull thinking he can beat a grizzly bear...Gotta love the heart even tho common sense knows the real time of the clock.

 

[lfigueroa]

Good points. It's like the difference between the guy just holding his hand out on the street corner vs the crew washing cars or baking cookies to raise the monies they need.

Lou Figueroa


People don't pay good money Lou to drive hundreds of miles , Get an expensive room , Watch the monitors in the luxury of their room for 10 day's to watch for the time's of their favorite beggars matches.........................
Gary Lutman

Do you think you are telling me something I'm not familiar with?

Having paid my way to play in a dozen DCCs and half a dozen US Opens (as well as lots of smaller events) I understand the finances of attending tournaments just fine. I've also gotten myself out to NYC just to sweat a couple of events.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

If Cliff can turn 300 into 20 K, it shouldn't be too hard to turn 200 into 4K.

If he doesn't have 200, not too much can be done about that.

And if he can blow 20 K on the craps table, even if he does happen to win at Tunica, it sounds like he would
be broke in short order anyway.

I'm pretty careful with my investments. When I throw my money around, I want to get some pleasure from it or see a return.

I've made many bad choices in life and I have had to suck the big one for it many times too.

I am in the position now where I can work part time and play pool 5 nights a week.

I've also paid for that priveledge. If a guy doesn't have 4 K in the bank to take a holiday, simple, stay
home.

I don't chase Pro players away from AZ, I'm glad for the ones that are here. But I also don't believe that
any of them should get free passes for the life style that they have chosen either.

 

[JB Cases]

My recollection is that you did not have permission to have an alias, Wilson banned you, and then ex post facto, you were able to persuade Mike to reinstate you.

Lou Figueroa

Well, there is a reason you don't bet much. It's not your recollection that is faulty it's your lack of knowledge leading you speculate.

John, Despite your blustering about being on the high ground, you're actually standing on quick sand.

Again deflecting from the actual breaking of the rules that you committed in THIS thread.

Answer the question, do you think it's ok for YOU to break the rules.

Since telling the truth has never been one of your better qualities, here's a refresher on what Wilson thinks about you:

"My opinion is that despite what you have to offer the forum, the burden of having to put up with your ego, the boat rocking, the inability to coexist with people whom you consider trolls...etc..etc..etc...out weighs the positive.
Add to the list, you feel compelled to always have the last word in any setting.

I have no more interest in what you think .

When people report you and complain, I'll look. If you're breaking rules, I'll adress it.

In the mean time, unless you are reporting specific rules violations, I have nothing left for you.

You really do under estimate how many people dislike the personna you present.

Even if you're "staying focused", your manner is so distasteful, I want nothing to do with it.

See John, from my point of view, you see AZB as your own personal internet version of the kids game , "King of the mountain" and to climb to the top it is ok to push and throw people around and continue once you think you're king of the mountain.

If it was a contest, vote people off the island as has been mentioned....you would have been gone a very long time ago as I have received more complaints about YOU than maybe any other single user in my tenure."​

Except that Wilson is wrong and in several polls I was not voted off the island. Sure it WAS a headache to field complaints from people I argued with. I get it that people can't take it when their points are continually hammered and that when they then get personal I hammered them even more. I understand the dynamic at play.

But again this is about YOU, here and now.

You attacked Jennie, called her names, and quoted her out of context to harass her. Those are clear violations of the present rules committed now. So what do you think should happen to you as a rule breaker?

YOU made it a point of following people around and reporting their rule breaking and so I ask you again if YOU think it's ok that you break the rules?

Thanks for the correction. I didn't see any quotation marks on the last paragraph. :embarrassed2:

 

[JB Cases]

No, I'm telling you that I won't sit here and let you try to pull the "woe is me/them" because they choose to play pool. It isn't like it's a freakin secret that there are no benefits and no vacation time. You're asking for pity and respect at the same time for a group of people that consistently make horrible choices and spend their money like there's no tomorrow. It isn't like "the man" is holding them down. THEY are holding them down. Yet you and he still have the nerve to try to insult the forum members he's trying to pull the cash from.

Maybe I should ask for money for my next tournament. After I make some money playing, I should come back and ask yet again.

By the way, you never did answer my question, I think.

If Cliff was given the money, even if he won, how much longer do you think it would be before he was back asking for money again?

If he won and returned a profit to his investors I would hope he would be back soon asking for money.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

I don't get it ..............

Do you think you are telling me something I'm not familiar with?

Having paid my way to play in a dozen DCCs and half a dozen US Opens (as well as lots of smaller events) I understand the finances of attending tournaments just fine. I've also gotten myself out to NYC just to sweat a couple of events.

Lou Figueroa

Then why Lou do you get you jolly's putting people down ?

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Good !!!!!!!!!

If Cliff can turn 300 into 20 K, it shouldn't be too hard to turn 200 into 4K.

If he doesn't have 200, not too much can be done about that.

And if he can blow 20 K on the craps table, even if he does happen to win at Tunica, it sounds like he would
be broke in short order anyway.

I'm pretty careful with my investments. When I throw my money around, I want to get some pleasure from it or see a return.

I've made many bad choices in life and I have had to suck the big one for it many times too.

I am in the position now where I can work part time and play pool 5 nights a week.

I've also paid for that priveledge. If a guy doesn't have 4 K in the bank to take a holiday, simple, stay
home.

I don't chase Pro players away from AZ, I'm glad for the ones that are here. But I also don't believe that
any of them should get free passes for the life style that they have chosen either.

I hope you are enjoying getting to play so much , Your post seem's fair to me. Good Luck with your pool game !!

 

[JB Cases]

Gary... WOW.. You just solved one of pools hardest riddles.

There is no way a pool player can make a living at pool when all their winnings go the the "dentist" to keep those teeth sharp for the next "bite".
LOL

PS..Hardest job... Our military defending our rights to have discussions like this.

Don

+1 on hardest job. People who go out to get shot at and blown up while defending the constitution have the toughest job for sure.

Professional Pool isn't even on the list of hard jobs. Let's not get too carried away here. It's not paying what it should in comparison to other professional sports but it's not tough either. Most olympic athletes who have to sacrifice everything to achieve the pinnacle of competition are poor and make less than pool players. Unlike pool players there isn't an active broad base of paying tournaments of discus throwers or a bunch of javelin hurlers willing to match up for the cash. Nor is there a willing throng of thousands of league players willing to pay nicely for lessons.

ANY professional player could EASILY make good money giving lessons. If Cliff can't make $100 an hour giving one pocket lessons he should just quit right now. Two hours a night of "work" five days a week brings in $4000 a month. $48000 a year is a damn good living for two hours work per day. Any top pro who can't book ten hours of lessons a week shouldn't consider themselves a pro player. Teachers struggle in the USA living on $25,000 a year, many people struggle on less than that.

So let's cut the bullshit here.

If you're a pro then you have more money making OPPORTUNITIES that most people. You have a skill that people pay to see, pay to compete against, and pay to learn from.

Coaches here in China stay busy with dozens and hundreds of students paying them $16 an hour or more. For the most dedicated students they actually have contracts to be full time coaches for 10% of the tournament winnings. And the coaches also arrange money matches by finding backers for their players and take 10% of that if the players win. All around it's a good deal. So any pro player in the USA could make similar arrangements but they won't.

No one thinks outside the damn box and makes it happen. Look at Geno, traveling around the country in his motor home giving lessons, snapping off local tournaments, gambling lightly and generally making a living doing what he wants to do. If he can do that then why in the world would any bonafide professional player not be able to do even better?

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Bullshit !!!!!!!!!!

+1 on hardest job. People who go out to get shot at and blown up while defending the constitution have the toughest job for sure.

Professional Pool isn't even on the list of hard jobs. Let's not get too carried away here. It's not paying what it should in comparison to other professional sports but it's not tough either. Most olympic athletes who have to sacrifice everything to achieve the pinnacle of competition are poor and make less than pool players. Unlike pool players there isn't an active broad base of paying tournaments of discus throwers or a bunch of javelin hurlers willing to match up for the cash. Nor is there a willing throng of thousands of league players willing to pay nicely for lessons.

ANY professional player could EASILY make good money giving lessons. If Cliff can't make $100 an hour giving one pocket lessons he should just quit right now. Two hours a night of "work" five days a week brings in $4000 a month. $48000 a year is a damn good living for two hours work per day. Any top pro who can't book ten hours of lessons a week shouldn't consider themselves a pro player. Teachers struggle in the USA living on $25,000 a year, many people struggle on less than that.

So let's cut the bullshit here.

If you're a pro then you have more money making OPPORTUNITIES that most people. You have a skill that people pay to see, pay to compete against, and pay to learn from.

Coaches here in China stay busy with dozens and hundreds of students paying them $16 an hour or more. For the most dedicated students they actually have contracts to be full time coaches for 10% of the tournament winnings. And the coaches also arrange money matches by finding backers for their players and take 10% of that if the players win. All around it's a good deal. So any pro player in the USA could make similar arrangements but they won't.

No one thinks outside the damn box and makes it happen. Look at Geno, traveling around the country in his motor home giving lessons, snapping off local tournaments, gambling lightly and generally making a living doing what he wants to do. If he can do that then why in the world would any bonafide professional player not be able to do even better?

Totally agree about the armed forces. I didn't know you were Chinese. I did like your cases , Not so sure now . What do you pay an hour to make your cases ?

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Well thanks for that Wolf. Unfortunately, I wish that I could be half as good as some of the Pros. At 55, I know that will never happen. I can just try and improve as much as I can.

I'm not trying to be hard on the Pros exactly, as I know what it's like to be on the road too.

I owned a tractor trailer unit and know what it's like to eat crappy food daily in truck stops and sleep under a sleeping bag in a diesel stinky cab and sleeper. The only option was to
Stink up the cab with cheap air freshener.

What was stated in a couple of posts that if there were any other Pros on here asking for a leg up, then people might consider it.

Unfortunately, Cliff does have a bit of a reputation that does proceed him.
That's no ones fault but his.

AZ members are not A Holes. I can remember many instances when one of the members
have been down on their luck and people here have banded together regardless of past
disagreements and have helped out someone that is thousands of miles away and they have no idea of who they are other than being a member of AZ.

Now to me, that is something that will give anyone a bit of faith in humanity again.

AZ to many is like an extended Family and like I said, I have witnessed acts of kindness many times.

This isn't the case here where Cliff is down on his luck, starving or in fear of being evicted. To be honest, one of the first things that went thru my mind was, this guy has the money, he just doesn't want to use it and would rather have someone else foot the bill.

See, that comes from the stories that you read and that is also something that no one
Can do anything about, other than Cliff himself.

As a side, I have also traveled across North America on Trailways or a Hound, slept in the back of semi trailers and cheap
Motels going from job to job. Far from the luxury of an airplane and an air conditioned Harrahs.

 

[Bigtruck]

Well thanks for that Wolf. Unfortunately, I wish that I could be half as good as some of the Pros. At 55, I know that will never happen. I can just try and improve as much as I can.

I'm not trying to be hard on the Pros exactly, as I know what it's like to be on the road too.

I owned a tractor trailer unit and know what it's like to eat crappy food daily in truck stops and sleep under a sleeping bag in a diesel stinky cab and sleeper. The only option was to
Stink up the cab with cheap air freshener.

What was stated in a couple of posts that if there were any other Pros on here asking for a leg up, then people might consider it.

Unfortunately, Cliff does have a bit of a reputation that does proceed him.
That's no ones fault but his.

AZ members are not A Holes. I can remember many instances when one of the members
have been down on their luck and people here have banded together regardless of past
disagreements and have helped out someone that is thousands of miles away and they have no idea of who they are other than being a member of AZ.

Now to me, that is something that will give anyone a bit of faith in humanity again.

This isn't the case here where Cliff is down on his luck, starving or in fear of being evicted. To be honest, one of the first things that went thru my mind was, this guy has the money, he just doesn't want to use it and would rather have someone else foot the bill.

See, that comes from the stories that you read and that is also something that no one
Can do anything about, other than Cliff himself.

Do you have a product for Cliff to advertise? NO
Are you interested as a backer for a %? NO

So what are your motives to come in this thread and keep trying to say Cliff is asking for a handout to take a vacation? Nevermind. I already know.

Ray

 

[lfigueroa]

Well, there is a reason you don't bet much. It's not your recollection that is faulty it's your lack of knowledge leading you speculate.

My recollection is fine and you know it, the public record shows you are wrong and you know it ;-) IF you have other facts that pertain, spit them out.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

What are my motives Ray?

I dunno, just to be a Hater and Key Board Cowboy as par usual according to you.

Really, maybe just to express my feelings on the subject honestly.

I did my good deed helping out a member last week that I felt is far more deserving than sending a spend thrift to a tournament.

My team won the Vegas tourney, no one was going and we took the cash. I split my Vegas winnings with a guy that I have no idea who he is other than a nice guy from his posts.

And ya know what's more important than anything else? I could care less whether I ever get paid back, that wasn't the issue, I made a friend.

If you think you know me Ray, don't try to, you obviously don't and probably never will.

 

[lfigueroa]

Then why Lou do you get you jolly's putting people down ?

Show me where I have gotten a single "jolly."

Having a different opinion than yours is not a crime. Welcome to the internet.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

My recollection is fine and you know it, the public record shows you are wrong and you know it ;-) IF you have other facts that pertain, spit them out.

Lou Figueroa

You recollection is based on your uninformed speculation. And there are no facts which you are not privy to that pertain to THIS discussion in this thread. I am under no obligation to reveal to you anything that doesn't concern you. However if you want to bet for a donation to the Cliff Joyner fund then I will bet $500 that you are wrong (again).

Let's both send $500 to JoeyA via paypal and I will present my proof and Joey will send the winner $500 back and the other $500 to Cliff's tournament fund.

The only fact that is relevant now is that your friend PoolSharkAllen is breaking the rules that he reports others for breaking.

I will ask you the same question I asked him. Is it ok for him to break the rules on name-calling and harassment?

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Lou's going down in history now.

Lou, The Jolly Man Figueroa.

See, that's all you were lacking Lou, a good nick name.
Now when they introduce you at the DCC, it's gonna be a completely different story.

 

[lfigueroa]

You recollection is based on your uninformed speculation. And there are no facts which you are not privy to that pertain to THIS discussion in this thread. I am under no obligation to reveal to you anything that doesn't concern you. However if you want to bet for a donation to the Cliff Joyner fund then I will bet $500 that you are wrong (again).

Let's both send $500 to JoeyA via paypal and I will present my proof and Joey will send the winner $500 back and the other $500 to Cliff's tournament fund.

The only fact that is relevant now is that your friend PoolSharkAllen is breaking the rules that he reports others for breaking.

I will ask you the same question I asked him. Is it ok for him to break the rules on name-calling and harassment?

lol. Another JB special. Your prop would be pretty stupid to take on my part. All I have to go on is what was said in public and to that end you had no permission, got banned, and got reinstated.

This is really simple: Mike -- did John have your permission to create the alias "Roadie" irrespective of forum rules? I know you don't owe anyone any explanation as to how you run your site, but I recall you said, after the fact, that John talked his way back in after being banned. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but that's how I remember it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou's going down in history now.

Lou, The Jolly Man Figueroa.

See, that's all you were lacking Lou, a good nick name.
Now when they introduce you at the DCC, it's gonna be a completely different story.

I'm not fat enough (yet) to be jolly

Lou Figueroa

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

You don't have to be fat to be Jolly. Just practise the Ho Ho Ho and do that every time you drop a ball. It will catch on.

Can you imagine, every time you pocket a ball, you let out a big Ho Ho Ho.

 

[lfigueroa]

You don't have to be fat to be Jolly. Just practise the Ho Ho Ho and do that every time you drop a ball. It will catch on.

Can you imagine, every time you pocket a ball, you let out a big Ho Ho Ho.

ummmm, no.

Lou Figueroa