Cnc Router set-up question/ ID and value estimate

T

thubosky

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I apologize I don't have any pictures right now. But my buddy bought out a pool cue maker's shop, Donald Moyer from Harrisburg, PA. Not sure how well known he is?? He is in the blue book of cues. He acquired a cnc router that is on an aluminum bed that looks like a lathe.(sorry I don't know a whole lot about cue making). I read on one of the motors or router that said Pacific Scientific. And also I thought the router said Rigid or actually maybe Ryobi. I'm wondering what the value would be for this like a min and max for a cnc router and it's supposed to be controlled by a computer and program I guess, but this stuff is missing. What type of computer and program is needed to so inlay work on cues?? My friend said it runs with a very slow computer?? He's been building cues for years just never got into a lot of inlay work and was hoping to get this going.
Thanks a lot!
Tim
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Tim, please don't be offended. You have asked a few questions that could not possibly be answered without more information. I will start off with "you would need different setups for turning a cue ver. inlays". There are some special machines ex, Cue monster, that will do both. Without pictures and more information I doubt you will get much help. I recommend that you have your buddy open an account here on AZ and ask his questions directly. I hope he has some general knowledge of cue building or he will most likely get frustrated.

Jim.
 
Yea I understand without pics it's going to be hard. I do know it's a cnc router setup for doing inlays on cues. The previous owner did some nice inlay work, like I said he was in one of the blue book of cues I guess. So I think it could be a decent setup. And my buddy isn't really computer savvy so that's why I am posting. He has a bunch of lathes all for different cue building steps. He's been building for many, many years. Ill have to post some of his work. But since we are missing the computer and computer program for this cnc router we aren't able to figure it out. And are curious of the value range of some of these setups and what it would cost to get the computer items to run it?
Ill definitely work on getting pictures for you guys.
Thanks again,
Tim
 
You really need to snap some pictures and post them so we can help you with the correct information.
 
thubosky said:
Yea I understand without pics it's going to be hard. I do know it's a cnc router setup for doing inlays on cues. The previous owner did some nice inlay work, like I said he was in one of the blue book of cues I guess. So I think it could be a decent setup. And my buddy isn't really computer savvy so that's why I am posting. He has a bunch of lathes all for different cue building steps. He's been building for many, many years. Ill have to post some of his work. But since we are missing the computer and computer program for this cnc router we aren't able to figure it out. And are curious of the value range of some of these setups and what it would cost to get the computer items to run it?
Ill definitely work on getting pictures for you guys.
Thanks again,
Tim
Click to expand...

You can get Dell barebones PC with a 17" monitor from eBay for less than $500.00.
On the other hand you mentioned the word Ryobi or Ridgid, nothing wrong with those routers, except for the fact they were never designed for a CNC and their runout without precise collets (specially the Ridgid) is terrible.
On the good side people like Jim and other AZB'ers have a tremendous amount of knowledge in the CNC area and they can probably help your friend out.
Follow Chris Hightower's advice and post some pictures of the equipment and take it from there.
 
I read on one of the motors or router that said Pacific Scientific.

Hello,

Im not a cue maker. However I have worked on Pacific Scientific Motion systems. you really need to post pictures of your control system. Especially the Motors nameplate. and the control box name plate. If the Box that runs the motor is PacSci it probably runs on a DOS architecture. Since your friend says it runs on a very slow computer I would assume this. New processors can run faster than old devices can read causing major issues. That's why you would need a slower computer. This will hurt your value not for the pain of finding a computer but because replacement parts are going to be scarce and pricey. Some of the AI Brick controllers at my work are 15+ years old and cost 10G's apiece if you can find them. This is my two cents hope it helps.

Matthew
 
Thanks for the pic', and they will help to get you some decent information.

First, the machine.
It's a little tough to tell, but from the pictures, it looks like the Y axis, the one that would move side to side across the cue, has some sort of linear rail to guide it's movement. I'm assuming the X axis, the one that move length wise down the cue, has the same type of guides. The Z axis, which is the router up and down, appears to be on some sort of dovetail probably removed from a small mill or some other type of equipment.

These guides are crucial in the performance of the machine. Any play will result in inaccuracies that will drive you nuts, so make sure they are all tight and you can't get any "wiggle" or play in any of the moving members.

If that's good, now it's on to the lead screws. These are the screws, turned by the stepper motors, that move each of the axis. They need to be smooth and tight with no play between them and the nuts they are threaded into. They also have to be mounted to the machine with no slop or play. Play in either of these locations is backlash and will cause problems with machining inlays.

As for controls, basically it looks like this machine was run with an older type of control. I would recommend, because you don't have the control as it is, to just buy a new one. I would recommend a Gecko G540 and the corresponding motors. There are several suppliers of turn key controls for reasonable cost. I have purchased from www.deepgroove1.com in the past and had good luck with them.

The software that most use to run the machine is known as Mach3, and can be downloaded from www.machsupport.com. The license is pretty cheap too. I strongly suggest finding and downloading the mach3 user guides from that site. You will need to read them several times, and keep them handy for future reference.

After all that, you'll need a CAD/CAM software to draw geometry and create G-code for those images. BobCad is probably the most common among cue makers. It's certainly not the biggest or baddest, but it's adequate for cues, and there are many other out there you can talk too that use the software.


If you've never done anything with CNC before and you're thinking about undertaking this adventure, just be prepared. It's certainly doable by most anyone with reasonable intelligence and mechanical skills, but it's also equivalent to trying to get a drink from a fire hose. There will be more coming at you than you can fathom, and certainly more than you can digest at first.

Good luck and have fun!
 
Looks like parts off a Max NC that were used to build the Z Axis. Don't see the controller but if it is a Max then that would explain the slow computer used to run the system in Dos.
 
cnc machine

I'd check the stepper motors over closely. Looks like the lead screws are coupled
directly to the stepper motor. The stepper motor bearings are taking all the load
from the ball screw. Quickly wears out the motors
 
cutter said:
I'd check the stepper motors over closely. Looks like the lead screws are coupled
directly to the stepper motor. The stepper motor bearings are taking all the load
from the ball screw. Quickly wears out the motors
Click to expand...

Oh crap, I guess mine are worn out on all my machines as they are all coupled directly to the lead screws....as they are have been on every machine I have ever seen.
 
Brickcues said:
Oh crap, I guess mine are worn out on all my machines as they are all coupled directly to the lead screws....as they are have been on every machine I have ever seen.
Click to expand...

Stepping around your sarcasm for a moment (so as not to get it on my shoes), I think you misunderstood Steve's point. Nothing wrong with coupling the motors directly to the lead screw, as I am sure he knows - though most will incorporate a flexible coupler in the mix. But if the lead screw does NOT have its own end-load-capable bearings then the only thing absorbing the lateral forces are the motor bearings, and THAT will definitely wear them out fast.

Even really good ball bearings are only rated for relatively small end loads; specialized pairs of bearings having tapered or angular race offsets are used in any decent drive screw system to avoid destroying motors, and unless you cobbled your machines together the way this one seems to have been your slides almost certainly have such bearings.

TW

 
RBC said:
Thanks for the pic', and they will help to get you some decent information.

First, the machine.
It's a little tough to tell, but from the pictures, it looks like the Y axis, the one that would move side to side across the cue, has some sort of linear rail to guide it's movement. I'm assuming the X axis, the one that move length wise down the cue, has the same type of guides. The Z axis, which is the router up and down, appears to be on some sort of dovetail probably removed from a small mill or some other type of equipment.

These guides are crucial in the performance of the machine. Any play will result in inaccuracies that will drive you nuts, so make sure they are all tight and you can't get any "wiggle" or play in any of the moving members.

If that's good, now it's on to the lead screws. These are the screws, turned by the stepper motors, that move each of the axis. They need to be smooth and tight with no play between them and the nuts they are threaded into. They also have to be mounted to the machine with no slop or play. Play in either of these locations is backlash and will cause problems with machining inlays.

As for controls, basically it looks like this machine was run with an older type of control. I would recommend, because you don't have the control as it is, to just buy a new one. I would recommend a Gecko G540 and the corresponding motors. There are several suppliers of turn key controls for reasonable cost. I have purchased from www.deepgroove1.com in the past and had good luck with them.

The software that most use to run the machine is known as Mach3, and can be downloaded from www.machsupport.com. The license is pretty cheap too. I strongly suggest finding and downloading the mach3 user guides from that site. You will need to read them several times, and keep them handy for future reference.

After all that, you'll need a CAD/CAM software to draw geometry and create G-code for those images. BobCad is probably the most common among cue makers. It's certainly not the biggest or baddest, but it's adequate for cues, and there are many other out there you can talk too that use the software.


If you've never done anything with CNC before and you're thinking about undertaking this adventure, just be prepared. It's certainly doable by most anyone with reasonable intelligence and mechanical skills, but it's also equivalent to trying to get a drink from a fire hose. There will be more coming at you than you can fathom, and certainly more than you can digest at first.

Good luck and have fun!
Click to expand...

Thanks Royce and everyone else for the input. Either my buddy will want to get all of the parts and get it going or I might buy it and use it. How much would it cost to buy everything it needs based off the pictures to start doing inlays in cues? And what would the value of this be as is? And is this an ancient machine? Or is it still desirable for cue building?
Thanks,
Tim
 
thubosky said:
Thanks Royce and everyone else for the input. Either my buddy will want to get all of the parts and get it going or I might buy it and use it. How much would it cost to buy everything it needs based off the pictures to start doing inlays in cues? And what would the value of this be as is? And is this an ancient machine? Or is it still desirable for cue building?
Thanks,
Tim
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Tim

Those questions are impossible to answer.

We don't know the state of the machine, and couldn't without really seeing it. I mentioned that the screws fit to the nuts needs to be tight, the linear guides, which we really don't even know what it has, need to be tight with no play. Do the screws have linear support bearings of some sort?

Keep in mind that all that can be provided to you here in this forum is information. You get to go to your machine and use that information to see how far you can get before needing more information. If you're wanting someone here to do the work for you, then I don't think you'll find what you're looking for. If you would like one of us to look at your machine, determine what it needs, make an estimate to bring it back to life, that can be done for a fee. If you were to send the machine to me for an estimate of what it would take to get it running again, my fee would be $100 per hour. You could figure on 4 hours to get a proper assessment and put together an estimate. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time for a project like this right now. I have 4 machines on the table right now that are for my company, and at least 6 others that need to be designed, built and put into service.

I'm not trying to be ugly or even come across as harsh, but this is not something that can be done easily without expense. The best way would be for you to do some research into the areas I already pointed out and learn.

I wish you success in your CNC venture, I really do. I was once in a similar situation and had to go out and learn what I needed to know. Believe me when I tell you it's the best way.
 
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my opinion is this.

for someone with little to no knowledge its useless

for someone with lots of knowledge its likely useless as they will want to get it proper and that would require alot of time and expense.

Best bet....Let Ebay decide its value. You might be surprised
 
LGSM3 said:
my opinion is this.

for someone with little to no knowledge its useless

for someone with lots of knowledge its likely useless as they will want to get it proper and that would require alot of time and expense.

Best bet....Let Ebay decide its value. You might be surprised
Click to expand...

You know what Jake.

That's the best advice I've heard.

If the guy really wants to do inlay, there are some turn key options available. Just sell that thing and buy one that already works.

Royce
 
RBC said:
You know what Jake.

That's the best advice I've heard.

If the guy really wants to do inlay, there are some turn key options available. Just sell that thing and buy one that already works.

Royce
Click to expand...

So it would almost be cheaper to get a newer inlay machine than to get this one going? It's my friend's machine. I was thinking of getting my feet wet with cue building eventually and thought this might be good to have on the back burner.

So it can't be valued at all? I'm just wondering in case he throws me a price of $500 if its worth it or if it's only worth $100??
 
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