Coaching Options in New York (Manhattan)

[Jude Rosenstock]

I agree Bob,

Some pro caliber players couldn't teach another how to rack properly. Other pro players are excellent teachers. Tony Robles, in fact, IS the best teacher in NY, despite being a wonderful player. My experience has shown me that some players who teach misss the little details, often times because it is "automatic" to them, and therefor makes them ineffective as teachers. The players who take the time to show and explain what others take for granted or do subconciously, are undoubtedlty better teachers.

Also, the best players dont always make the best coaches. It happens in every sport. Some terrific baseball coaches, like buck showlater, never made it in the majors. Van gundy in basketball? many NFL coaches too. The point is, that just because the teacher cant perform on a world class level, doesnt mean they don't understand the game, and teach it very well. Case in point.... Thorsten Hohmann's german coach, Michael Wahl, easily the most succesful and renowned coach in that country, can hardly play a lick. But his insight, and attention to detail is incredible.

Anyone, at any level, looking to better their game, would be well advised to spend as much time with Tony robles on a 9fter, as possible!

rg

Ps, ABC, being my home room, I am also aware of the other teachers in NY, like rolando, chris lynch, SJM, etc. All of them are fine teachers too.

Actually, an interesting baseball analogy would be to point to someone like Bill Buckner (a New York hero) who is now a fielding instructor. You ARE right about coaching. Lou Tosado has shown to be an excellent coach for his son and he rarely picks up a cue.

However, for instruction, there are concepts and shots that need to be properly executed in order for a student to grasp the lesson. Pool is really really hard at times and there are subtle details that amateur players simply don't see (and I'll quickly include myself on that list). You want someone who has a bank of knowledge pertaining to professional competition. You want someone who is going to be able to say, "Yeah, this is how I got ball-in-hand off of Nick Varner when I was in a similar situation" and be able to explain to you how he conceived this shot and show you the shot.

 

[jay helfert]

Actually, an interesting baseball analogy would be to point to someone like Bill Buckner (a New York hero) who is now a fielding instructor. You ARE right about coaching. Lou Tosado has shown to be an excellent coach for his son and he rarely picks up a cue.

However, for instruction, there are concepts and shots that need to be properly executed in order for a student to grasp the lesson. Pool is really really hard at times and there are subtle details that amateur players simply don't see (and I'll quickly include myself on that list). You want someone who has a bank of knowledge pertaining to professional competition. You want someone who is going to be able to say, "Yeah, this is how I got ball-in-hand off of Nick Varner when I was in a similar situation" and be able to explain to you how he conceived this shot and show you the shot.

Or "This is how I sold out to T-Rex three consecutive games at 300 a pop."

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Lou Tosado has shown to be an excellent coach for his son and he rarely picks up a cue.

According to a paragraph accompanying a youtube video I saw, apparently posted by Lou, the young Mr. Tosado considers someone named Stu something-or-other to be his mentor. Maybe that was just Lou being modest and deflecting credit, but this particular non New Yorker took it into account when giving advice earlier in this thread.

-Andrew

 

[Williebetmore]

According to a paragraph accompanying a youtube video I saw, apparently posted by Lou, the young Mr. Tosado considers someone named Stu something-or-other to be his mentor. Maybe that was just Lou being modest and deflecting credit, but this particular non New Yorker took it into account when giving advice earlier in this thread.

-Andrew

AM,
A player who has been #1 in the world told me that any advice offered by that particular gentleman should be heeded. True students of the game are somewhat rare, and their knowledge can be extremely helpful.

 

[kaznj]

I have taken lessons from both Tony and SJM. They are both great guys, and great teachers. Nobody can questions Tony's skill as a player and as a teacher. He does both extremely well. SJM does not make his living from the game. He loves it and will share his knowledge with anyone who asks. Because this is Tony's soursce of income he may easier to get a lesson from. SJM has a full time job away from the game and it may be more difficult to get time with him. SJM is great at tactics. He is not the guy to go to with a flaw in your stroke. If you want to learn tactics, safeties, patterns either player will help you. You can't go wrong with either person. I think Tony is now charging about $80 and hour. SJM should be less, if he is available. Good luck

 

[td873]

You seem to be saying that only people who have been trained by Randy Goettlicher and put SPF in their advertising are capable of properly analyzing a player's mechanics.

Is that what you're saying?

I'm not sure what you are implying, or why. Don't you teach SPF?

In any case, my statement stands. Common sense would dictate that if they want independent/other evaluation, they can use whoever they want. However, in my experience, the Manhattan instructors don't believe or teach SPF. Nor do they video tape, nor do they analyze based on the mechanics of SPF. Accordingly, if any NY folks are looking for SPF, they need to outsource.

However, if you (or anyone else for that matter) have experience or understanding that there are NY instructors that do analyze on this level, feel free to let the OP know.

Cheers,


-td

 

[Bob Jewett]

I'm not sure what you are implying, or why. Don't you teach SPF? ...

I teach what I feel are proper fundamentals. I don't put some marketing label (SPF) on it. I know that some of the instructors in NYC also feel very strongly about teaching proper fundamentals. I'm surprised that you have decided to put them down -- from quite a distance -- for not following one particular school's marketing plan.

As for video taping for fundamentals analysis, that is a required part of BCA instructor training. Or at least it was until recently when the requirements for instructor training were gutted.

 

[td873]

I teach what I feel are proper fundamentals. I don't put some marketing label (SPF) on it. I know that some of the instructors in NYC also feel very strongly about teaching proper fundamentals. I'm surprised that you have decided to put them down -- from quite a distance -- for not following one particular school's marketing plan.

Bob, I'm not putting anyone down. Maybe you felt the need to find a whipping-boy for this thread, but it's not me today. I'm not denegrating the NY folks, and have the utmost respect for them. Why is it ok for everyone else to say go to "X", but inappropriate for me to present an option of SPF? Are you THAT opposed to it?

I believe you are reading too much into my post(s). I'm stating that structured SPF is not available in Manhattan. If a NYer wants SPF, they need to look outside. If they want other evaluation, it is available. Similarly, if someone wants a Ford, they can't go to the Chevy dealer. And someone stating "go to Ford" doesn't mean they are putting the Chevy dealer down as you (wrongly and repeatedly) imply.

There are plenty of good instructors in NY. I know this from personal experience. Also, I firmly believe that anyone seeking instruction should branch out and try different schools, as some "stick" whereas others don't. I believe even you have even stated as much.

For the record, however, I do disagree with your statement that SPF has no merit and is just marketing.

Lastly, your "quite a distance" statement belies your subvert ad hominim attack. If you knew me, you would know that I lived in NY for many years, survived 9/11, and moved - in 2006. I find it unessesary and belittling to imply (without any factual basis) that I am speaking without personal knowledge. The fact of the matter is I am a BCA instructor, and while living in NY I definitely knew/know who is/was teaching what. Can you state as much?

-td

edit: I didn't know there was such animosity regarding SPF by those that don't teach "it". However, please don't take this opportunity to call me out for the dissent among other BCA instructors. I believe that there is merit to solid fundamentals, no matter how they are packaged.

 

[NYC cue dude]

for the original poster, I spoke with tony today and he'd be very interested to speak with you. If ur interested, send me a pm and I'll give u his number.

And to add to this thread, being from ny, we may be a bit spoiled as far as collective talent os concerned. At any one time, we may have players like Steve lipsky, jon smith, sjm, flaco, chris lynch, Rolando aravena, danny Barouti, mika immonen, tony robles and Thorsten hohmann, all in tje same room, at the same time. All these guys are quite accesible and are willing to at the very least, answer questions and play for free. But i still believe as far as instructors go, bca or otherwise, tony is thw top teacher in ny, and also the most experienced.

Rg

 

[Travis Bickle]

JR,
Everyone knows that a true New Yawker wouldn't walk across the street to help their grandmother. We're just trying to pitch in and help....at least we didn't steer him to EightBallBernie.

Willie, wouldn't steer ya wrong, and probably not to Bernie, unless I had time to watch the lesson.

1) Granny can look out for herself. She's on rent control!
2) We MIGHT walk a blind man across the street, if nobody else steps up fast enough. But we WILL be upset if this makes us miss a train, bus or cab.
3) We we will give anybody directions, but you'd be wise to get a consensus before you walk too far.
4) WE WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PICK YOU OR ANY VISITING FAMILY MEMBER UP AT THE AIRPORT.

 

[crater59]

I got good help from Paul Schneider. He can watch you shoot for 30 min and tell you a few things about your stance/stroke and you try it out and you find out he's right. And he knows straight pool strategy at a high level. But really, if you want to learn high level strategy, get in there and bet it up. That will make you think real hard about what you're doing.

 

[VIProfessor]

As you all know, I'm not from New York, but I've been there for the last two weeks, am in possession of a Metrocard, and I've been taking some lessons from Tony while I'm up here. I can't begin to recommend him highly enough! His rates are reasonable, and he is able to focus on what you need to improve your game. He may not be a card carrying member of the SPF school, but he was quick to note when my elbow collapsed, and a leading member of the SPF school that I correspond with expressed enthusiastic approval when I told him I would be working with Tony while I'm up here.

Don't hesitate. Get in contact with Tony immediately before his schedule tightens up as the U.S. Open approaches!