quedup said:
Dan,
Dave Kikel does not use CNC, he uses a manual pantograph with the smallest cutter possible.
Cognoscenti Cues Now Available In The US
- Thread starter Eydie Romano
- Start date
Dan,
Dave Kikel does not use CNC, he uses a manual pantograph with the smallest cutter possible.
Lucky's monopoly
I guess Lucky gave Joe permission to sell his cookie cutter design .. 57 1/2" CNC productions back in the good old USA again. Aren't we lucky . Maybe we won't get hung up on you now if you ask for a little something out of the ordinary while ordering a cue built to suit your own individual taste. I hope Lucky's monopoly falls completely apart and he gets left holding the bag with these highly inflated prices along with his smiling face as he visits all of the US cue makers and talks them into only selling to him.
I guess Lucky gave Joe permission to sell his cookie cutter design .. 57 1/2" CNC productions back in the good old USA again. Aren't we lucky . Maybe we won't get hung up on you now if you ask for a little something out of the ordinary while ordering a cue built to suit your own individual taste. I hope Lucky's monopoly falls completely apart and he gets left holding the bag with these highly inflated prices along with his smiling face as he visits all of the US cue makers and talks them into only selling to him.
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classiccues said:
wrong wrong wrong! you try to inlay some of these designs. that design in my avatar took many many hours to inlay, not including the many hours of programing, and every part and pocket still has to be hand preped before the inlaying was even attempted. just to inlay this without breaking an inlay is a feat alone because the tolorances is so tight. reguardless of cnc you still have all the set-up to prepare the pockets, inlays ect... the same way "traditional" cues are done. someday when you get a chance take a trip to Josey Custom Cues, Cognoscenti, Mcworter, Wayne, Josswest ect... and see what really goes on there before you make a statement like the one i responded to.
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Worminator said:
a pantograph is a manual cnc thats all. the guys still using them don't want to make the investment in a cnc not only because of the money but mostly because of the learning curve. it takes a long while to learn the ins and outs of cnc let me tell ya. but anyway how do you think they make the templates for a pantograph? cnc
merylane said:
much longer. you're moving the stylus with your hand and that's all you can do at that time. at least with cnc while the pockets or parts are cutting you can move on to preparing butts, shafts whatever you need done. it just makes more efficient use of your time.
skins said:a pantograph is a manual cnc thats all. the guys still using them don't want to make the investment in a cnc not only because of the money but mostly because of the learning curve. it takes a long while to learn the ins and outs of cnc let me tell ya. but anyway how do you think they make the templates for a pantograph? cnc
dont want to answer the question?
yes i guess after spending thousands and dedicating their life to cue making theyre to cheap to modernize?
boy dont tell bill the panto patterns are made with a cnc.
and even if they were you still didnt say how much longer it would take on a pantograph?
oh didnt you mean " it takes a long while to learn the ins and outs of " using a pantograph?
skins said:
how many more cutters would you break? any skill involved there?
it sounds like cnc would allow someone to produce more and increase profits?
i guess that means there would be more of their work left behind when they die?
its all about numbers and as usual "time will tell" but just ask your self in 10,20 or 100yrs what would you like to own 1 of 1000 or 1 of 5000 ?
skins said:
thats funny my 86 yr old master machinist buddy told me "these modern machines are a breeze, it doesnt compare to the old days of machining using cams and cogs on the lathes and mills"
hes been a machinist since he got out of the service at age 22, he always was on the cutting edge and evolved with technology and tells of his experiance, from the days of cams to the paper reader , the card readers , nc , and cnc, all the way to the scanned.
he said " the cnc took the art out of the machinist " sure it takes skill to type but it can be learned by most.
he would always tell me hes met thousands of engineers who couldnt change a light bulb..... but sure knew what the hell they were talking about, just couldnt get it from paper to product without the help of cnc or a master machinist.
skins said:a pantograph is a manual cnc thats all. the guys still using them don't want to make the investment in a cnc not only because of the money but mostly because of the learning curve. it takes a long while to learn the ins and outs of cnc let me tell ya. but anyway how do you think they make the templates for a pantograph? cnc
You know I wanted to bite my tongue, but you sir are a moron. There have been pantograph patterns made by hand long before there were computers capable of running CNC machines.
merylane said:
the skills you mention are a form of art but the demand for the products they produced are much higher now so technology steped in and made it so they would be available to more people. as far as cuemaking you can use the technology to mass produce but some of us use it to reproduce designs that we put on paper into wood because some work would just take way too long to record any kind of profit at all.
pathman said:
first you should bite your tongue. i don't know you and you don't know me so you intimate comment will be ignored and i will gladly accept your appology. i know patterns before cnc were made by hand but allot are made by cnc today. tell me what cuemakers you know who make there own patterns and show me the intricacy of them? if you wan't to do certain design work it would be suicide to attempt to hand machine some patterns. sure you could do some things but the stuff i do would be a waste of time.
skins said:
...and a hand saw is a manual chain saw.
In Mr. Kikel's case, he really enjoys, and takes pride in, the manual inlay process. He likes to have the human element in the equation rather than hitting the start button on the computer and having a sandwich while the machine cuts the pockets or inlays.
Worminator said:
i know david. i designed a cue for him (see attached) it's on dr. wu's site. i've always said he is one of the best. i'm not saying using a pantogragh is bad at all i'm saying that if people say using a pantograph instead of cnc is better that is a bad analogy. it's like saying things are better when you use a screw driver rather than a cordless drill.
Attachments
Quit Beating Around The Bush
Yo Pathman!!
Don't be shy - tell him what you're thinking!!
pathman said:
Yo Pathman!!
Don't be shy - tell him what you're thinking!!
merylane said:
just because you use cnc doesn't mean you throw away the machining information used years ago. lathe work is still the same for most cue makers and for milling you still have to know cutter comp, push, when to use climb or conventional cutting along with a mirid of other machine techniques. you just have a better tool to do it with. and of course it's easier with todays machinery but with time come advancements which require such new machines. i wonder what george would have charged if he tried to make cues like the design in my avatar. first off that wasn't the style then and second it would have taken so long to make the pattern, not to mention the cost of it, that he would have to sell the cue for a small fortune to break even. the market wasn't there then. i think there is a better chance for it now if people can drop the stigma of cnc being a bad thing across the board.
problems
Havn't people had a lot of trouble out of his cues? I know a couple of guys who say when they bought cues from him they were very disappointed with the quality. Shaft size was not accurate, finish was bad, etc.... Chip in the g-10 pin....etc....Havent hear alot of good things considering the high cost, but that is just what I heard.
Havn't people had a lot of trouble out of his cues? I know a couple of guys who say when they bought cues from him they were very disappointed with the quality. Shaft size was not accurate, finish was bad, etc.... Chip in the g-10 pin....etc....Havent hear alot of good things considering the high cost, but that is just what I heard.