Cognoscenti Cues Now Available In The US

[cueman]

Chris,
Where can we see pics of your v-groove splices?

Joe

www.hightowercues.com
There are several on my cue gallery pages. About 75% of my early cues had v-groove points. The last cue that went out the door here was 4 v-groove points with 4 veneers with sharp pointed Mother of Pearl diamonds inlays. I should have taken pictures. Not real fancy and priced under $1000 with one shaft.
Chris

 

[ribdoner]

up
some will be and some won't be. it all depends on the maker.

Based on your 20+ posts on this thread it's obvious you'll have the last word. I have no problem with your thinking that makes you right. Do you think it's good that a fancy BLUD cue is being offered at apprx 35% of retail? Your post # 70 indicated what a good buy it was. I think it's TRAGIC. It might be good for the current buyer but how about others who bought similiar cues which were cnc embellished from the makers closer to or at retail. I'll bet they think some sadist put sand in the vaseline. Based on these facts how hard is it to admit the cnc embellished Q's have not done well on the secondary market? Have any of the top 5 cues(secondary market value) been cnc? If the Asian market is so strong why have we seen many languish on ebay these last few years? I appreciate your energy and passion in touting/defending this manufacturing method based on the linkage to your earning capability, however, I don't think you can deny the FACTS.
I have NO agenda----NONE. As a long term cue pimp I try to never take advantage of a customer ( some people think to a fault) and share my opinions with them. I've talked to and known some of the makers that have gone cnc for apprx 40 yrs. By in large the majority are good, likable guys. I'm not putting anything in print that I haven't shared with them.
CNC has its niche......just not at the upper levels of the collectable cue market. As I said before only time will tell if I'm right.

 

[skins]

Based on your 20+ posts on this thread it's obvious you'll have the last word. I have no problem with your thinking that makes you right. Do you think it's good that a fancy BLUD cue is being offered at apprx 35% of retail? Your post # 70 indicated what a good buy it was. I think it's TRAGIC. It might be good for the current buyer but how about others who bought similiar cues which were cnc embellished from the makers closer to or at retail. I'll bet they think some sadist put sand in the vaseline. Based on these facts how hard is it to admit the cnc embellished Q's have not done well on the secondary market? Have any of the top 5 cues(secondary market value) been cnc? If the Asian market is so strong why have we seen many languish on ebay these last few years? I appreciate your energy and passion in touting/defending this manufacturing method based on the linkage to your earning capability, however, I don't think you can deny the FACTS.
I have NO agenda----NONE. As a long term cue pimp I try to never take advantage of a customer ( some people think to a fault) and share my opinions with them. I've talked to and known some of the makers that have gone cnc for apprx 40 yrs. By in large the majority are good, likable guys. I'm not putting anything in print that I haven't shared with them.
CNC has its niche......just not at the upper levels of the collectable cue market. As I said before only time will tell if I'm right.

with all respect i know what you state has some "fact's". i posted in this thread because i was happy to see joe's (cognoscenti's) cues back for sale in the us that's it. go back and read the post's. i would hang out in his shop 3 or 4 days a week for 3 years and saw what most don't ever get to see. in this thread i ended up defending a "different" process in the way inlays are done in cues and felt a duty to educate the people bashing this process. i have stated that i love the traditional method of making cues most of all. i own and have owned szamboti, tascarella, southwest, hercek, shick, black, kersenbrock ect... and have a showman and searing on order now. my point was some of the designs i do are way to hard to do with conventional methods period. as far as "classic joe" saying the cue i had in my avatar could be mass produced all who know this process know that the truth which are the "fact's". the milling time alone takes many hours to cut a design like this and because of the small parts takes days to prep the pockets, inlays and to actually inlay the parts. all that has to be done without a myriad of issues including, but in no way limited to, breaking parts or pockets. look keith and i try to be as perfect as i can be. there is no "thrown" together cues here nor with cognoscenti as well and as with many other makers also. as i stated earlier with this type of design work the cnc machine really is a necessity. if people don't like the design they don't buy period. there are enough people out there for all types of cues. buy what you like not what someone else tells you to like. thanks for reading my short story, i'm done. whew... i need a beer

 

[ribdoner]

with all respect i know what you state has some "fact's". i posted in this thread because i was happy to see joe's (cognoscenti's) cues back for sale in the us that's it. go back and read the post's. i would hang out in his shop 3 or 4 days a week for 3 years and saw what most don't ever get to see. in this thread i ended up defending a "different" process in the way inlays are done in cues and felt a duty to educate the people bashing this process. i have stated that i love the traditional method of making cues most of all. i own and have owned szamboti, tascarella, southwest, hercek, shick, black, kersenbrock ect... and have a showman and searing on order now. my point was some of the designs i do are way to hard to do with conventional methods period. as far as "classic joe" saying the cue i had in my avatar could be mass produced all who know this process know that the truth which are the "fact's". the milling time alone takes many hours to cut a design like this and because of the small parts takes days to prep the pockets, inlays and to actually inlay the parts. all that has to be done without a myriad of issues including, but in no way limited to, breaking parts or pockets. look keith and i try to be as perfect as i can be. there is no "thrown" together cues here nor with cognoscenti as well and as with many other makers also. as i stated earlier with this type of design work the cnc machine really is a necessity. if people don't like the design they don't buy period. there are enough people out there for all types of cues. buy what you like not what someone else tells you to like. thanks for reading my short story, i'm done. whew... i need a beer

I'll be happy to buy you one when we meet. Have a good night

 

[bruin70]

Do you think their performance will improve on the secondary market? Do you think any cue which utilizes predominant CNC for embellishment will do as well as cues embellished in a more hands on manner? Using resale value on the secondary market as criterior are any of the top 5 CNC?

i think that only matters to people who discern the difference. however,,,if you take an extraordinary cuemaker who works in cnc, his rep and designs will survive,,,re: ernie.

 

[bruin70]

CNC cues and the cuemakers who make them have to be judged and evaluated differently than real cuemakers. If not - it means that the guy with the most money that can buy the biggest and baddest CNC machine is the best cuemaker ??? What's wrong with this picture! ?

both cues can be judged by the same criteria,,,,,playability and design.

cnc doesn't guarantee good design, THAT is within the creative mind of the cuemaker....and fancy does not necessarily equal good. cnc guarantees repetition and exactness. cnc allows for an easy entry level for cuemakers,, just as anyone can create web pages where once, long ago, websites were done in notepad. so cnc has created a very large contingent of mediocre cuemakers.

 

[twilight]

My thoughts....

 

[bruin70]

all this talk about process, but everyone is forgetting about design.

the basic design of a cue, "handmade" or cnc, is still the same,,,,points and windows. i see NOTHING new. flowery doilies,,,feathery hairs on the ends of points,,,all based around a basic point/window design.

if cnc is going to make good use of its technology, do something magnificent, don't bore us. at least we can be dazzled if not enamoured.

the scaling on these fancy cues suck. the designs are intricate, but clunky and thick. i'm sure there are machinists here who can attest, with what can be done with today's technology, cnc is merely dumbing down to create cue designs. yes,,,there's little difference between pantograph and cnc.....so what does that say about cnc imagination. sounds like cnc is offering a chance to take design to a different level and all that's being done is the same as pantograph,,,only more.

but imagination is bound by cnc. can i interpret this in cnc,,,will cnc let me do this or that. cnc is just embellishment, nothing more. the basic design of cues remains simple and cohesive. cnc hasn't changed this, and it's ironic, but cnc is shackled by the old ways. no one has really been able to break free. it's a mistake to think that cuemakers are artists, 3 to 4% are, the rest are machinists. most people who don't like cnc feels there was at least a sense of artistic merit to come out of the industry when things were done "by hand". cnc has industrialized all that.

if there is nothing extraordinary, if there is nothing magnificent, then what a waste of technology. it is technology used to create a commodity,,,not art.

 

[Purdman]

Based on your 20+ posts on this thread it's obvious you'll have the last word. I have no problem with your thinking that makes you right. Do you think it's good that a fancy BLUD cue is being offered at apprx 35% of retail? Your post # 70 indicated what a good buy it was. I think it's TRAGIC. It might be good for the current buyer but how about others who bought similiar cues which were cnc embellished from the makers closer to or at retail. I'll bet they think some sadist put sand in the vaseline. Based on these facts how hard is it to admit the cnc embellished Q's have not done well on the secondary market? Have any of the top 5 cues(secondary market value) been cnc? If the Asian market is so strong why have we seen many languish on ebay these last few years? I appreciate your energy and passion in touting/defending this manufacturing method based on the linkage to your earning capability, however, I don't think you can deny the FACTS.
I have NO agenda----NONE. As a long term cue pimp I try to never take advantage of a customer ( some people think to a fault) and share my opinions with them. I've talked to and known some of the makers that have gone cnc for apprx 40 yrs. By in large the majority are good, likable guys. I'm not putting anything in print that I haven't shared with them.
CNC has its niche......just not at the upper levels of the collectable cue market. As I said before only time will tell if I'm right.

I really wish you wouldn't bring the Blud up in your discussion. I am selling it because I don't use it. I am not trying to make a profit and letting it go at cost. Sorry if that bothers you. It is one hell of a cue. I am also shipping a $995 Espiritu to an AZ member who needs a cue. Pay when you can is that deal. Oh yeah, the price, $585. Why? I have had it since 1999 and never played it. It's not about the money to me guys. I also sent a $2,200 Phillippi to our dear departed friend Juston Coleman. So, please don't use my deals as any kind of measuring stick.
By the way, my playing cue is a Kikel. Rounded points and all.
Purdman

 

[alpine9430]

Would these type of points be acceptable or are they too round?
Just curious to what is acceptable and what may be highly sought after...

 

[daytonajoe]

Purd da Man

I will vouch for Purdman as being very generous and having helped many people on this board!!

I am just waiting for him to send me one of his spare Kikel's (LOL)

Joe

 

[cornerstone]

all this talk about process, but everyone is forgetting about design.

the basic design of a cue, "handmade" or cnc, is still the same,,,,points and windows. i see NOTHING new. flowery doilies,,,feathery hairs on the ends of points,,,all based around a basic point/window design.

if cnc is going to make good use of its technology, do something magnificent, don't bore us. at least we can be dazzled if not enamoured.

the scaling on these fancy cues suck. the designs are intricate, but clunky and thick. i'm sure there are machinists here who can attest, with what can be done with today's technology, cnc is merely dumbing down to create cue designs. yes,,,there's little difference between pantograph and cnc.....so what does that say about cnc imagination. sounds like cnc is offering a chance to take design to a different level and all that's being done is the same as pantograph,,,only more.

but imagination is bound by cnc. can i interpret this in cnc,,,will cnc let me do this or that. cnc is just embellishment, nothing more. the basic design of cues remains simple and cohesive. cnc hasn't changed this, and it's ironic, but cnc is shackled by the old ways. no one has really been able to break free. it's a mistake to think that cuemakers are artists, 3 to 4% are, the rest are machinists. most people who don't like cnc feels there was at least a sense of artistic merit to come out of the industry when things were done "by hand". cnc has industrialized all that.

if there is nothing extraordinary, if there is nothing magnificent, then what a waste of technology. it is technology used to create a commodity,,,not art.

Iam sorry bruin but i have to disagree with you on this one, have you seen any of the new mcworter or chudy designs? they are fresh and awesome.and leave people breathless! I think cnc is going to let some rise above the rest! and really test the others to step up or shut up! and as for resale just at the show dcc my best sellers were Black(5)-Ginacue(5)-and cantando (4)- MCWORTER (3)-mottey (3) MOST CUES WERE OVER $3500.00 and the rest were all 1s and 2s .the total sod was 31 high end cues and those are half of that. so I hope that gives you a idea of where things are moving from a front line stand point. I just hope that all the cuemakers take time and pride in the product they make and put quality 1st and if i like the cue ill buy it! thanks buddy hope this helps! Bill

 

[Purdman]

Would these type of points be acceptable or are they too round?
Just curious to what is acceptable and what may be highly sought after...

Dems is round.
Purdman

 

[alpine9430]

Dems is round.
Purdman

I agree they are round.
But they are on a cue from a cuemaker that is highly sought after.
I had to borrow the picture from Jeff's (hope he would not mind) site to see what people thought!

 

[cheese_ball]

ridiculous

To all of you CNC bashers:

Get an education! Do any of you realize how a pantograph works? You trace a design plate with a stylus to make your cutter mimick that design into your work piece. Now here's a question... Where do the design plates come from??? Did you know that ANY of these good design plates are being CNC'd? SO HAH! That wonderful cue you thought didn't have any CNC work in it anywhere is just as suspect as a Cog.

Well, if all cuemakers are using CNC design plates, and CNC'd parts, and assembling them, does this mean that there are no artists in cuemaking? Absolutely not! The art lies in the design concept. Picking out the best materials, hand selecting only the best, tightest grained woods, and putting together the masterpiece that feels alive in your hands. I'll only state this once:

Creating art means having, then realizing, and then producing a vision.

Just like an artist's palette or brushes, a CNC is just a tool set. It is up to the operator to make their results artistic. You can't tell someone that they are not an artist because you don't approve of their medium.

 

[bruin70]

Iam sorry bruin but i have to disagree with you on this one, have you seen any of the new mcworter or chudy designs? they are fresh and awesome.and leave people breathless! I think cnc is going to let some rise above the rest! and really test the others to step up or shut up! and as for resale just at the show dcc my best sellers were Black(5)-Ginacue(5)-and cantando (4)- MCWORTER (3)-mottey (3) MOST CUES WERE OVER $3500.00 and the rest were all 1s and 2s .the total sod was 31 high end cues and those are half of that. so I hope that gives you a idea of where things are moving from a front line stand point. I just hope that all the cuemakers take time and pride in the product they make and put quality 1st and if i like the cue ill buy it! thanks buddy hope this helps! Bill

mcworter i'm familiar with, chudy i'm not. i'll look. but sale/resale wasn't a part of my thoughts. people will buy or not, things that tickle their fancy, and money doesn't buy taste,,,but i won't argue what suits other people's sensibilities. they see enough value to put out their hard earned cash and that's good enough for me. i mean,,,,i reserve the right to laugh behind their back, though

mcworter is certainly unique, yet in many ways conservative. i don't feel he became so infatuated with cnc that he didn't leave some meat on the bone. i wouldn't collect him, though.

you become infatuated with the one thing cnc does best, and you forget everything else. it's like cgi movies with no plot.

what should i expect out of a cuemaker?........maybe i shouldn't expect anything. there are so many resources for the creatively diminished, that i'm surprised no one has taken a design and said "let me try something new". instead, it's more like "can i turn it in cnc". it's @ss backwards. the design should come first,,,,the means to execute comes later. you know, there are some magnificent designs that could be translated to cues that would interestingly work best if done "by hand", and the cue would be ameliorated by those hand made imperfections, where cnc would kill the concept.

i think i'm getting off topic.........let's just say people tend to be more creative with less than more.

 

[bruin70]

Would these type of points be acceptable or are they too round?
Just curious to what is acceptable and what may be highly sought after...

personally, i don't like the design to care if it is cnc or "hand cut"

 

[pathman]

Would these type of points be acceptable or are they too round?
Just curious to what is acceptable and what may be highly sought after...

These are from a Searing, and yes he uses cnc for his inlay work and feels bad about it I'm sure. When speaking to Dennis, he will tell you how quick and easy it is and that's why he does it. That also, I might add, is why Dennis' inlay work is very simplistic, he refuses to inlay curly q french fry patterns weaving through broken hour-glasses out of turquoise and malachite into a classic spliced cue.

 

[alpine9430]

These are from a Searing, and yes he uses cnc for his inlay work and feels bad about it I'm sure. When speaking to Dennis, he will tell you how quick and easy it is and that's why he does it. That also, I might add, is why Dennis' inlay work is very simplistic, he refuses to inlay curly q french fry patterns weaving through broken hour-glasses out of turquoise and malachite into a classic spliced cue.

The work of Dennis is awesome.
Love his work but and I was aware that he may use a CNC.
I am on his list and will have some inlays and it is up to Dennis to determine his method while I am only interested in the final end product.
The picture was to open minds.

 

[pharaoh68]

Funny, regardless of whether its easy or difficult to do the find of work Skins is talking about, the bottom line is this: A lot of those crazy CNC design are just plain ugly. They look like production cues. And if I wanted a production cue, I wouldn't buy one for $2,000!!!!