Cognoscenti Cues Now Available In The US

[zeeder]

I'll agree that CNC cut point pockets are round fresh off the machine (pantograph, or cnc) but like I said, WHEN DONE CORRECTLY, CNC cut inlays are not round. It takes a tremendous amount of hand fitting to make them sharp and right. Some folks do the extra work, some don't, and there is a price difference. And, I don't like the rounded inlays just like the rest of you. But CNC does not necessarily = round, and pantograph does not necessarily = sharp.

that's all I've got, to each their own.

Then why all the standing up for Cog? I can't say as I've ever seen a sharp cut inlay in a Cog.

 

[pathman]

I'll agree that CNC cut point pockets are round fresh off the machine (pantograph, or cnc) but like I said, WHEN DONE CORRECTLY, CNC cut inlays are not round. It takes a tremendous amount of hand fitting to make them sharp and right. Some folks do the extra work, some don't, and there is a price difference. And, I don't like the rounded inlays just like the rest of you. But CNC does not necessarily = round, and pantograph does not necessarily = sharp.

that's all I've got, to each their own.

Well said, I've seen it both ways, and I agree. I just kind of think of CNC as cheating.

 

[cgriffin5]

I know alot of people are going to disagree with me on this but IMO such artificial perfection diminishes the artistic side of cuemaking or anything for that matter. JMHO.

 

[pharaoh68]

There are very few people who don't use CNC or pantograph when making inlays. The issue here is points and inlays with rounded points. It's a point not a round...lol. Use CNC all you want, just make all the parts of the inlay/point, that should be sharp, sharp!

Zack-
That could be one of the greatest pearls of wisdom I have ever read in these forums! When will these people learn?

 

[SirBanksALot]

CNC Cues - "I Don't Think So!"

CNC cues and the cuemakers who make them have to be judged and evaluated differently than real cuemakers. If not - it means that the guy with the most money that can buy the biggest and baddest CNC machine is the best cuemaker ??? What's wrong with this picture! ?

I would rather spend my $$$ on a cue built buy a cuemaker that's a craftsman....and not a computer jockey.

 

[ribdoner]

Well said, I've seen it both ways, and I agree. I just kind of think of CNC as cheating.

Not sure if it's cheating but it does facilitate multi-tasking. U can read a book,wash dishes,get a low ob,etc. while robbie the robot is cutting all the little cavities and inlays. Good way to make big$

 

[SirBanksALot]

Right On !!

Wore the Japanese market out so its "ok" for us to buy them now? Anyone else see whats wrong with that picture? Same nice guy that hung up on me when I asked him to make the cue 1" longer? He makes a nice rod and I'm sure some people will jump at the chance but I'll pass...

To compare a CNC cue to an Omen is not apples to apples. Maybe its the way things are going in the cuemaking biz - but you just can't put CNC cues and the guys who make them in the same category as a Ohman or Searing or any cuemaker that cuts points, does inlays by hand and doesn't just flip a switch and watch the computer do the work.

*** If Cogs are now available in the U.S. it must mean that an additonal CNC was purchased...... that could well mean that Cogs cut on the orignal CNC are worth more than Cogs made on the new CNC machine...ouch!!!!!

 

[ShaneS]

Speaking of Cogs, does anybody have a plain jane they would be willing to sell?

-ShaneS

 

[ribdoner]

To compare a CNC cue to an Omen is not apples to apples. Maybe its the way things are going in the cuemaking biz - but you just can't put CNC cues and the guys who make them in the same category as a Ohman or Searing or any cuemaker that cuts points, does inlays by hand and doesn't just flip a switch and watch the computer do the work.

And, IMHO, you won't see the same ROI in the future

 

[merylane]

From this day forward, I will only buy cues made completely freehand, no pantograph, no CNC, just a block of wood and a pocket knife. Then I'll have a truly handmade cue, and that will make it the best cue ever.

Come on folks, I'd bet that Pantograph patterns are often made on a CNC, or standard patterns are just purchased. So its a hand guiding a stylus around a pattern instead of motors, its all the same folks. And neither, when done correctly is as simple as putting a puzzle together.

it takes alot more skill than you think to follow that pattern, and that adds up quick in the cost of cutters.

i dont believe there is anyone alive skilled enough to dull a cutter , cause the human error will break it first.

with a cnc you can cut til its (dulled) to a smaller size than you started.

 

[X Breaker]

In all fairness, Cognoscenti cues are balanced and constructed as well as any top notch cues on the market. His finish is also outstanding. It is not like he puts pieces of inlays together, flips a switch, goes have dinner, watches a movie and comes back to see a cue totally done.

With regard to the Japanese issue, similiar things happened a few times to different cue makers before with the same Japanese broker, none of these relationships ever lasted long. I would not put all the blames on Joe.

Richard

 

[TATE]

Not sure if it's cheating but it does facilitate multi-tasking. U can read a book,wash dishes,get a low ob,etc. while robbie the robot is cutting all the little cavities and inlays. Good way to make big$

I bet Bill Stroud and Bob Runde would like to take back those rounded point cues they made for awhile and burn them, then magically erase everyone's memory. Their collectible cue prices would shoot straight up!

Chris

 

[ribdoner]

I bet Bill Stroud and Bob Runde would like to take back those rounded point cues they made for awhile and burn them, then magically erase everyone's memory. Their collectible cue prices would shoot straight up!

Chris

And so would a lot of people who invested in them. Who knew????

 

[skins]

"to cnc or not to cnc" ah that is the ?. it's a shame that most in this thread don't have a clue. your opinions will only loose you the spoils. that's ok more for us who know better.

 

[X Breaker]

CNC can bring out some very creative work and style. e.g. Thomas Wayne, Jerry McWorter...

I like both sharp points and round edged points--I care about the unique personal style, creativity, execution, and playability more so then whether the points are sharp or not.

Just my personal opinion.

Richard

 

[classiccues]

"to cnc or not to cnc" ah that is the ?. it's a shame that most in this thread don't have a clue. your opinions will only loose you the spoils. that's ok more for us who know better.

Thats ok to.. You can have them all and I will take all the Motteys', Showmans, Bushkas, Botis', South Wests, Herceks, Searings, Westons (Skip), and Tascarellas.

Personally I think it just comes down to taste. There will be traditionalists and there will be people who like the new stuff. With McDermott, Joss, Schon, Pechauer using CNC to mass produce, maybe small CNC gets a bad rap. But I think the reality is that even your avatar, once given the program could be ran off on thousands of cues. That does lessen the appeal of cues made by automated machine. Its also hard to justify quantity for initial investment. When you see a series of 25 exact cues from a "custom" cuemaker, made in the same time period, what you are seeing is small production. Anyone who thinks differently needs to step out into manufacturing.

I think in terms of collecting (other factors being equal)... 1 of 1 beats 1 of 25 everyday, anytime, blindfolded, gives it the 7.. (fit any cliche)

Joe

 

[Quesports]

Then where does Dave Kikel's cues compare. His points and inlays are not razor sharp but they are not rounded and much cleaner than most cnc I have seen so are they cnc and then hand finished?
Just curious not knocking Dave at all I will not part with mine till I can't see the balls anymore!!
Dan

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Is it really so easy that just anybody could go out and drop $100,000 on some machinery and crap out fancy pool cues?

Do you really think that what Gus, Barry, Paul, Dennis, James, etc. did/do is all that difficult?

How many of you guys could program is AutoCAD?

How many of you guys could run a vertical mill?

How many of you guys could run a cordless drill?

Whoever said that designs come from the imagination said a mouthfull. Do you think that some designs call for rounded bits? 15 years ago you couldn't give away four point boti, bushka, spain, hoppe designed cues with piloted joints. Design is personal preference, and in cues is just as susceptible to fad as anything else.

Joe didn't always have CNC, and he made a slew of fancy cues without it that still look like the day they were made, because he knows what he's doing, he takes his time, and he doesn't accept any flaws.

I'm not taking anything away from other guys, as some of them are of similar mind, so why take away from what Joe does, or Ernie, Chuddy, or Wayne or a host of others, especially when it's apparent some of you have zero clue?

 

[Tommy-D]

> I'm going to say it again,I LIKE CNC inlays. To my eye,there are certain shapes that look better totally sharp,like notched diamonds,but other inlays shapes look better rounded. There are common designs we see here all the time that simply cannot be done with a manual panto,much less an Exacto knife. I am learning the basics of CNC programming and machine set-up,and can truly appreciate the skill it takes to create a design,tweak the dimensions,and unless a CAM program like Gibbs is used,write the correct code. Can you imagine how intense the concentration it takes for Joe,or Jerry McWhorter,or any of several other guys to completely deburr all those parts and pockets without ruining it before the inlays are even set in is? One slip with a deburr tool,file or sanding medium is all it takes to waste the part and the material,both of which are on YOU,the cuemaker. Getting the feed/speed right for those small end mills can be pretty tedious too from what I've heard too,the really small ones are about 20 bucks a pop,and are usually only sold in packages of 25 or so,once again this cost is on the cuemaker. If CNC makes better use of tooling and wastes less material,and frees you up to do other things around the shop,without compromising quality or appearance,that improved productivity can be passed on to customers in the form of putting more cues in peoples hands,and surely working fewer hours,while still producing more cues than manual methods. This extends to virtually any business that can use the technology,sign making,crafts,metalworking,etc. I have no beef at all with the guys that use the old world methods,but can't see CNC as anything less than a huge advantage. Tommy D.

 

[scottthesnot]

Its Simply A Matter Of Preference, But .......

CNC cues are cute, can hit just as well as any cue made and have their place in the market. But they just don't have the aesthetic (sp?) appeal of a hand crafted cue with hand cut inlays and points. Call it age or call it "snobbish" or whatever, but CNC is not for me. If I walked into the local pawn shop and bought a Cog for $100, I would hit it a few times for curiosities sake and then sell it to purchase a cue more to my liking. Different strokes for different folks.