Cognoscenti Cues Now Available In The US

[cuenut]

I like cues, period. If someone comes out with a design I like, it will not affect the fact that I like it, only what I might be willing to pay for it if interested in a purchase. I personally don't like Cogs because the designs don't thrill me, and I don't like the hit of the G-10 pin. It really isn't for me about CNC or not CNC. I love McWorter, Chudy, Manzino, and others who use CNC not because it is or isn't sharp or not, but because I like the design, and they can put a cue together that is structurally sound, whether it has inlays, points, or not. I do favor true points and sharp inlays overall. A good example of what I like/don't like are the avatar of skins and the pictured Searing in the post. Personally I like the Searing inlays because of the design no matter how simple, I think it goes with the cue. I think the cue in skin's avatar is too busy for my taste but that doesn't make it any better or worse a cue, only one that I would not shell out $$$ for. To each his own. Now lets get to the really important issues in cues like which joint plays the best???? or What's the best tip and ferrule combination?????? Get my point. This will go on forever as there are purists on either side. It's like trying to get a liberal Democrat to agree with a Conservative Republican. It just won't happen.

 

[zeeder]

Would these type of points be acceptable or are they too round?
Just curious to what is acceptable and what may be highly sought after...

I prefer sharper points, but that's juts me. If I want to buy a cue from a cuemaker that doesn't do razor sharp inlays then I won't get any inlays with points. Any inlays, if any, would be round by nature, i.e. ovals or dots or some other round design.

 

[Eyefull]

To all of you CNC bashers:

Get an education! Do any of you realize how a pantograph works? You trace a design plate with a stylus to make your cutter mimick that design into your work piece. Now here's a question... Where do the design plates come from??? Did you know that ANY of these good design plates are being CNC'd? SO HAH! That wonderful cue you thought didn't have any CNC work in it anywhere is just as suspect as a Cog.

Well, if all cuemakers are using CNC design plates, and CNC'd parts, and assembling them, does this mean that there are no artists in cuemaking? Absolutely not! The art lies in the design concept. Picking out the best materials, hand selecting only the best, tightest grained woods, and putting together the masterpiece that feels alive in your hands. I'll only state this once:

Creating art means having, then realizing, and then producing a vision.

Just like an artist's palette or brushes, a CNC is just a tool set. It is up to the operator to make their results artistic. You can't tell someone that they are not an artist because you don't approve of their medium.

Overall I agree with you, but with an exception: The medium is wood, CNC is the tool.
I don't much like radiused corners (except I do like ovals). So the issue for me is the builder's willingness to do a little handwork, and precise execution makes it work.
Mostly ignored here has been the issue of forearm wood stability. Pantographed or CNC'd, inlayed 'points' are equally useless in adding stability there. So for form and function, I choose spliced points.

 

[cueaddicts]

Would these type of points be acceptable or are they too round?
Just curious to what is acceptable and what may be highly sought after...

IMO, these inlays are way too round. I like my stuff sharp, sharp, sharp....it can't get too sharp. But that's my personal preference. But there are a lot of folks out there that must like it OK....since these inlays are sitting in a $3500+ Searing cue.

Sean

 

[skins]

all this talk about process, but everyone is forgetting about design. there's the ticket!

the basic design of a cue, "handmade" or cnc, is still the same,,,,points and windows. i see NOTHING new. flowery doilies,,,feathery hairs on the ends of points,,,all based around a basic point/window design. that''s just not true. tell jerry mcworter, thomas wayne, bob manzino, richard black, richard chudy, paul drexler, joe gold, bill stroud, bruce kuhn and of course keith josey as well as many others and that and they will say so also. the newer types of cues being made today colud have been made years ago but with time design is seen through different eyes. cue makers from the mid 80's back didn't think the way some cue makers think today. even if they did to try to execute this type of design work would have been a disaster. when joe gold made his first fancier floating point cues these were cues that almost nobody ever saw or thought of makeing before. these did not come from "traditional" thoughts. and i think i heard someone say his first fancy point was designed by mike benders wife. i don't know if he was the first but he definately won't be the last. the use of cnc has made it more possible to execute some of our new thought design work. have you ever heard the old addage: "it's not who makes it who but thought it". if we've learned anything from japan it's that anything can be copied. i always give props to the one who first has and executes the new idea. thats why your first comment was right on the money.

if cnc is going to make good use of its technology, do something magnificent, don't bore us. at least we can be dazzled if not enamoured. there are many examples out there but with the "dazzling" one's come the extreme prices.

the scaling on these fancy cues suck. the designs are intricate, but clunky and thick. i'm sure there are machinists here who can attest, with what can be done with today's technology, cnc is merely dumbing down to create cue designs. yes,,,there's little difference between pantograph and cnc.....so what does that say about cnc imagination. sounds like cnc is offering a chance to take design to a different level and all that's being done is the same as pantograph,,,only more. if you know something about milling you would know that just about the smallest mill cutter used in cue making today is .010 (10 thousanths end mill really used only for small parts that can't be inlayed much more than 50 thousanths deep). and in my designs i use .020 and .03125 which are awefuly small and can get about .56" wide on a part with out washing out unless you do "3d" inlays and pockets. as far as the difference between panto and cnc panto takes patterns which can cost allot of money for allot of cue designs. with the "hands on" time at the machine being so great, and it's result is close to the same as cnc, cnc has become a usefull tool to produce the constant new thoughts of cuemakers.

but imagination is bound by cnc. can i interpret this in cnc,,,will cnc let me do this or that. cnc is just embellishment, nothing more. the basic design of cues remains simple and cohesive. cnc hasn't changed this, and it's ironic, but cnc is shackled by the old ways. no one has really been able to break free. it's a mistake to think that cuemakers are artists, 3 to 4% are, the rest are machinists. most people who don't like cnc feels there was at least a sense of artistic merit to come out of the industry when things were done "by hand". cnc has industrialized all that. what's wrong with using a tool to do the things that would be just about imposible to do otherwise?

if there is nothing extraordinary, if there is nothing magnificent, then what a waste of technology. it is technology used to create a commodity,,,not art.

like i said tell this to the list of cue makers above.

 

[skins]

Funny, regardless of whether its easy or difficult to do the find of work Skins is talking about, the bottom line is this: A lot of those crazy CNC design are just plain ugly. They look like production cues. And if I wanted a production cue, I wouldn't buy one for $2,000!!!!

show me examples of the "production" cues that are like my design work.

 

[pharaoh68]

show me examples of the "production" cues that are like my design work.

Try looking at the Players catalog.

 

[skins]

Try looking at the Players catalog.

those cues are done with roll printing and or decals then finnished over. they're not inlayed. give me a break.
something to add is these cues were patterned off what Cogniscenti, Wayne, Mcworter, Josey ect..... did and still do. not visa-versa

 

[pharaoh68]

those cues are done with roll printing and or decals then finnished over. they're not inlayed. give me a break.

Maybe. But they cost a fraction of what you/Keith or even Joe Gold charge. And if I'm going to spend that kind of Money, I'd rather it be a cue that doesn't look like I picked it out of a catalog!

 

[ribdoner]

I really wish you wouldn't bring the Blud up in your discussion. I am selling it because I don't use it. I am not trying to make a profit and letting it go at cost. Sorry if that bothers you. It is one hell of a cue. I am also shipping a $995 Espiritu to an AZ member who needs a cue. Pay when you can is that deal. Oh yeah, the price, $585. Why? I have had it since 1999 and never played it. It's not about the money to me guys. I also sent a $2,200 Phillippi to our dear departed friend Juston Coleman. So, please don't use my deals as any kind of measuring stick.
By the way, my playing cue is a Kikel. Rounded points and all.
Purdman

I apologize if my referance to "the fancy BLUD" is an issue.....of any kind. It is only an example of value of cnc embellished cues on the secondary market.

 

[buddha162]

those cues are done with roll printing and or decals then finnished over. they're not inlayed. give me a break.

what about this one?

 

[skins]

Maybe. But they cost a fraction of what you/Keith or even Joe Gold charge. And if I'm going to spend that kind of Money, I'd rather it be a cue that doesn't look like I picked it out of a catalog!

you can't be serious? that doesn't make any sense. your comparing apples to rotten oranges. those are pieces of junk not custom cues. maybe that's all you can afford and that's ok. come on get real.

 

[Hidy Ho]

Maybe. But they cost a fraction of what you/Keith or even Joe Gold charge. And if I'm going to spend that kind of Money, I'd rather it be a cue that doesn't look like I picked it out of a catalog!

But similar things can be said for many non-CNC cues as well. For instance, Competition Sports makes exact reproduction Balabushkas.

 

[skins]

what about this one?

ok now your comparing apples to apple seeds. the difference is these cues though inlayed are not produced with the same quality workmanship period. i've examined some of these cues and they are sub par to cues we make in every aspect. not to mention most of the design work is ugly and gaudy. IMHO also ask the company how many of those cues they make a year and how long it takes per cue and you probably find out they're not as "production" as you think

 

[buddha162]

ok now your comparing apples to apple seeds. the difference is these cues though inlayed are not produced with the same quality workmanship period. i've examined some of these cues and they are sub par to cues we make in every aspect. not to mention most of the design work is ugly and gaudy. IMHO

That's fine but the point is, when I see "your" cues compared to the Mezz i posted, I see no difference. They are both ugly to me, both gaudy, and both look like templated cues. There's no character at all.

And are you saying that Mezz cues have sloppy inlays?

-Roger

 

[skins]

That's fine but the point is, when I see "your" cues compared to the Mezz i posted, I see no difference. They are both ugly to me, both gaudy, and both look like templated cues. There's no character at all.

And are you saying that Mezz cues have sloppy inlays?

-Roger

if you see no difference your blind. if you had both cues in your hand and could'nt tell the difference you just don't know better. but think what you want and re-read the bottom of my edited post. your entitled to an opnion but some poeple wait till they have all the fact's before sticking their foot in their mouth. i know that sounded harsh but really no offence personally.

 

[pharaoh68]

you can't be serious? that doesn't make any sense. your comparing apples to rotten oranges. those are pieces of junk not custom cues. maybe that's all you can afford and that's ok. come on get real.

Skins-
I'm not saying that a PLayers cue or even a Mezz as Buddha pointed out are top notch, high-end customs. I'm saying that they are both equally unattractive in my eye. They both look like production cues. And rather than spend $2500 on something I find unattractive, I'd rather spend $500 of the Mezz or even less on the Players. If I'm going to spend $3000 on a cue, as a did on my last one, it would be a true thing of beauty. Not some gaudy, garish design. Like you said. Its a matter of taste. Thats all. Besides. This whole thing is supposed to be about round points/inlays versus sharp points/inlays.
There's no debate: Sharp.

 

[skins]

for all listening in:
custom cue makers are really not in a competition with each other so why should the buyers be. you like what you like. you buy what you like. thats all. i took a vallium and i feel better now.

 

[cheese_ball]

You guys need to quit the flame wars... how old are you anyway? I can't stress it enough, you simply can't argue taste! You may like a certain style that someone else thinks is "ugly and gaudy." Great, you're entitled to your opinion. The fact of the matter is, no matter how much you may dislike the aesthetics of a cue, someone's time, money, time, time, and more time went into making it. It doesn't matter if they bill themselves out at $3.00/hr. or $55.00; you either like it or you don't. Your approval of another cues' aesthetics are NOT what make that cue have any value; regardless of what you may think. You MAY decide not to buy one, but you should watch what you say about another man's (or woman's, sorry Annie-O) artistic passions.

FURTHERMORE, CNC haters, please realize that a custom cue maker does not build 100s of the same cue. That means that EACH cue must be programmed in CAD before it hits the first test blank. Then, when the test blank works they'll cut a cue into some good wood. All of this takes time. It is the TIME that costs MONEY. Welcome to the real world.

BTW> Thanks for the correction... I didn't mean medium in my last post, I meant tools.

 

[skins]

Skins-
I'm not saying that a PLayers cue or even a Mezz as Buddha pointed out are top notch, high-end customs. I'm saying that they are both equally unattractive in my eye. They both look like production cues. And rather than spend $2500 on something I find unattractive, I'd rather spend $500 of the Mezz or even less on the Players. If I'm going to spend $3000 on a cue, as a did on my last one, it would be a true thing of beauty. Not some gaudy, garish design. Like you said. Its a matter of taste. Thats all. Besides. This whole thing is supposed to be about round points/inlays versus sharp points/inlays.
There's no debate: Sharp.

haven't you ever seen cheap "production" pronged cues? my point is the "production" cues are copied off us custom makers to make a quick buck. the money you would spend and the cue you would want is up to each individual buyer period. there are cheap copys of all cues why single out the "floating" point designs as the ones that "look like production cues" why not single out all of the crapy pronged cues also and keep "all" real custom cue makers who do their own design work above these scavengers. one more thing to think about if you see more production cues going the way of "my type" design work don't you think i and those like me should be flatterd that of all the looks they can go for to make big bank they choose allot of ours. many out there must like these type designs in their cues for these companys to stake their production line on them. anyway i like sharp points too but as i stated doing that with my design work would be a mess of problems.