Concept For Nineball

Big Bad Bern

Big Bad Bern

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With Freddy talking about a proper concept for one pocket it got me to wondering if there was a proper concept for nineball. I mean Buddy Hall was said to play nine ball at a level nobody else has ever seen, when he was at his best, and Luther Lassiter was untouchable for a couple of decades and now Dennis Orullco(sp) is supposed to be this unbeatable titan for money.

Do they just execute at a much higher level than everyone else, or do they know something about the game that nobody else does.

Bern
 
I know that I employ a concept for nineball. It consists of several rules that I have picked up over the years from watching and talking to great players. This concept simplifies and standardizes the game for me, allowing me to stay more in stroke by not having to stop and decide what to do with routine shots and positions.

I mean 8ball and straightpool have concepts applied to them, like labeling balls A,B,C,D,E,F,G etc. in order of importance or difficulty, clearing balls off rails, finding key balls for the break shot/8ball.

One pocket has concepts like moving balls down table, leaving long shots, moving balls from an opponents pocket and many more.

So you mean to tell me that no one has taken the time to apply any of their vast resource of brain power, skills and knowledge to the game of nineball.

I guess this game is just for "BANGERS", just go back to reading your straight pool, cuetip and custom cue threads.:p

Bern

P.S. my personal concept for nineball involves the following rules:

1. Use angles and speed to move the cueball for position(use spin only when necessary)

2. Minimize cueball movement( stop shots, short draws and follows)

3. Play every ball into the pocket it is closest to, unless the pattern dictates other wise.

4. Get as close as possible on every shot (2-3ft with the proper angle).

5. Use the fewest rails possible to acheive the desired position

6. Link balls together in the best pattern you can using the above rules.

7. Find the best way to exert control over the table( sometimes playing a safety is the bes option, YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO RUN OUT).

8. When a safety is the best option, play aggressive safeties by opening up problem balls or increasing your advantage on the next shot to either runout or play another safety.

9. Never ever miss the nine.

once again

Bern
 
Good list, a few other thoughts:
1) When playing safe strive to make your opponent shoot "away" from the OB
2) Stay "in-line" on position patterns--avoid crossing position lines
3)Plan at least 3 balls ahead
4) Don't miss:)
 
9 ball concept

I certainly dont profess to know it, even though I have ran an 8 pack and a 9 pack (once each) on a 4 1/2 by 9. But there were players I observed that I thought that they knew it, players like Portland Don Watson, Port Chester Mickey Carpinello, Buddy Hall, Irving Crane and Bill Lawson to name a few. The game just looked different when they played it.

the Beard
 
They've got a better smell for the money and they usually have their noses
ahead of everybody else when it comes to the finish line...
 
freddy the beard said:
I certainly dont profess to know it, even though I have ran an 8 pack and a 9 pack (once each) on a 4 1/2 by 9. But there were players I observed that I thought that they knew it, players like Portland Don Watson, Port Chester Mickey Carpinello, Buddy Hall, Irving Crane and Bill Lawson to name a few. The game just looked different when they played it.

the Beard
Click to expand...

The game just looked different when they played it. I agree with that whole heartedly. I feel you could even add a few to it.

I got to witness Buddy play some incredible 9-ball back in his day and always felt he understood some things that few others did. He never seemed afraid to shoot the right shot and could be so creative.

Buddy at times would have a very predictable routine out and all of a sudden send the cue ball to opposite side of the ball from what seemed simple and so obvious. For him it worked and would look so natural and logical.

In his prime is still the most impressive thing I've ever seen in the pool room.
 
I think 9 ball is like connect-the-dots. IMO the concept is stay on the right side of the ball. If you can play the correct position, you dont have to be a great shotmaker.

Southpaw
 
Really, the problem with discussing 9-ball concept is that GREAT 9-ball rests in the break and great shot-making. The "conceptual" part of it, staying on the correct side, going to convenient pockets, etc. is pretty fundamental for general pool. Kicking can be a wonderful asset that's rarely seen in other games but even then, you can be a great player while possessing mediocre kicking skills.


Now, I think lots more can be said about 8-ball concept.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Really, the problem with discussing 9-ball concept is that GREAT 9-ball rests in the break and great shot-making. The "conceptual" part of it, staying on the correct side, going to convenient pockets, etc. is pretty fundamental for general pool. Kicking can be a wonderful asset that's rarely seen in other games but even then, you can be a great player while possessing mediocre kicking skills.


Now, I think lots more can be said about 8-ball concept.
Click to expand...


Trying to start a nine ball vs 8 ball argument?
 
erikido said:
Trying to start a nine ball vs 8 ball argument?
Click to expand...


lol, on the contrary. I just think great 9-ball isn't necessarily great pool. A perfect example, I was playing Ginky the other night and opened my set with him by making 3 balls on the break and running out. It was tic-tac-toe and I got a few comments from people watching about how I ran the rack beautifully. I was thinking, "I only had to make 6 balls that were all sitting near pockets. Did they totally miss that?" No more than a few racks later, we got into a safety battle on the 1-ball that lasted a few innings and nobody said a thing.

In 8-ball, straight pool or 1-pocket, you have to do more than just pocket what's infront of you. You're leaping over one trap and side-stepping another. In 9-ball, you always play into the angles and staying on the right side of the ball where as in the other games, you're often forced to really test your sense of speed and cut across angles with margins of error no greater than a few inches.

I'm just saying, at least 90% of 9-ball is obvious. You can't say that about any other pool game.


I say all this and mind you, I LOVE to play 9-ball. I love the multi-rail shots, banks and power-draws. However, much of it is less about concept and more about execution.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
lol, on the contrary. I just think great 9-ball isn't necessarily great pool. A perfect example, I was playing Ginky the other night and opened my set with him by making 3 balls on the break and running out. It was tic-tac-toe and I got a few comments from people watching about how I ran the rack beautifully. I was thinking, "I only had to make 6 balls that were all sitting near pockets. Did they totally miss that?" No more than a few racks later, we got into a safety battle on the 1-ball that lasted a few innings and nobody said a thing.

In 8-ball, straight pool or 1-pocket, you have to do more than just pocket what's infront of you. You're leaping over one trap and side-stepping another. In 9-ball, you always play into the angles and staying on the right side of the ball where as in the other games, you're often forced to really test your sense of speed and cut across angles with margins of error no greater than a few inches.

I'm just saying, at least 90% of 9-ball is obvious. You can't say that about any other pool game.


I say all this and mind you, I LOVE to play 9-ball. I love the multi-rail shots, banks and power-draws. However, much of it is less about concept and more about execution.
Click to expand...


Ah Okay, I do understand that. The break is a huge part of that game.
I just got a lot more proficient at kicking so those kick safety battles can be great fun.

But, remember 9 ball isn't obvious to someone who isn't at least a B player. So there is strategy that has to be built in. Pattern play is something that I have actually just barely REALLY started to understand. I could run out before if it was open. But, mostly because I was a good shot maker. Now that my patterns are better I can run out cause every shot is a duck with natural shape.
 
Big Bad Bern said:
I know that I employ a concept for nineball. It consists of several rules that I have picked up over the years from watching and talking to great players. This concept simplifies and standardizes the game for me, allowing me to stay more in stroke by not having to stop and decide what to do with routine shots and positions.

I mean 8ball and straightpool have concepts applied to them, like labeling balls A,B,C,D,E,F,G etc. in order of importance or difficulty, clearing balls off rails, finding key balls for the break shot/8ball.

One pocket has concepts like moving balls down table, leaving long shots, moving balls from an opponents pocket and many more.

So you mean to tell me that no one has taken the time to apply any of their vast resource of brain power, skills and knowledge to the game of nineball.

I guess this game is just for "BANGERS", just go back to reading your straight pool, cuetip and custom cue threads.:p

Bern

P.S. my personal concept for nineball involves the following rules:

1. Use angles and speed to move the cueball for position(use spin only when necessary)

2. Minimize cueball movement( stop shots, short draws and follows)

3. Play every ball into the pocket it is closest to, unless the pattern dictates other wise.

4. Get as close as possible on every shot (2-3ft with the proper angle).

5. Use the fewest rails possible to acheive the desired position

6. Link balls together in the best pattern you can using the above rules.

7. Find the best way to exert control over the table( sometimes playing a safety is the bes option, YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO RUN OUT).

8. When a safety is the best option, play aggressive safeties by opening up problem balls or increasing your advantage on the next shot to either runout or play another safety.

9. Never ever miss the nine.

once again

Bern
Click to expand...

First of all... A concept is one idea or guiding principal about something. You are using the word "concept" in place of a word such as "approach".

Second.. Every single one of the above rules apply to all games, not just 9 ball.

Russ
 
Thanks for all the thoughful replies. Russ I do realize that my rules that make up my concept of nineball do also apply to most other billiard games. What i was attempting to do with my question was tap into the resources of other people who have seen and talked to these great players in their prime and might have been privy to inside information that might change my concept or expand upon it.

Freddy as I have read your book (Banking with the Beard) I feel and apology is nessecary for leaving Port Chester Mickey off my impromptue list. I would be greatly appriciative if you would expand upon his concept of nineball and how it should be played, as the level he acheived is what I am striving for.

Bern
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
lol, on the contrary. I just think great 9-ball isn't necessarily great pool. A perfect example, I was playing Ginky the other night and opened my set with him by making 3 balls on the break and running out. It was tic-tac-toe and I got a few comments from people watching about how I ran the rack beautifully. I was thinking, "I only had to make 6 balls that were all sitting near pockets. Did they totally miss that?" No more than a few racks later, we got into a safety battle on the 1-ball that lasted a few innings and nobody said a thing.

In 8-ball, straight pool or 1-pocket, you have to do more than just pocket what's infront of you. You're leaping over one trap and side-stepping another. In 9-ball, you always play into the angles and staying on the right side of the ball where as in the other games, you're often forced to really test your sense of speed and cut across angles with margins of error no greater than a few inches.

I'm just saying, at least 90% of 9-ball is obvious. You can't say that about any other pool game.


I say all this and mind you, I LOVE to play 9-ball. I love the multi-rail shots, banks and power-draws. However, much of it is less about concept and more about execution.
Click to expand...

Great post
 
All out on 1 shot

Big Bad Bern said:
Thanks for all the thoughful replies. Russ I do realize that my rules that make up my concept of nineball do also apply to most other billiard games. What i was attempting to do with my question was tap into the resources of other people who have seen and talked to these great players in their prime and might have been privy to inside information that might change my concept or expand upon it.

Freddy as I have read your book (Banking with the Beard) I feel and apology is nessecary for leaving Port Chester Mickey off my impromptue list. I would be greatly appriciative if you would expand upon his concept of nineball and how it should be played, as the level he acheived is what I am striving for.

Bern
Click to expand...

The thing I noticed about Mickey, Don Watson, Buddy, etc., was that they usually only made 1 hard shot a game. They would go all-out to make that shot and get perfect position, even though making the shot itself was hard enough. They never settled for just making the shot. Once perfect, they stayed perfect, playing close position, and wound up shooting at hanger 9 balls. The mistake I see many 9 ball players make is when they have an easy shot to start with, they settle for Ok position rather than concentrating and getting perfect (and close!) because they know they are probably still going to pocket the next ball anyway. I'll repeat what I said earlier, the great players, once perfect, they stayed perfect, their concentration at an absolute level until the game was won. It aint easy, and the mental discipline required is awesome, but who said it was supposed to be easy?

the Beard
 
That is great info Freddy, it is incite into the mind of great players. I will takethat info and strive to acheive it as I beleive that it will take me to the level I want to attain.

Thanks Freddy

Bern
 
Big Bad Bern said:
With ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Do they just execute at a much higher level than everyone else, or do they know something about the game that nobody else does.

Bern
Click to expand...


first thing i always notice about great players is "man,,,they SURE can shoot".
 
like stated before its connect the dots,

Buddy awalys was on the right side of the object ball, thus "inline" for the next shot, thats why it looks so simple when he plays. Efren gets out of line but since he dosent miss he makes it look a bit more complex when he is out of line the whole rack but puts a 6 pack on you out of nowhere.

the break is huge, my break is about as bad as it gets and wow, I know first hand how many games,sets that has cost me ofer the years. If i give up the breaks that puts me in a bad spot If I get the breaks I'm in a worse spot.
 
Fatboy said:
like stated before its connect the dots,

Buddy awalys was on the right side of the object ball, thus "inline" for the next shot, thats why it looks so simple when he plays. Efren gets out of line but since he dosent miss he makes it look a bit more complex when he is out of line the whole rack but puts a 6 pack on you out of nowhere.

the break is huge, my break is about as bad as it gets and wow, I know first hand how many games,sets that has cost me ofer the years. If i give up the breaks that puts me in a bad spot If I get the breaks I'm in a worse spot.[/QUOTE]

CONCEPT FOR Fatboy: play one pocket:D
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top