Confusion!.......Spin the Cue ball or Center Cue ball MOSTLY?

jgroom972

jgroom972

"shootin' from the hip"
Good day everyone, i have been taking lessons from (2) high profile professionals, and the inconsistent part is that one will say "Always stay towards the center of the cue ball". The other one will say unless straight in, then you should "spin" the cue ball. Both players are at the top of the food chain when it comes to pool. I have to admit, when using spin, I seem to be more consistent. I seem to pocket balls better and get and maintain shape better. What opinions do you (y'all) on this subject?
 
Both is better. I think the spin just gets developed over time and sometimes you have to practice deadball center to keep yourself in the game. Seems the opposite for me at least what would be deadball center then practice your spin. Whatever works for you but you need both however you acquire it.

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jgroom972 said:
Good day everyone, i have been taking lessons from (2) high profile professionals, and the inconsistent part is that one will say "Always stay towards the center of the cue ball". The other one will say unless straight in, then you should "spin" the cue ball. Both players are at the top of the food chain when it comes to pool. I have to admit, when using spin, I seem to be more consistent. I seem to pocket balls better and get and maintain shape better. What opinions do you (y'all) on this subject?
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Have to be able to do both. Whatever the shot calls for. If you don't play/practice a lot i'd try to stay closer to center cb. Spinnin' your rock takes regular practice/play.
 
You have to learn to spin the ball if you want to be good. Its great to be able to TRY and play to be able to play on the center of the cue ball for every shot, but that is unrealistic in the real world. But you need to learn the basics of shotmaking before you start spinning, so instructors might tell you to focus on that.
 
jgroom972 said:
Good day everyone, i have been taking lessons from (2) high profile professionals, and the inconsistent part is that one will say "Always stay towards the center of the cue ball". The other one will say unless straight in, then you should "spin" the cue ball. Both players are at the top of the food chain when it comes to pool. I have to admit, when using spin, I seem to be more consistent. I seem to pocket balls better and get and maintain shape better. What opinions do you (y'all) on this subject?
Click to expand...
This is a question you should not have to ask here. Regardless which teacher you are talking to they should be explaining the reasoning for what they are telling you.
A teacher needs to be able to tell you the "WHY" of the lesson. If they don't then ask. It is how you develope understanding.
 
I took a lesson from Dennis Orcullo and asked him what percentage of his shots he shoots with spin. With a bewildered look on his face he said, "Every shot." I was curious because I use spin on 98% of my shots; it's the way I learned to play. IMO, there's no "right" way. I think whatever works for you and you are more comfortable with. Like others have said, if you take long breaks and use spin, it will take a little more time to get dialed in and find your touch.
 
The idea of staying on the vertical axis is fine for beginners and recreational players. I know of no accomplished player that tries to stay on the vertical axis. I know of several who say they stay on the vertical axis, but watching their game it's obvious they're not. I have done hundreds of hours of commentary for professional events. There isn't a professional player that doesn't hit most shots with some kind of left/right spin, and the players who people on these board say stay "closer to center" are the ones that really go to extremes like Buddy Hall and Chang Jung-Lin.

I was sitting next to an internet poster who had never seen the elite professionals live, and he literally gasped when Chang stroked a shot with extreme miscue-approach English. And the cueball wasn't even going anywhere special. . And we had this discussion. He always thought Chang stayed close vertical center, but watching up and close and personal, observation trumped all. I also mention Buddy Hall because it amazes me how many people say he stayed closer to center, yet Buddy not only taught the Clock System, but he discusses the importance of being able to use all of the ball in one of his post match interviews after maybe a US Open event on YouTube.

Freddie <~~~ a little off center
 
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You can make most shots and run most patterns by hitting center ball. Spin can make the patterns easier but can make the shots more difficult. That said, I think that anyone who executes every shot perfectly and never ever misses, while playing center ball, is a favourite against anyone who spins the ball a lot (but in reality this is different because nobody never misses).

If I were a super-guru-pool-coach I'd probably be coaching some players to hit center ball and others to use more spin. I'd also know why I was saying that. The reality though is that while a coach can make your game better, they don't know everything. I'd also hazard a guess that many a good player doesn't know exactly why they are good, and that when they are paid to coach they have to adopt a line that sounds authentic.
 
Cornerman said:
The idea of staying on the vertical axis is fine for beginners and recreational players. I know of no accomplished player that tries to stay on the vertical axis. I know of several who say they stay on the vertical axis, but watching their game it's obvious they're not. I have done hundreds of hours of commentary for professional events. There isn't a professional player that doesn't hit most shots with some kind of left/right spin, and the players that people on these board will stay "closer to center" are the ones that really go to extremes like Buddy Hall and Chang Jung-Lin.

I was sitting next to an internet poster who had never seen the elite professionals live, and he literally gasped when Chang stroked a shot with extreme miscue-approach English. And the cueball wasn't even going anywhere special. . And we had this discussion. He always thought Chang stayed close vertical center, but watching up and close and personal, observation trumped all. I also mention Buddy Hall because it amazes me how many people say he stayed closer to center, yet Buddy not only taught the Clock System, but he discusses the importance of being able to use all of the ball in one of his post match interviews after maybe a US Open event on YouTube.

Freddie <~~~ a little off center
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I think some of these players that are using a "surprising" amount of spin are playing a shot that is all cued up to resemble a dead center shot in terms of how the object ball will move after contact. They have re-aligned their alignment if you like.

Oh, I hope I haven't woken CJ and his "system" up.
 
If you can get the cue ball to the next destination with a vertical axis hit, I see no reason to spin it. However, many shots require spin to get to the next destination, so, as BB said, you need to be able to do both-

-dj
 
jgroom972 said:
Good day everyone, i have been taking lessons from (2) high profile professionals, and the inconsistent part is that one will say "Always stay towards the center of the cue ball". The other one will say unless straight in, then you should "spin" the cue ball. Both players are at the top of the food chain when it comes to pool. I have to admit, when using spin, I seem to be more consistent. I seem to pocket balls better and get and maintain shape better. What opinions do you (y'all) on this subject?
Click to expand...

Center ball (or at least vertical axis) is good for learning without getting lost in the realm of deflection and how to adjust for it. Top/bottm/center you don't need to adjust your aim for, soon as you move left/right you add in the deflection issue, and for some players also keeping the cue moving straight without pushing to one side or the other, a bit like some people scoop the cueball on a draw shot due to pool mechanics. Same thing happens often on side spin. Keeping at the center of the cueball keeps all that out of the equation.

However, at a higher level of play, you just can't get there without spin on many of the shots, once a player is past a low C level they need to develop the ability to play and aim with spin. In fact many pros use what they call "helping english" to pocket balls, even Buddy Hall who talks about it a lot in his commentary. So not just to play shape, but to help them aim towards the pocket using spin.
 
I think some of the ideas of cueball come from old books and teachings that were geared toward straight pool. I remember it often being said you use no more then a tip of english from some very good players. That may be true just bumping balls around close up, but you will be in trouble trying to adhere to this playing 9 ball.
 
When I think about spin on the cue ball it is similar to what pro golfers try to do. It is actually hard to hit the cue ball dead center every single time.
When standing over the shot, a pro golfer decides if he will draw or fade the ball. This is not because he cannot hit it straight but because he cannot hit it straight every time. He MUST know which way his ball is going to move.
Same in pool. If you are trying to hit dead center it is easy to accidentally apply a little reverse or running english which might cause problems. I pretty much use spin on every shot although I have no idea if that is the right approach, i have always thought it works best for me. Although I am a decent player, have won a couple of tournaments, I never got to be really good. So maybe I am doing it all wrong! I am old enough to realize there there is never only one way to play.
 
Learning to locate and accurately strike the center of the CB is important because that helps you establish your foundation of accurately identifying the vertical axis of the CB. From there, you can start working on stun, follow, and draw. By focusing on center ball and later vertical axis, this allows for newer players to not have to worry about deflection from side spin before their accuracy and stroke control is established. That said, beyond a certain point of proficiency, spin becomes super critical as you become better and better at positioning. Personally, it really depends on what the situation calls for but I try to stay as close to center as possible.

I have observed quite a few players that cross over to the other extreme however, becoming enamored by spin and using it excessively. Every single one of their shots seem to be a 2 rail follow or draw simply because they like watching the rock move around.
 
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jgroom972 said:
Good day everyone, i have been taking lessons from (2) high profile professionals, and the inconsistent part is that one will say "Always stay towards the center of the cue ball". The other one will say unless straight in, then you should "spin" the cue ball. Both players are at the top of the food chain when it comes to pool. I have to admit, when using spin, I seem to be more consistent. I seem to pocket balls better and get and maintain shape better. What opinions do you (y'all) on this subject?
Click to expand...
Feels like Johnny Archer ( center ball ) and Earl ( spinning every shot )
Heres my 2 cents.
If center axis ball hit is good enuff for position, then im staying center
If not add just half or a tip.
In my observation over the years, pros that stick with center hit gives me the impression of a very solid game as compared to pros who play w excessive spins
 
Cornerman said:
The idea of staying on the vertical axis is fine for beginners and recreational players. I know of no accomplished player that tries to stay on the vertical axis. I know of several who say they stay on the vertical axis, but watching their game it's obvious they're not. I have done hundreds of hours of commentary for professional events. There isn't a professional player that doesn't hit most shots with some kind of left/right spin, and the players that people on these board will stay "closer to center" are the ones that really go to extremes like Buddy Hall and Chang Jung-Lin.

I was sitting next to an internet poster who had never seen the elite professionals live, and he literally gasped when Chang stroked a shot with extreme miscue-approach English. And the cueball wasn't even going anywhere special. . And we had this discussion. He always thought Chang stayed close vertical center, but watching up and close and personal, observation trumped all. I also mention Buddy Hall because it amazes me how many people say he stayed closer to center, yet Buddy not only taught the Clock System, but he discusses the importance of being able to use all of the ball in one of his post match interviews after maybe a US Open event on YouTube.

Freddie <~~~ a little off center
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Yes, yes, yes! In so many cases “You can’t get there from here” without spin. Sounds like one instructor is just starting with the basics, while the other is just throwing the OP in the deep end. I think I would prefer just being thrown in the deep end right off the bat. LOL give me spin and let me miss those balls while my brain starts to process those misses.
 
jgroom972 said:
Good day everyone, i have been taking lessons from (2) high profile professionals, and the inconsistent part is that one will say "Always stay towards the center of the cue ball". The other one will say unless straight in, then you should "spin" the cue ball. Both players are at the top of the food chain when it comes to pool. I have to admit, when using spin, I seem to be more consistent. I seem to pocket balls better and get and maintain shape better. What opinions do you (y'all) on this subject?
Click to expand...

Cornerman said:
The idea of staying on the vertical axis is fine for beginners and recreational players. I know of no accomplished player that tries to stay on the vertical axis. I know of several who say they stay on the vertical axis, but watching their game it's obvious they're not. I have done hundreds of hours of commentary for professional events. There isn't a professional player that doesn't hit most shots with some kind of left/right spin, and the players that people on these board will stay "closer to center" are the ones that really go to extremes like Buddy Hall and Chang Jung-Lin.

I was sitting next to an internet poster who had never seen the elite professionals live, and he literally gasped when Chang stroked a shot with extreme miscue-approach English. And the cueball wasn't even going anywhere special. . And we had this discussion. He always thought Chang stayed close vertical center, but watching up and close and personal, observation trumped all. I also mention Buddy Hall because it amazes me how many people say he stayed closer to center, yet Buddy not only taught the Clock System, but he discusses the importance of being able to use all of the ball in one of his post match interviews after maybe a US Open event on YouTube.

Freddie <~~~ a little off center
Click to expand...
This!
 
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