Confusion!.......Spin the Cue ball or Center Cue ball MOSTLY?

It’s hard for me to disagree with Bob, because he’s a better player/teacher than I am. However we might have a difference of opinion. Or possibly I’m flat wrong.

As Jay noted this is interesting. I’m going to wait and read more posts before I say anything else.

I think we can all agree there’s more than one way to skin a cat. I really don’t want to skin a cat, but isn’t that the old saying?😂

Best
Fatboy
 
Fatboy said:
It’s hard for me to disagree with Bob, because he’s a better player/teacher than I am. However we might have a difference of opinion. Or possibly I’m flat wrong.

As Jay noted this is interesting. I’m going to wait and read more posts before I say anything else.

I think we can all agree there’s more than one way to skin a cat. I really don’t want to skin a cat, but isn’t that the old saying?😂

Best
Fatboy
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I like ' more than one way to butter your biscuit' 'cause i really dig biscuits. ;)
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think very, very few pool players start that way.
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Agreed. I learned from a buddy who was an advanced player and he taught me about spin and the effects very early on. I'd much prefer it that way because it omits an additional learning curve.
 
Sort of on topic…

In the late 80s early 90s, I played with some very good players on a team in a BCA league. Robert was an interesting guy, being a Ferrari mechanic on the racing circuit in Europe for a while. He’s gone now, early, due to cancer, God rest his soul.

Robert had an off night in a league match one night. We were in a traveling league, so we all headed back to Cue & Cushion, our home room. Robert wanted a game. He matched up at $50 a game (1990,I think?). The other guy was racking, and Robert said to me, “The only way to fix this is center ball. Watch me.” So I did.

He literally hit every ball on the vertical axis, as best as I could tell, from watching the hit to watching the cue ball react. (Nine foot Gold Crown 3s.) He smoked the guy.

After, he played as normal, always hit good and always just a bit better than me. Gosh, what I learned from some of those guys. Was at least a ball better when we parted ways.
 
While it is easy to say we can all hit absolutely dead center when we want to, I don't think that is reality. Putting some favorable spin on every shot eliminates the chance of inadvertently putting unfavorable spin on a shot.
 
BasementDweller said:
Also, the beauty of pool is found in the spin. A no english game would be so boring only an idiot could enjoy it. That may be a tad harsh but only a tad. When you think about the time you were initially bitten with the pool bug, if you were like me, it was at least partially due to spinning whitey all over God's green felt.

Spin away brother and enjoy yourself.
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I disagree. Running out without spin, when someone else would use it, is a thing of beauty.
 
All right where do I start. First of all how did "english" all of a sudden become "spin?" :)
We never called the use of english on the cue ball spin, NEVER! If we used outside english we might call it "throw" and inside english was just called "inside."

Okay, I got that out of the way. Secondly, it's very hard to hit dead center on the cue ball and only a few ever mastered that art, Buddy Hall being one of them. Buddy used center ball like a kill shot that would slowly roll forward after contact with the object ball. When he hit the cue ball with center ball it made a different and distinctive sound. It sounded like the cleanest of clean hits on the cue ball and very few others could duplicate that. That said, Buddy and all real pool players rarely try to hit center ball, using some degree of english on most every shot, whether it be high, low, left or right, or some variation of these, like high-left or low-right. I have to say it kind of bugs me when someone talks about using one tip inside english or a tip and half right or left english. I don't think the use of english can be categorized that finitely. A good player does not think about (and aim for) exactly one tip right, left or any other way. They are actually feeling the amount of english they need to execute the shot and it can't be described terms of one tip, two tips or any fraction in between. Instead it is a point on the cue ball where the player feels he needs to hit it (and at what speed) to move the cue ball to the next desired location. On one shot that may look like he's aiming slightly to the right of the vertical axis and also a little above the horizontal axis. And on another shot it will look completely different. Try discussing that point of aim using one tip this or that. You can't! That my friends is how english is applied to the cue ball by just about every player you are watching in these tournaments.

Okay I'll take a break now and see what comes up.
 
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jay helfert said:
All right where do I start. First of all how did "english" all of a sudden become "spin?" :)
We never called the use of english on the cue ball spin, NEVER! If we used outside english we might call it "throw" and inside english was just called "inside."

Okay, I got that out of the way. Secondly, it's very hard to hit dead center on the cue ball and only a few ever mastered that art, Buddy Hall being one of them. Buddy used center ball like a kill shot that would slowly roll forward after contact with the object ball. When he hit the cue ball with center ball it made a different and distinctive sound. It sounded like the cleanest of clean hits on the cue ball and very few others could duplicate that. That said, Buddy and all real pool players rarely try to hit center ball, using some degree of english on most every shot, whether it be high, low, left or right, or some variation of these, like high-left or low-right. I have to say it kind of bugs me when someone talks about using one tip inside english or a tip and half right or left english. I don't think the use of english can be categorized that finitely. A good player does not think about (and aim for) exactly one tip right, left or any other way. They are actually feeling the amount of english they need to execute the shot and it can't be described terms of one tip, two tips or any fraction in between. Instead it is a point on the cue ball where the player feels he needs to hit it (and at what speed) to move the cue ball to the next desired location. On one shot that may look like he's aiming slighty to the right of the vertical axis and also a little above the horizontal axis. And on another shot it will look completely different. Try discussing that point of aim using one tip this or that. You can't! That my friends is how english is applied to the cue ball by just about every player you are watching in these tournaments.

Okay I'll take a break now and see what comes up.
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I don't count tips of English, either.

I know where to hit the cue ball from playing thousands and thousands of hours.
 
Swighey said:
I disagree. Running out without spin, when someone else would use it, is a thing of beauty.
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You're not exactly disagreeing with what I said but with what you think I said. I too can find beauty in watching someone keeping it simple. However, keeping it simple usually still includes using english on most shots.

The difference is in how one goes about learning and playing the game themselves. I would have never gotten mesmerized by the game to begin with had some instructor told me to to stick to center ball for a year or some such nonsense.

Experiment, discover, and enjoy.
 
The "simple" drill fatboy mentioned isn't as simple as it sounds. Cue ball in spot...shoot vertical center to center diamond of far rail..stay down & hope the center of the cue ball comes back to your tip. This a good aiming exercise as well as cue ball tip placement exercise...at least for me it's easier said than done.
 
Spin is your friend if you play enough to master it. Spin also allows you to use throw to pocket balls and get out of all kinds of weird situations, but again you have to shoot the shots enough to get a hang for it.

I'd honestly recommend people stay away from most "english" until they can run 4-5 balls easily in rotation. It's powerful but throws a lot of variables into the mix.
 
One of the big benefits for using low outside English is you can hit the object ball fuller Which means the Cue ball will travel less after contact and head towards the center of the table often. And that’s just one there are a lot more benefits.

If you can’t make three balls in a row then I can understand why one of the instructors was saying to stay centered.
 
mrshifty said:
While it is easy to say we can all hit absolutely dead center when we want to, I don't think that is reality. Putting some favorable spin on every shot eliminates the chance of inadvertently putting unfavorable spin on a shot.
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Yep, and it's the same with all ball sports. You put deliberate spin on the tennis ball, golf ball, baseball, ping pong ball, soccer ball, volleyball to avoid putting accidental spin on it. Hitting anything dead neutral is hard.
 
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