Congratulations Shane-world pool masters champ

[corvette1340]

i checked but there arent any in this thead. here's what I saw on wiki, shane's record in the last 5 years:

2009 Derby City Classic 9-Ball Division
2010 Players Championship
2010 Ultimate 10 Ball Championship
2011 Derby City Classic Master of the Table
2011 Steve Mizerak Championship
2011 US Open 10 Ball Championship
2011 Turning Stone Classic XVIII
2011 2011 Pool Ocho Open
2012 U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship
2012 Derby City Master of the Table
2012 US Bar Table Championship - 10 Ball Division
2012 US Open One Pocket
2012 Players Championship
2013 US Open 8-Ball[18]
2013 US Bar Table Championship - 9 Ball Division
2013 U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship
2014 U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship

again, let me repeat my question. aside from US titles (and Shane's 1st major international title outside the US, WPM), where else did Shane dominate?
now look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Orcollo

Since 2007, Shane has won 64 Tournaments including a ton of majors and I'm not including Mosconi Cup, TAR matches, or any other challenge matches. He finished 2nd or 3rd in 38 more events not including any TAR or other challenge matches and won $1,195, 326, which is WAY more than anyone in that time period.

I'd say that's pretty dominating. The sample size of his overseas tourneys is way too small and most of them are short race, double elimination which lends itself to the weaker player and levels the playing field.

If the format was race to 13+ with winner breaks, Shane would win 60-70% of every tourney he enters regardless of the field. There's nobody in the world that will play him much less beat him in a real gambling match. All of this data points to one thing. He IS the best player on the planet.

 

[SakuJack]

If the format was race to 13+ with winner breaks, Shane would win 60-70% of every tourney he enters regardless of the field.

LOL!

GDC, I've enjoyed your posts in this thread, and you've made me take a lot of other things into account when discussing the enthusiasm of certain SVB fans here, particularly in terms of the failings of pool's governing bodies, but surely posts like the one above are worthy of derision?

 

[ineedaspot]

Since 2007, Shane has won 64 Tournaments including a ton of majors and I'm not including Mosconi Cup, TAR matches, or any other challenge matches. He finished 2nd or 3rd in 38 more events not including any TAR or other challenge matches and won $1,195, 326, which is WAY more than anyone in that time period.

I'd say that's pretty dominating. The sample size of his overseas tourneys is way too small and most of them are short race, double elimination which lends itself to the weaker player and levels the playing field.

If the format was race to 13+ with winner breaks, Shane would win 60-70% of every tourney he enters regardless of the field. There's nobody in the world that will play him much less beat him in a real gambling match. All of this data points to one thing. He IS the best player on the planet.

He hasn't won any tournament with a full contingent of Taiwan players. Taiwan is where a lot of the best players come from. He is dominant in the US, that's true. In order to become the best player in the world, he needs to show he can dominate world, not just the US. This means the Taiwanese, the Filipinos, the Europeans, and the other Asians.

As far as "best in the world", it doesn't matter how many US bar table tournaments he wins, or how much he's earned playing in tournaments that are less than world class. The world stage is the world stage. It's too bad there are really only about 3 tournaments per year with a world-class field from all regions (I'm thinking WPC, China, and Japan). If more Asians come to the US Open, we could at that to the list, but so far that hasn't happened, and Barry's antics surely aren't helping on that front.

Saying he'd win 60%-70% of tournaments he'd enter regardless of field is just dumb. There are at least 10 players in a world against whom he's not even a 60-70% favorite to win a single race to 13, if he's even a favorite at all.

 

[Kris_b1104]

He hasn't won any tournament with a full contingent of Taiwan players. Taiwan is where a lot of the best players come from. He is dominant in the US, that's true. In order to become the best player in the world, he needs to show he can dominate world, not just the US. This means the Taiwanese, the Filipinos, the Europeans, and the other Asians.

I keep seeing this over and over on the forum, the same statement, but the same people who say it can't even name more than 2 people from Taiwan that are so great, they only know the Ko brothers. What a shame...
Ko Pin Yi is actually one of my favorites but how can you say that that's where the best players come from and no one can name even a few of them?

 

[GDC]

LOL!

GDC, I've enjoyed your posts in this thread, and you've made me take a lot of other things into account when discussing the enthusiasm of certain SVB fans here, particularly in terms of the failings of pool's governing bodies, but surely posts like the one above are worthy of derision?

I won't chastize anyone for making conclusions about Shane given his win record is pretty staggering for a 31 year old. I do think there is a hurdle that I would like to see Shane get over. In another world, people say that Federer is the best tennis player ever and his tournament win record backs that up. But cold water gets thrown on that because he has a losing record against his career rival ... Rafa Nadal. Kinda hard to deny that.

I think Shane is the best player in the world right now and his tournament record/money record backs that up. But, I don't like his record against Chang and Ko. That was a long set (3.5hrs) against Ko. I don't think either guy played all that well and the standard of play was much, much higher at the USOpen against Orcollo. But regardless, Ko took him down.

We judge Earl and Efren as the best not because we are out there counting their 9B-WC wins (Efren only won one). That is why I think the WC word games on this thread are kinda meaningless. We judge Earl and Efren as the best because in their day, they had staggering tournament win records and they were tuning everybody in the world on every continent.

Shane has a staggering tournament win record. And when he hits a high gear, he is better than anyone in the world ... take a good look at the race to 50 against Ekonomopoulos. He makes the number 6 guy in the world look like an APA 4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3YSOu_ew4M. He really shows his high gear in this match ... he won by like 30 games ... seriously.

But, the Taiwan guys look pretty scary and what lies ahead in the next 5 or 10 years coming out of Asia could be even scarier. I would like to see Shane get into Asia and see more matchups.

It is a great time to be a fan of pool. There are so many damn good players out there.

 

[buddha162]

I keep seeing this over and over on the forum, the same statement, but the same people who say it can't even name more than 2 people from Taiwan that are so great, they only know the Ko brothers. What a shame...
Ko Pin Yi is actually one of my favorites but how can you say that that's where the best players come from and no one can name even a few of them?

That's the point.

You know Ko because they've been here, and people on azb talks about them. They are certainly top tier in Taiwan. But there are a dozen who play and compete at that level at any given time, 5 or 6 of whom are well known (Chang x2, Wu x2, Fu, etc), and the rest are virtual unknowns. That's why Taiwan is a powerhouse of the game, and has been for a couple of decades. Their top tier pro talent runs deep, with fresh blood all the time entering their pro tour and competing all over Asia.

The Philippines also has a deep roster of talent, but they develop theirs in a different way: through gambling and survival of the fittest. There are unknowns in the PI who are giving Busta the 8 ball playing 10 ball. Again, you know Busta, Reyes, maybe Carlo...but they are not even the cream of the crop.

The reason Shane is so well-recognized and dominant is because pool in the US is dead. There is no one else besides Shane.

If Shane were to relocate to Asia and play in the same tours/tournaments as the Taiwanese and Pinoys, he would not dominate. He will definitely be included in the top tier, but he would be among his peers. NO ONE dominates over there right now, the competition is just too fierce.

 

[Ron Swanson]

That's the point.

You know Ko because they've been here, and people on azb talks about them. They are certainly top tier in Taiwan. But there are a dozen who play and compete at that level at any given time, 5 or 6 of whom are well known (Chang x2, Wu x2, Fu, etc), and the rest are virtual unknowns. That's why Taiwan is a powerhouse of the game, and has been for a couple of decades. Their top tier pro talent runs deep, with fresh blood all the time entering their pro tour and competing all over Asia.

The Philippines also has a deep roster of talent, but they develop theirs in a different way: through gambling and survival of the fittest. There are unknowns in the PI who are giving Busta the 8 ball playing 10 ball. Again, you know Busta, Reyes, maybe Carlo...but they are not even the cream of the crop.

The reason Shane is so well-recognized and dominant is because pool in the US is dead. There is no one else besides Shane.

If Shane were to relocate to Asia and play in the same tours/tournaments as the Taiwanese and Pinoys, he would not dominate. He will definitely be included in the top tier, but he would be among his peers. NO ONE dominates over there right now, the competition is just too fierce.

All very true. You clearly know more about pool than you do snooker.

What's more, shane is all you'll EVER have.

 

[buddha162]

All very true. You clearly know more about pool than you do snooker.

Touche Ron, touche. You clearly know more about pool than you do physics

What's more, shane is all you'll EVER have.

I hope that's not true, but I see no one on the horizon...

 

[Jaden]

At the same time Ko has flubbed some too.

I won't chastize anyone for making conclusions about Shane given his win record is pretty staggering for a 31 year old. I do think there is a hurdle that I would like to see Shane get over. In another world, people say that Federer is the best tennis player ever and his tournament win record backs that up. But cold water gets thrown on that because he has a losing record against his career rival ... Rafa Nadal. Kinda hard to deny that.

I think Shane is the best player in the world right now and his tournament record/money record backs that up. But, I don't like his record against Chang and Ko. That was a long set (3.5hrs) against Ko. I don't think either guy played all that well and the standard of play was much, much higher at the USOpen against Orcollo. But regardless, Ko took him down.

We judge Earl and Efren as the best not because we are out there counting their 9B-WC wins (Efren only won one). That is why I think the WC word games on this thread are kinda meaningless. We judge Earl and Efren as the best because in their day, they had staggering tournament win records and they were tuning everybody in the world on every continent.

Shane has a staggering tournament win record. And when he hits a high gear, he is better than anyone in the world ... take a good look at the race to 50 against Ekonomopoulos. He makes the number 6 guy in the world look like an APA 4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3YSOu_ew4M. He really shows his high gear in this match ... he won by like 30 games ... seriously.

But, the Taiwan guys look pretty scary and what lies ahead in the next 5 or 10 years coming out of Asia could be even scarier. I would like to see Shane get into Asia and see more matchups.

It is a great time to be a fan of pool. There are so many damn good players out there.

Watch his win over Ernesto at Hard times from POV pool. It was good, but both Ernesto and I played better in our match against each other this weekend than either of them, (Ernesto and Ko) did in that match at Hard times, so taking a single match or even two or three against a single opponent doesn't necessarily mean that much.

Like I've said, it's possible that Ko will turn out to be even more dominant than Shane has been, but that hasn't been the case yet, regardless as to whether he beat Shane in a couple of match ups.

Jaden

p.s. I will say one thing, I look forward to Ko and Shane playing again. I'd like to see them play a longer match or several matches over a few days cause I think Ko may be the only player that would make it really interesting if Shane is in gear.

 

[buddha162]

Like I've said, it's possible that Ko will turn out to be even more dominant than Shane has been, but that hasn't been the case yet, regardless as to whether he beat Shane in a couple of match ups.

Ko is not as dominant as Shane in Asia bc the competition there is far more stiff.

That's just a fact, no one would deny this...not even Shane.

 

[Jaden]

You can' t jump to that conclusion...

Ko is not as dominant as Shane in Asia bc the competition there is far more stiff.

That's just a fact, no one would deny this...not even Shane.

Shane got fifth in the China open, so what, Shane is better than all but the one person who beat him in that MUCH TOUGHER field?

Get out of here with that. You can't come to the conclusion that the fields are tougher there because Someone who beat Shane in a match or two hasn't been dominant there while Shane has been dominant here...

Who won the world pool championship with all those players in it this year??? and when's the last time HE beat Shane or how many tournaments that they both played in did Neils finish higher than Shane???

Jaden

 

[GDC]

Does any one who will be at the Pacquiao event in the PI in Dec? Of course SVB and the Pinoys will be there. What about the Euros and Taiwanese? I think that is the biggest money event this year (but yet sadly nowhere on the WPA points list). There should be some big matchups there. iI am also looking forward to the doubles with SVB and Robocop vs the world.

 

[buddha162]

Shane got fifth in the China open, so what? Shane is better than all but the one person who beat him in that MUCH TOUGHER field?

Get out of here with that. You can't come to the conclusion that the fields are tougher there because Someone who beat Shane in a match or two hasn't been dominant there while Shane has been dominant here...

Who won the world pool championship with all those players in it this year??? and when's the last time HE beat Shane or how many tournaments that they both played in did Neils finish higher than Shane???

Jaden

You just don't get it.

You think someone like me, pointing out the obvious fact that the competition in Asia is stiffer is somehow taking something away from Shane. This couldn't be further from the truth. The mere fact that everyone (including the Asian players/commentators) agree that Shane firmly belongs to that top tier of international competition is remarkable, given that he's attained that level of play virtually in a vacuum.

The top guys from Taiwan have been culled from a vast pool-playing population, supported by government money and school programs. When Wu won the world championship at the tender age of 16, it was the result of a concerted effort by an established and efficient pool machine that recognizes talent early and has a program in place to nurture it. There are separate tours for the regional, national, and top tier pros, with the latter televised in front of a live audience. That kind of preparation is invaluable for young professional players.

In the Philippines, guys like Efren and Busty are household names. Think about that for a moment, and appreciate just how pervasive pocket billiards is ingrained in the national psyche for Efren to be recognizable in any public setting. Tens of thousands of pool halls with tens of thousands of players gambling for a living wage.

Compare that to Shane practicing his break for 10 hours a day in a South Dakota basement. What's surprising is not that Shane would fail to dominate in Asia, but rather that he could compete on that level to begin with. We basically got a lucky roll in Shane, that we could still even talk about US pool in the same breath as the Taiwanese and Pinoys.

 

[Jaden]

no I get it...

You just don't get it.

You think someone like me, pointing out the obvious fact that the competition in Asia is stiffer is somehow taking something away from Shane. This couldn't be further from the truth. The mere fact that everyone (including the Asian players/commentators) agree that Shane firmly belongs to that top tier of international competition is remarkable, given that he's attained that level of play virtually in a vacuum.

The top guys from Taiwan have been culled from a vast pool-playing population, supported by government money and school programs. When Wu won the world championship at the tender age of 16, it was the result of a concerted effort by an established and efficient pool machine that recognizes talent early and has a program in place to nurture it. There are separate tours for the regional, national, and top tier pros, with the latter televised in front of a live audience. That kind of preparation is invaluable for young professional players.

In the Philippines, guys like Efren and Busty are household names. Think about that for a moment, and appreciate just how pervasive pocket billiards is ingrained in the national psyche for Efren to be recognizable in any public setting. Tens of thousands of pool halls with tens of thousands of players gambling for a living wage.

Compare that to Shane practicing his break for 10 hours a day in a South Dakota basement. What's surprising is not that Shane would fail to dominate in Asia, but rather that he could compete on that level to begin with. We basically got a lucky roll in Shane, that we could still even talk about US pool in the same breath as the Taiwanese and Pinoys.

I just don't think that the competition is stiffer in Asia is what I'm saying.

Our players compete with the asians all the time. Our better players, with the exception of Shane, typically don't travel to Asia, but the Asians come here all the time, the Europeans come here all the time, Shane's right there at the top of the leader board without even competing in four of the seven events that the WPA uses. He played in 0 Euro tour events which the points from make up all the difference between him and the number one spot and then some.

I do find it kinda funny that you pick the one nation to claim has the best players that don't typically come to the US even though the Euros come to the US, the Pinoys come to the US, The Chinese come to the US.

I've seen first hand how good some of these players are. I'm looking for Wang Can to do really well in the pool scene. I played him and know exactly where his game is and as young as he is, he has plenty of time to do some stuff on the pool scene.

The winner's of these world championships that everyone keeps lauding get dominated by Shane in the tournaments that he plays in. He played in what three international individual tournaments this year with these tough fields you talk about and he won one of them and got fifth in two more only losing to one person when it had gotten down to single elimination in two of them.

He finished higher than all but two people in both of the tourneys he didn't win and tied overall in those two tourneys with one. If you count all three tourneys, he had the highest combined finish.

So, no I think you're wrong that those tourneys over there are any more difficult than the ones here. The same people winning those "tougher" tourneys aren't topping Shane in the majority of tournaments they all play in.

So, I DO get what you're trying to say, and it has nothing to do with me thinking that you're putting down Shane. The fixation on Shane here is coming solely from you. Any time he's brought up, you and several others have to jump in and say how he isn't competing against the best.

Bullshit. He competes against the best all the time. If the Euro tour and the Asian tourneys are so great, why do so many players come to the US and move to the US to compete for as long as they can? So they can get worse from playing worse competition? Because the World Champions that have moved here to compete aren't good enough to win overseas???

What is it? Why do the best players move to the US instead of these places where they can get so much better from the better competition?

Jaden

 

[arps]

Since 2007, Shane has won 64 Tournaments including a ton of majors and I'm not including Mosconi Cup, TAR matches, or any other challenge matches. He finished 2nd or 3rd in 38 more events not including any TAR or other challenge matches and won $1,195, 326, which is WAY more than anyone in that time period.

i bet all these 64 tournaments were played in the US, hence making Shane the best in the US. that i agree with.

If the format was race to 13+ with winner breaks, Shane would win 60-70% of every tourney he enters regardless of the field. There's nobody in the world that will play him much less beat him in a real gambling match. All of this data points to one thing. He IS the best player on the planet.

cant he win in an alternating break format considering his superior break and high break-and-run percentage? have you heard of the long races where SVB was beaten by players like Pagulayan, Bustamante, Ko, etc.? Shane and Biado have met a couple of times in a tournament and as far as i know, Shane only won once (2013 US Open 8-ball finals, 13-11 score). so how can you say that no one would play him in a gambling match? Shane will be here in the Philippines late this year. do you honestly think no one would play him in a money game?

Shane got fifth in the China open...

that's actually 5th-8th.

 

[buddha162]

I just don't think that the competition is stiffer in Asia is what I'm saying.

I know, that's why I spent time trying to correct you.

I do find it kinda funny that you pick the one nation to claim has the best players that don't typically come to the US even though the Euros come to the US, the Pinoys come to the US, The Chinese come to the US.

Why is that funny?

The pinoys who you see here are the ones who manage to get a visa.

The Taiwanese players have a real tour to play at home, and there isn't a big enough draw for most of them to come here. Sad but true.

I've seen first hand how good some of these players are. I'm looking for Wang Can to do really well in the pool scene.

You realize that Wang is from China, not Taiwan?

He played in what three international individual tournaments this year with these tough fields you talk about and he won one of them and got fifth in two more only losing to one person when it had gotten down to single elimination in two of them.

Yeah? Which one did he win?

Anyway, you seem impervious to evidence and argument. Continue to live at the bottom of your little well, thinking Shane is the big fish. People who actually know what they're talking about will know that so far, Shane is only a big fish in a small pond. Swim out of that pond and there are plenty of big fish around.

 

[GDC]

i bet all these 64 tournaments were played in the US, hence making Shane the best in the US. that i agree with.


cant he win in an alternating break format considering his superior break and high break-and-run percentage? have you heard of the long races where SVB was beaten by players like Pagulayan, Bustamante, Ko, etc.? Shane and Biado have met a couple of times in a tournament and as far as i know, Shane only won once (2013 US Open 8-ball finals, 13-11 score). so how can you say that no one would play him in a gambling match? Shane will be here in the Philippines late this year. do you honestly think no one would play him in a money game?



that's actually 5th-8th.

You have a double standard when you post stuff like this ... "i bet all these 64 tournaments were played in the US, hence making Shane the best in the US. that i agree with."

On one hand, following your logic if SVB plays a local tournament in Taiwan or PI, then he is competing against true international competition and a "world" field. But then if he wins a tournament in the US, he isn't? That is way your post above reads. Events like the US Open, the Derby are not little regional US events. There are some big hitters (and WPA World Champions ) in those events that are not American.

As I have stated in my previous post, I would like to see Shane in Asia. And the competition there is scary. But, I can't watch you post stuff like that ... it denigrates the big tournaments that the U.S. has... which Shane as won.

And P.S. When you post "i bet all these 64 tournaments were played in the US". You don't even acknowledge that he just won his first big event overseas which is what this entire thread was about to begin with.

 

[medallio]

I think people feel the need to defend Shane because anytime he wins anything all we hear is "yeah,but.....". He only won against a weak field, he manipulated the rack, it's ONLY because of his break...the list goes on. Shane is a frickin beast IMO. I understand he can't beat everybody 100% of the time, but I don't believe he's a big fish in a small pond. How come Taiwanese players aren't winning everything under the sun if they are so awesome? Where are these unknown monsters who will steal his money if they gamble? Lastly, the talent is still here in America but sadly without much support for the pool scene I assume our "unknown monsters" move on to different things in life.

 

[one stroke]

I just don't think that the competition is stiffer in Asia is what I'm saying.

Our players compete with the asians all the time. Our better players, with the exception of Shane, typically don't travel to Asia, but the Asians come here all the time, the Europeans come here all the time, Shane's right there at the top of the leader board without even competing in four of the seven events that the WPA uses. He played in 0 Euro tour events which the points from make up all the difference between him and the number one spot and then some.

I do find it kinda funny that you pick the one nation to claim has the best players that don't typically come to the US even though the Euros come to the US, the Pinoys come to the US, The Chinese come to the US.

I've seen first hand how good some of these players are. I'm looking for Wang Can to do really well in the pool scene. I played him and know exactly where his game is and as young as he is, he has plenty of time to do some stuff on the pool scene.

The winner's of these world championships that everyone keeps lauding get dominated by Shane in the tournaments that he plays in. He played in what three international individual tournaments this year with these tough fields you talk about and he won one of them and got fifth in two more only losing to one person when it had gotten down to single elimination in two of them.

He finished higher than all but two people in both of the tourneys he didn't win and tied overall in those two tourneys with one. If you count all three tourneys, he had the highest combined finish.

So, no I think you're wrong that those tourneys over there are any more difficult than the ones here. The same people winning those "tougher" tourneys aren't topping Shane in the majority of tournaments they all play in.

So, I DO get what you're trying to say, and it has nothing to do with me thinking that you're putting down Shane. The fixation on Shane here is coming solely from you. Any time he's brought up, you and several others have to jump in and say how he isn't competing against the best.

Bullshit. He competes against the best all the time. If the Euro tour and the Asian tourneys are so great, why do so many players come to the US and move to the US to compete for as long as they can? So they can get worse from playing worse competition? Because the World Champions that have moved here to compete aren't good enough to win overseas???

What is it? Why do the best players move to the US instead of these places where they can get so much better from the better competition?

Jaden

Well that answer is easy , it's the USA everyone wants to come here not just for pool but everything else we have that their countries don't ,,

1

 

[sonnymanila]

Shane is a freaking monster... the best in the world. Winning 3 straight US Open championship. I was always rooting for the pinoys (esp Busty) to win it, but they always choke in the end.