Conversion Cues by Unknown Makers

[boogieman]

Titleist Conversion cues by an unknown maker for upwards of $1000 or at least not famous makers. Any reason to pay that much?

It would probably be tough to find an unmolested blank/original for that. A cuemaker isn't going to do all the work of a conversion to make $50 in the process.

The cues are ever more expensive so unless you happen upon a bargain somewhere you will pay a premium. If I had a bunch on hand I bought for $50 I would still charge market price on them if a customer wanted one. Replacement cost is a thing.

 

[Chopdoc]

Any reason to pay that much?

If you like it and have the disposable income. It may not even matter how it plays.

There are a lot of relatively worthless things out there that people sometimes spend a lot of money on.

It's relative anyway.

A grand isn't much money to many.

 

[boogieman]

A grand isn't much money to many.

A grand is a pretty significant amount for me. I mean, it's not going to put me on the street or anything but I'm done with credit card debt. It might take me 3 or 4 months siphoning off funds to come up with that as "extra." At one time I would drop 3 grand on stuff and pay the CC bill. Never enough to get in too deep or anything, but I'm done paying interest to somebody else for convenience. Instead I'll try to save on interest and allow myself to buy more stuff. Patience pays, but damn it's annoying. I want my shit and I want it now!

I'm getting into cuemaking and most people wouldn't believe the learning curve, tooling and material cost to start out. I'm trying to keep it "budget friendly" but damn is it annoying to piece stuff together every couple weeks rather than to buy it all up front.

I've never negotiated with what a cuemaker asks for cues, but actually getting into it is an eye opening experience to what it actually costs, and I'm small time hobbyist level. Established cuemakers with multiple lathes and all the specialty machines, custom tooling, paint booths, etc have an absolutely HUGE investment to be able to make cues. It's an eye watering, downright staggering investment that's easy to not understand on the part of the customer.

Heck, once I spend another grand or two I'll be able to make a cue and there's no guarantee I won't mess up and end up with it being expensive firewood! I sure hope not but expensive mistakes happen. When a cuemaker is using a Titleist as a blank mistakes can be very expensive so it takes a pretty decent amount of skill and experience to even be comfortable approaching such a project. Then add in the fact the old glue may be bad, de-laminations etc. It's not easy and financially you would be better to build from scratch or with a new pre-made blank, way less opportunity for expensive errors that way.

Really $1000 for a completed cue is pretty cheap. Most well known makers charge that for a well made pretty/fancy sneaky. You're paying for quality and experience and that is a hard earned thing.

 

[Chopdoc]

A grand is a pretty significant amount for me. I mean, it's not going to put me on the street or anything but I'm done with credit card debt. It might take me 3 or 4 months siphoning off funds to come up with that as "extra." At one time I would drop 3 grand on stuff and pay the CC bill. Never enough to get in too deep or anything, but I'm done paying interest to somebody else for convenience. Instead I'll try to save on interest and allow myself to buy more stuff. Patience pays, but damn it's annoying. I want my shit and I want it now!

I'm getting into cuemaking and most people wouldn't believe the learning curve, tooling and material cost to start out. I'm trying to keep it "budget friendly" but damn is it annoying to piece stuff together every couple weeks rather than to buy it all up front.

I've never negotiated with what a cuemaker asks for cues, but actually getting into it is an eye opening experience to what it actually costs, and I'm small time hobbyist level. Established cuemakers with multiple lathes and all the specialty machines, custom tooling, paint booths, etc have an absolutely HUGE investment to be able to make cues. It's an eye watering, downright staggering investment that's easy to not understand on the part of the customer.

Heck, once I spend another grand or two I'll be able to make a cue and there's no guarantee I won't mess up and end up with it being expensive firewood! I sure hope not but expensive mistakes happen. When a cuemaker is using a Titleist as a blank mistakes can be very expensive so it takes a pretty decent amount of skill and experience to even be comfortable approaching such a project. Then add in the fact the old glue may be bad, de-laminations etc. It's not easy and financially you would be better to build from scratch or with a new pre-made blank, way less opportunity for expensive errors that way.

Really $1000 for a completed cue is pretty cheap. Most well known makers charge that for a well made pretty/fancy sneaky. You're paying for quality and experience and that is a hard earned thing.

I understand and agree.

Yet, it has been said that the vast majority of Americans can come up with $1,000 in a day if needed.

I haven't had credit cards in something like 20 years.

To makes cues, one could easily drop 40 grand just to get started if one went "all in". (Just pulling out a number for an example.)

When I look at my field, it's estimated it takes 2 to 3 million to make one physician. The tuition they pay is the minor part. The cost to society and the institutions is largely "absorbed". The cost of errors is an entirely different matter than just making scrap wood.

So, what is a "huge" investment? That's very relative. The effort and dedication can be very hard to put a number on. Then of course there is the aptitude, talent, and skill. Again, hard to put a number on.

As far as the topic at hand, I have in my life paid whatever amount for something just because I liked it and I wanted it. I think only once did I pay too much for a cue. Why did I do it? I liked it, I wanted it, and finding another would have been an unreasonable adventure.

If someone does that and it causes them financial harm, or takes essentials away from their table or their family, that's irresponsible. But an entire market for hilariously overpriced luxury goods exists that are tremendously over priced.

The flat out truth is that most of what we are talking about are in fact luxury goods.

To help alleviate the angst that I experienced by passing up so many cues I wanted, I got into collecting research and pictures. It's fun. I still regret passing up a few that I actually hate thinking about. And I regret selling one that I hate thinking about. In spite of all that, I have a lot of cues.

 

[boogieman]

I understand and agree.

Yet, it has been said that the vast majority of Americans can come up with $1,000 in a day if needed.

I haven't had credit cards in something like 20 years.

To makes cues, one could easily drop 40 grand just to get started if one went "all in". (Just pulling out a number for an example.)

When I look at my field, it's estimated it takes 2 to 3 million to make one physician. The tuition they pay is the minor part. The cost to society and the institutions is largely "absorbed". The cost of errors is an entirely different matter than just making scrap wood.

So, what is a "huge" investment? That's very relative. The effort and dedication can be very hard to put a number on. Then of course there is the aptitude, talent, and skill. Again, hard to put a number on.

As far as the topic at hand, I have in my life paid whatever amount for something just because I liked it and I wanted it. I think only once did I pay too much for a cue. Why did I do it? I liked it, I wanted it, and finding another would have been an unreasonable adventure.

If someone does that and it causes them financial harm, or takes essentials away from their table or their family, that's irresponsible. But an entire market for hilariously overpriced luxury goods exists that are tremendously over priced.

The flat out truth is that most of what we are talking about are in fact luxury goods.

To help alleviate the angst that I experienced by passing up so many cues I wanted, I got into collecting research and pictures. It's fun. I still regret passing up a few that I actually hate thinking about. And I regret selling one that I hate thinking about. In spite of all that, I have a lot of cues.

Agree. Anything over about a $350 cue is just luxury, even that is more money invested than needed to play well. I'm sure with a McDermott Lucky line you could easily become a big fish in a small pond with practice and work ethic. It's nice to have/play with nice things. We have some collectors posting dozens of high value cues and that's awesome. No hate here, I feel fortunate to get a chance to look at these amazing cues and I enjoy the eye candy.

My attitude on this stuff is when you see your friends getting ahead or nice toys, that's awesome! You can be happy for your friends, that's not a weakness. It's not a competition and jealousy really is just a form of emotional immaturity. Life is more enjoyable when you're not a hater. I'd rather see my friends eating steak and enjoying the good life.

If I had to come up with a grand I could without much "hurt" but I'd rather reserve that for necessary things. I figure with cuemaking it will be a while before I turn out truly good/desirable cues. It's just a hobby so it's much easier to justify funding it slowly to not effect the everyday.

Now if I wanted a new motorcycle or something tomorrow I'd be ok with financing but I'll just save up the nickels to rub together for this cue making adventure.

 

[SSDiver2112]

Agree. Anything over about a $350 cue is just luxury, even that is more money invested than needed to play well. I'm sure with a McDermott Lucky line you could easily become a big fish in a small pond with practice and work ethic. It's nice to have/play with nice things. We have some collectors posting dozens of high value cues and that's awesome. No hate here, I feel fortunate to get a chance to look at these amazing cues and I enjoy the eye candy.

My attitude on this stuff is when you see your friends getting ahead or nice toys, that's awesome! You can be happy for your friends, that's not a weakness. It's not a competition and jealousy really is just a form of emotional immaturity. Life is more enjoyable when you're not a hater. I'd rather see my friends eating steak and enjoying the good life.

If I had to come up with a grand I could without much "hurt" but I'd rather reserve that for necessary things. I figure with cuemaking it will be a while before I turn out truly good/desirable cues. It's just a hobby so it's much easier to justify funding it slowly to not effect the everyday.

Now if I wanted a new motorcycle or something tomorrow I'd be ok with financing but I'll just save up the nickels to rub together for this cue making adventure.

Are you just working to build cues only or are you trying to be a local repair tech as well? Starting as a repair guy helped me a lot. I used that experience to build my skills up while I slowly built-up tools and wood. I started with a local bar with house cues in horrendous condition. I offered to repair them all for free. The experience was worth it every penny I spent on them. Lots of tips and ferrules, a few butt repairs and even rebuilding one breaking in half. They're already beat-up so there is less stress about messing up.

Once you're more comfortable you can work on other people's cues if that interests you. Most hobbies are just money pits, but this way the money made on repairs can be reinvested in more wood and tools.

 

[boogieman]

Are you just working to build cues only or are you trying to be a local repair tech as well? Starting as a repair guy helped me a lot. I used that experience to build my skills up while I slowly built-up tools and wood. I started with a local bar with house cues in horrendous condition. I offered to repair them all for free. The experience was worth it every penny I spent on them. Lots of tips and ferrules, a few butt repairs and even rebuilding one breaking in half. They're already beat-up so there is less stress about messing up.

Once you're more comfortable you can work on other people's cues if that interests you. Most hobbies are just money pits, but this way the money made on repairs can be reinvested in more wood and tools.

I'd rather build cues but repair work allows me to buy supplies. I've repaired the pool hall's house cues for free. They are very poor quality and most were broke off 3-4" from the ferrule. It was great experience and only cost me $2-3 per cue but gave me a ton of experience on tennon/ferrule work. I think they had 15 broken cues! I've been using compression method but eventually I'd like to invest in live threading, that's when stuff gets serious. I've replaced a few ferrules on my own stuff, put a few tips on and the like. I'm not really advertising repair but I get about 1 tip job every week or two. We don't really have a local repair person in town so even without advertising it I'm already getting a bit or work. I do my utmost to do a perfect job on anything I touch. I care way more about putting out top tier quality and building a good rep than the money.

I have a bunch of old dufferin and a few valley house cues I plan to play around with, that's what I plan on doing first, though I can't resist buying some nice wood in the meantime for my first "one off."

Right now I'm just kind of investing in tooling, I need a river of wood at some point but for now I'm investing slowly and studying. "Once I'm happy on tooling (about $300-400 from that point now, so getting close) I'll start buying a dozen pins or so to start playing with. I don't really want to die so I also need to get a dust collector figured out sooner rather than later. I'm in a state of excited expectation but I figure the more I learn and the more patient I am at this point the more headaches I'll save over just making expensive firewood.

I've basically just starting to dip my toes in at this point but man is it ever fun!

 

[Cicerone88]

I discovered Ed Robinson custom cues on Facebook and he does Titlist conversions for a very reasonable price (well below 1k). Can’t say enough good things about Ed’s cues. Even his standard maple shaft I switched over from my predator vantage.

Here’s some examples below including my own. I paid $675 for mine and absolutely love it.

 

[Black-Balled]

And don't sleep the fact that lots of 'unknowns' work under the tutelage of established makers too.

 

[pooldawg8]

And don't sleep the fact that lots of 'unknowns' work under the tutelage of established makers too.

And that`s a fact Jack.

 

[classiccues]

The titleist is pure. Before it, was chaos. The titlist could be credited with establishing the base cue for the last 80 years. It was the start of the modern age. Rambow, Balabushka, Palmer, Paradise the list is endless. People still love the titleist. The fact is, it is still one of the most sought after and recognizable cues today.
JV

 

[Chopdoc]

I discovered Ed Robinson custom cues on Facebook and he does Titlist conversions for a very reasonable price (well below 1k). Can’t say enough good things about Ed’s cues. Even his standard maple shaft I switched over from my predator vantage.

Here’s some examples below including my own. I paid $675 for mine and absolutely love it.

View attachment 823798View attachment 823799

I have been very attracted to his work.

 

[Chopdoc]

The titleist is pure. Before it, was chaos. The titlist could be credited with establishing the base cue for the last 80 years. It was the start of the modern age. Rambow, Balabushka, Palmer, Paradise the list is endless. People still love the titleist. The fact is, it is still one of the most sought after and recognizable cues today.

Yup.

And they made millions. Sometimes we trash on "mass produced" cues, but that's what they were.

Certain versions are highly prized, but there are many of the garden variety out there. Their prices are slowly rising, but occasionally you can still find one for cheap if you are always hunting.

They have gotten progressively more scarce but there does seem to be a constant trickle supply of them. A lot of people have hoarded a small stash of them, a few have a big stash I think.

I really enjoy the few conversions and few originals I have. They are simply cool cues for the reasons you said and more.

Back in the mid-eighties there was a little snack bar in the coal patch town I lived in for a while. They had a coin op bar table...and a bunch of nice Brunswick Hoppe cues on the wall, maybe ten of them. I sure do wish I had made an offer on those. Maybe traded some nice new Dufferin house cues, I bet the owner would have done for that. Nobody really like them, they had a couple Valley Supremes that people mostly used. Not kidding. They used to call them "those cheap two piece cues" and stuff like that. I had my Joss, so I didn't care about the house cues much. At that time I was still breaking with my Joss.

 

[Chopdoc]

That’s my point. If someone brought me the titlist cue and it was a simple conversion, that’s about right. Adjusting a little for inflation

There’s a Jacoby on eBay for almost $3000. Prices will be all over the place depending on type of titlest, complexity of the conversion, maker etc.

Didn't an AZB member have that Jacoby made years ago?

Many recommended other makers but he went with Jacoby. It's a nice cue. Expensive.

 

[maha]

i used to buy them off the wall from pool rooms for 5 bucks a piece. i got to pick the good ones. they were 8 bucks for the room to buy new.

i then took them to frank or gene and had conversions made for 20 to 30 bucks depending on what i wanted.

most made to look like a standard rambo (hoppe ring). gene made mine his #4 in one of his catalogs and started selling them and put me out of business, sort of.

funny, now they are worth 70 times what i paid and the finished cues are worth 30 times.