Cored with Phenolic Rod

[JoeyInCali]

Chuck, we are not just talking about the A-joint post # 57 which you may have missed has some photo's that will give you idea what I am doing. Chuck, since you have some experience in machining and engineering please take a look and let me know what you think.

Thanks Chuck

Craig let's take it this way.
If your idea does work as you mentioned ( more stable, cue hits very well and phenolic actually increases the tone of the cue ), would there be a legitimate reason why ANYONE would not want to do it to their cues?

 

[manwon]

Craig let's take it this way.
If your idea does work as you mentioned ( more stable, cue hits very well and phenolic actually increases the tone of the cue ), would there be a legitimate reason why ANYONE would not want to do it to their cues?

Joey, the fact is that are many others doing similar things to their cues. I am just trying to pass along a little information that I found that will work if some one is looking for an alternative to what they are currently doing.

I think the real question is why would people want to claim that it is impossible, that it won't work, that cues built this will not transmit hit very well, or make any other statements unless they do not want others to try it for themselves.

It really gets me, what I have proposed hurts no one, destroys no equipment, and yet people who have not built a cue using the process I explained are trying very hard to push this information back under a rug.

Thats what I think Joey, can you see my point, or am I off base. I mean some experienced cue makers right on this forum are testing this as we speak. They can see the benefits that can be gained if it works for them, all I can say is this can of worms is open, and even if I stop talking now others will speak soon. Then what will be said that even though they have building cues for 20 plus years they have not reached a level where they know enough yet to have an opinion.!!!!!!:smile:

 

[dave sutton]

The only person calling people Morons because he doesn't agree with them is your Boy Eric Crisp. Check my first post #5 then check his post#6 where he started the exact Bull Shit your speaking of above.

That's the "crap" I was revering too

Dave, I do not know if you missed part of the thread or if you are blinded by his light, but that is also the Nut Hugging I was refering too.

Take Care Buddy.

LOL. Nut hugging. Anyone that knows me knows I am not a fan or erics cues. Style wise. I like him as a person and love his posts about tone but I am a traditionalist only. I was offered a few of his cues but not my bag. I declined. Same goes for Titlist conversions with 40,000 rings up and down the cue. Noty bag either buy I repect everyones artistic perception

It's the words I'm interested in. You still haven't answered my question yet.

What's my Integrity have to do with not wanting to core wood with phenolic

 

[JoeyInCali]

I think the real question is why would people want to claim that it is impossible, that it won't work, that cues built this will not transmit hit very well, or make any other statements unless they do not want others to try it for themselves.
Who said it was IMPOSSIBLE?
So, you are insinuating those who think linen phenolic tube full-length of the forearm would have a negative effect in the cue's hit do so b/c they have a hidden agenda ?
Craig, those who do not learn in this business eventually fold.
You mentioned about tenonless A-joint. There's this famous maker who taught three people to make cues. Those three believed him you don't need a tenon. So their cues never became famed for their hit. They looked nice. They even had a website (two partnered up ). They are gone. Maybe they should have asked why their cues weren't selling even though they were supposed to be constructed the same way as their teacher? I think he held up on them and if they were not smart enough to figure it out, too bad.
It really gets me, what I have proposed hurts no one, destroys no equipment, and yet people who have not built a cue using the process I explained are trying very hard to push this information back under a rug.
Why would it hurt you? It should make you smile b/c you will have a better hitting cue than he does.

Thats what I think Joey, can you see my point, or am I off base. I mean some experienced cue makers right on this forum are testing this as we speak. They can see the benefits that can be gained if it works for them, all I can say is this can of worms is open, and even if I stop talking now others will speak soon. Then what will be said that even though they have building cues for 20 plus years they have not reached a level where they know enough yet to have an opinion.!!!!!!:
Well good for them. Maybe that's what separates them from the bad cuemakers, open mindedness.
But, if you can't accept a maker's adamant stance that he won't put a long tube in his cue after's he's toned the material, you're wasting energy in trying to convince him otherwise. Specially when his cues are more famous than yours. Specially when he already has found the formula for his cues' hit and deviating from that MAJORLY will alter the hit of his cues .
Arguing and going on a peeing contest is futile. PROVE HIM WRONG in the hands of the people. Get your cues out there. Smile when you take a ton of orders.

Mike Webb said, just because you don't do it, don't condemn.
Good luck in your cuemaking endeavors.

 

[Michael Webb]

Looks like I missed another adventure, Did anyone find my marbles. :grin:

 

[dave sutton]

And now Sutton in post 74 is accusing Manwon of cursing every three words, yet I can't find an example of that. Wow, these guys are so insincere!!!!!! JMHO

from the looks of this post it seems you have a hard time with reading comprehension. i never said he cursed every 3 words. i said hes become the guy that has to curse bc he cant hold a conversation. it was a similie

Similes - comparisons that show how two things that are not alike in most ways are similar in one important way. Similes are a way to describe something. Authors use them to make their writing more interesting or entertaining.

by calling in to question my integrity along with other makers integrity just to make his point look better or bc we didnt agree is not right and has nothing to do with this debate

Integrity is consistency of actions, values, methods, measures and principles

hope this helps...

 

[manwon]

I think the real question is why would people want to claim that it is impossible, that it won't work, that cues built this will not transmit hit very well, or make any other statements unless they do not want others to try it for themselves.
Who said it was IMPOSSIBLE?
So, you are insinuating those who think linen phenolic tube full-length of the forearm would have a negative effect in the cue's hit do so b/c they have a hidden agenda ?
Craig, those who do not learn in this business eventually fold.
You mentioned about tenonless A-joint. There's this famous maker who taught three people to make cues. Those three believed him you don't need a tenon. So their cues never became famed for their hit. They looked nice. They even had a website (two partnered up ). They are gone. Maybe they should have asked why their cues weren't selling even though they were supposed to be constructed the same way as their teacher? I think he held up on them and if they were not smart enough to figure it out, too bad.
It really gets me, what I have proposed hurts no one, destroys no equipment, and yet people who have not built a cue using the process I explained are trying very hard to push this information back under a rug.
Why would it hurt you? It should make you smile b/c you will have a better hitting cue than he does.

Thats what I think Joey, can you see my point, or am I off base. I mean some experienced cue makers right on this forum are testing this as we speak. They can see the benefits that can be gained if it works for them, all I can say is this can of worms is open, and even if I stop talking now others will speak soon. Then what will be said that even though they have building cues for 20 plus years they have not reached a level where they know enough yet to have an opinion.!!!!!!:
Well good for them. Maybe that's what separates them from the bad cuemakers, open mindedness.
But, if you can't accept a maker's adamant stance that he won't put a long tube in his cue after's he's toned the material, you're wasting energy in trying to convince him otherwise. Specially when his cues are more famous than yours. Specially when he already has found the formula for his cues' hit and deviating from that MAJORLY will alter the hit of his cues .
Arguing and going on a peeing contest is futile. PROVE HIM WRONG in the hands of the people. Get your cues out there. Smile when you take a ton of orders.

Mike Webb said, just because you don't do it, don't condemn.
Good luck in your cuemaking endeavors.

Joey, either your not listening or you are intentional avoiding what I specifically said. I could careless if anyone agrees or even tries anything I have said, that is their choice. But to say something is impossible, or that some one has no business to try anything different until they are the top of Field is wrong for the following reason. Eric is a well respected Cue Maker who has earned a name for himself, no one said he had to try this, no one said it was better then what he is doing, so why the negative posts. Maybe like I have said he is trying to keep this information quite, for some reason I have no clue, but why else speak out against something you have never done. Then to call people ignorant for trying to improve the excepted current standards, and to say that some one can not possible find a new way until they have achieved success by current standards if walking through life blind.

This is not about me Joey, I am very secure where I am, however, I think most forum members who know me, also know that I will not bow like some others will to anyones superior intellect unless it makes sense. I only know one way to do anything I do and that is follow through with what I say and to do what I think is right, I learned to stand up long ago. :smile:

 

[manwon]

Looks like I missed another adventure, Did anyone find my marbles. :grin:

I think I saw one rolling through a peice of phenolic tubing that I was using for coring. If I find it I will mail it back to you at no charge to you Michael!!:grin:

 

[rhncue]

"from the looks of this post it seems you have a hard time with reading comprehension. i never said he cursed every 3 words. i said hes become the guy that has to curse bc he cant hold a conversation. it was a similie"

Similes - comparisons that show how two things that are not alike in most ways are similar in one important way. Similes are a way to describe something. Authors use them to make their writing more interesting or entertaining.

by calling in to question my integrity along with other makers integrity just to make his point look better or bc we didnt agree is not right and has nothing to do with this debate

Integrity is consistency of actions, values, methods, measures and principles

hope this helps...

"Now you've become the guy that curses every 3 words because you can't put a legitimate thought together. You have to insult to make your point to seem better. That's about it."


Just who is it with the reading comprehension problem?

Dick

 

[manwon]

LOL. Nut hugging. Anyone that knows me knows I am not a fan or erics cues. Style wise. I like him as a person and love his posts about tone but I am a traditionalist only. I was offered a few of his cues but not my bag. I declined. Same goes for Titlist conversions with 40,000 rings up and down the cue. Noty bag either buy I repect everyones artistic perception

It's the words I'm interested in. You still haven't answered my question yet.

What's my Integrity have to do with not wanting to core wood with phenolic

Dave your integrity has nothing to do with you not wanting to core wood with Phenolic. However, it has everything to do with your statement below..

let me add i agree. i hear all this crap about thinking out of the box. its a load of crap. IMO.[/SIZE]

Do you really beleive what you said above Dave, if not what does it mean.

Thanks Dave

 

[dave sutton]

"Now you've become the guy that curses every 3 words because you can't put a legitimate thought together. You have to insult to make your point to seem better. That's about it."


Just who is it with the reading comprehension problem?

Dick

read it again and think for a fraction of a second. if you dont get it then you also:wink: :wink: :wink:

 

[JoeyInCali]

http://www.corsaircustomcues.com/pre 93 Black Beauty Cues.htm


Have fun.
It's been around for a long time.

 

[Michael Webb]

Respectfully to all, show me a group where each have an individual opinion and you get a whole lot of ways to get something done.
There is some good debating here, no matter whether you try it or not, if you understand the pro's and cons, Good knowledge.

 

[manwon]

http://www.corsaircustomcues.com/pre 93 Black Beauty Cues.htm


Have fun.
It's been around for a long time.

Joey, it in not the same thing, it is a different concept. You know well we are not talking about a solid phenolic forearm, handle or butt. Joey, your comparison is like comparing a Dinosaur egg to a Chickens egg, there both eggs right, so I guess that there is no difference between them.

Thanks Joey for clearing that up for me.!!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Joey, it in not the same thing, it is a different concept. You know well we are not talking about a solid phenolic forearm, handle or butt. Joey, your comparrison is like comparing a Dinasour egg to a Chickens egg, there both eggs right, so I guess that there is no difference between them.

Thanks Joey for clearing that up for me.!!

Ok mine.
Double black with maple core and purpleheart handle.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Shows maple core.
G10 radial pin. Threaded stag collar.
No metal in the A-joint.

Zeiler has made one with maple, purple and madagascar rosewood core as well.
I believe there's a Tad out there with paper phenolic sleeved forearm.

 

[manwon]

Shows maple core.
G10 radial pin. Threaded stag collar.
No metal in the A-joint.

Zeiler has made one with maple, purple and madagascar rosewood core as well.
I believe there's a Tad out there with paper phenolic sleeved forearm.

Joey, what does it take for you to understand we are not talking about Phenolic Sleeved. We are talking about wood sleeved over a Phenolic Tube that is wood filled, Joey we are back to the Dinosaurs and Chickens , no offense Joey but we are not talking about the same thing.

From what little I know the hit, resonance, Vibration, we feel is is transmitted around the outside of cue when the cue ball is struck. So yes a Phenolic sleeve may deaden the hit, however, I am not doing what you have done.

Thanks Joey!!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Joey, what does it take for you to understand we are not talking about Phenolic Sleeved. We are talking about wood sleeved over a Phenolic Tube that is wood filled, Joey we back to the Dinosaurs and Chickens, no offense Joey but we are not talking about the same thing.

From what little I know hit, resonance, Vibration, is transmitted around the outside of cue when the cue ball is struck. So yes a Phenolic sleeve may deaden the hit, however, I am not doing what you have done.

Thanks Joey!!

Craig try not be a smug. Don't thank me sarcastically.

Since you don't believe phenolic does not reasonate as well as wood, then a bigger piece of phenolic tube shouldn't matter.
After all that'd be like saying purpleheart pings better than maple but only if it's 3/4 od and has a 5/8 maple inside.

Vibration is not transmitted outside of the cue. It's transmitted in the center.
Put a soft dowel, you get less vibration even if the outside is hard.

Phenolic cannot accentuate maple's tone b/c phenolic has lower tone.\
Let me know how that's possible. I'm all ears.
p.s.
Have you convinced Bill Webb to contruct his cues with phenolic tube?
When you do, lemme know.

 

[manwon]

Craig try not be a smug. Don't thank me sarcastically.
You don't get the point so I'll let it rest.
Since you don't believe phenolic does not reasonate as well as wood, then a bigger piece of phenolic tube shouldn't matter.
After all that'd be like saying purpleheart pings better than maple but only if it's 3/4 od and has a 5/8 maple inside.

Vibration is not transmitted outside of the cue. It's transmitted in the center.
Put a soft dowel, you get less vibration even if the outside is hard.
p.s.
Have you convinced Bill Webb to contruct his cues with phenolic tube?
When you do, lemme know.

I am not trying to be Sarcastic, but the truth be know you have not tried what I have done and I have not tried what you have done, so our opinions will not be the same about the results. Joey, I understand where you are coming from, but no matter how you slice it we are not talking about the same thing.

No disrespect Joey intended, thanks for your thoughts.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I am not trying to be Sarcastic, but the truth be know you have not tried what I have done and I have not tried what you have done, so our opinions will not be the same about the results. Joey, I understand where you are coming from, but no matter how you slice it we are not talking about the same thing.

No disrespect Joey intended, thanks for your thoughts.

Would you like me to bandsaw a cue I did with linen phenolic sleeve in the A-JOINT?
A friend of mine owns the cue now . He does some tooling for me.
I tell you what, drill a purpleheart or bocote 5/8 in the center and turn it down to 3/4 OD, one foot long.
Bounce that nest to your linen phenolic tube.
If your linen phenolic tube pings better, you da man.

Now, if you can convince Bill Webb to use linen phenolic tube, lemme know.
After all he would want a more stable and better hitting cue,