Cored
- Thread starter seanandnik
- Start date
Titebond needs a high clamping preassure, so I see no reason why it wouldn't work great on a tapered core setup.
Back in the day hide glue was used for cue building, and those cues still hold together, so I think PU, Epoxy or even CA! all will work if done right. I did some experiments when I first got my gun drills and west epoxy worked well and I could have a much tighter fit than was the case with PU glues. When sliced in two, I saw no voids or dry spots when using epoxy.
Chris...My questions got answered during my testing period of all the different glues I tried. Tapering the hole may be one way to skin your cat but there is more than one way to get it done.
Using any poly glues in my cues would represent an inferior product and I try my best shy away from such tactics. As I mentioned previously if using poly glues in your cues floats your boat, more power to you. I certainly know what is best for me.
Like everything else in stick making, your mileage might vary.
Do some mock-ups and hammer the fkkrs, tone test then band saw them.
Btw, nobody said GG is the only poly glue out there. There weren't the first one either.
I have a delrin ring jig. Once a glue got in the delrin spacer. I had to tap it with a hammer to free it. Shocked the fkk out of me. It was very little amount.
That being said, wood glue would be my last choice as core glue. Not counting CA of course.
Do some mock-ups and hammer the fkkrs, tone test then band saw them.
Btw, nobody said GG is the only poly glue out there. There weren't the first one either.
I have a delrin ring jig. Once a glue got in the delrin spacer. I had to tap it with a hammer to free it. Shocked the fkk out of me. It was very little amount.
That being said, wood glue would be my last choice as core glue. Not counting CA of course.
The handle has to be sleeved on before the forearm because the diameter steps up for the butt sleeve. It's a one piece core from joint to butt sleeve, stepped up for the butt sleeve.
From Joss I have seen segmented handle sleeves on their wrapped cues, as well as a single piece handles sleeved on for wrap-less cues.
It seems the segmented handle under the wrap uses different woods to manipulate weight and balance. I don't know that for a fact, but it seems to make sense that it might be what they are doing.
Speaking of weight and balance, I suppose they could use a wood other than maple for that core to manipulate weight and balance. I have no idea if they have in fact done that, but they could.
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It seems the segmented handle under the wrap uses different woods to manipulate weight and balance.
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No, it's to get rid of wood scraps that are not long enough for a handle or forearm, wraps also hide crappy wood, not saying either in your case, have not seen your cue.
I should post pics of the woods I use under the wraps, it's so beautiful it could go anywhere on the cue. Tight straight grain curly maple.
Sounds like a nice thread, show the woods under the wraps. My customers get pics of the wood that will be hidden, great policy.
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No, it's to get rid of wood scraps that are not long enough for a handle or forearm, wraps also hide crappy wood, not saying either in your case, have not seen your cue.
I should post pics of the woods I use under the wraps, it's so beautiful it could go anywhere on the cue. Tight straight grain curly maple.
Sounds like a nice thread, show the woods under the wraps. My customers get pics of the wood that will be hidden, great policy.
Of course. I wasn't saying otherwise. Yes indeed they would be cut-offs and scrap pieces. Perhaps a good use for those scrap pieces. I suspect they aren't "bad wood" just not useful for any other parts because of their dimensions.
But if using those scrap pieces under the wrap I am fantasizing they could be selected based on their weight rather than any cosmetic reason.
I am not talking about my cue. I only have one modern Joss and have never seen under the wrap of mine, just others.
I agree, that's a great policy. Rarely do customers get to see what is "inside" their specific cue.
Nothing wrong with using a beautiful piece of wood under the wrap. In fact it is quite a nice touch, and more expensive of course. But I do suspect that you aren't typically turning down your best looking pieces of your most beautiful woods to use as handles under a wrap. I am not saying you don't use beautiful wood under your wraps.
As a customer, I would not really care so much how the wood under the wrap looks. How it affects the weight, balance, feel, and playing characteristics would be primary of course. If it happens to be beautiful, that would be a plus for sure.
More to the point: If you have two pieces to use for a handle, one more beautiful by far, and the other more on spec with the weight/density, resonance, etc you want, I would hope you would not pick the more beautiful piece in a cue I was buying.
Of course, if all else is equal, pick the better looking wood.
It would be great to see pics of various maker's handle woods along with some description of their reason(s) for selecting that wood for the handle in that cue.
When a maker such as yourself goes to the effort and expense to make sure that the wood you can't see is just as beautiful as any of the wood you can see I think that's in great part why one would select a maker to build a cue or why one might buy a cue made by that maker. It has greater inherent value and the evidence of the dedication of the maker is clear.
My thoughts bout the matter of the selection of the wood is, again, just a fantasy. I believe the opportunity to do that is inherent in the manner of construction of a modern Joss, but I have no idea what efforts if any they might make to use the selection of the handle wood sleeve sections to manipulate the weight or balance of the cue.
Of course, as you said, they are scrap pieces. I don't think you mean to say they are garbage pieces or "bad wood". I don't think they are. They are scrap simply by virtue of their dimensions...I would hope.
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Now you're sounding like an individual fresh out of the deep hollers of WV that has never seen one of those newfangled fancy ball moving items!
Well, you can always plug up the hole with rubber as you push the dowel stick down. Might be fun to see sleeves cracking in the process if you don't use some big fancy rubber bands.
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JC
Coos Cues
I leave the end of the sleeve closed when gun drilling and do exactly that. Sleeves do not crack but epoxy does find it's way out voids and little cracks you didn't even know were there thus stabilizing these areas. And no the pressure isn't making these cracks and voids.
JC
Here is a question? Has any one ever had a full core come loose after installed in a cue? If so what kind of glue was used. I was as negative on the poly glue as could be when guys started doing this decaades ago. I think I even wrote in my 2001 book that I was leery of it. But so far I have not seen one failure from poly glue. So the question probably should shift to which one plays the best. But then again that is all subjective unlike the question of how many have we seen come loose.
I like using a 1 piece core, Using a PU glue. 1) I like the ability to control the hit of the cue. I like the tone of the hit, I haven't had any of them seem 'dead' IMO. 2) I like the strength the butt has when done that way. I have beat both ends of a reject cue into the concrete floor over and over and the JP bent, and the butt cap and sleeve cracked....but the cue was still in one piece.
I haven't had any cues come loose, or rattle using PU glue. I use the titebond brand, it seems to have a more thinner viscosity than others, so closer tolerance can be used plus it lasts longer in the bottle than any other one I've tried. Someone mentioned hide glues and how well they have held up....not true....have redone 3 A joint cues from the hide glue era and all of them I could just unscrew the A bolt with my fingers and dust was all that was left of the hide glue. When rebuilding one of them, a Stambolini with recut points, the epoxy came oozing out from along the points when I screwed it together.
Titebond, IMO, is not good for core gluing as with tight clearance, it will seize way before you are home, unless you thin it with water....and I still had a test piece get stuck. I don't know if that is going to give the same bond once you mix it with water.
Just my thoughts, as others have stated, everyone does things differently, even when using the same products.
Dave
It won't even come off on a 3.5" butt sleeve size I tested. Chucked the sleeve and hammered it .
And I don't know how a dowel can come off when you have both ends secured .
If you tap a cored piece from the sides with a rod, it sounds just fine. No difference if you used epoxy.
I wondered what it was all over the bolt on the RichQ I've been getting ready to work on. The bolt had what looked like dust all over it, exactly as if it'd been glued into position and then over time the glue had just disintegrated. The end cap had also come completely loose, only held in place by the bolt...
Fair enough..........
Yes, one's mind must be like a book and be open for any knowledge to be exchanged.
I'll give it the same 18 years and revisit it again before making my final decision.
We'll take a few pieces when we visit you at your golden years home.