Extreme practice and dedication is necessary in becoming world class at something. It isn't sufficient; you need talent, too.
Hilarious.
Hilarious.
Corey Deuel is the new U.S. National Snooker Champion.
- Thread starter CBuck
- Start date
Really? Ok show me a person with no talent who put in "extreme" practice and dedication who did not become world class at what they were attempting. (assuming that they were not physically prevented from attaining world class proficiency)
Your argument is circular. However researchers haven't found talent among world class athletes but they have found plenty of extreme dedication, huge work ethic, and deep practice.
Watch, say the first 10 minutes, and you will understand what Americans are up against trying to break into the World Snooker tour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVVWriRdDSI
I'm just here to fuel your feelings of inadequacy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVVWriRdDSI
I'm just here to fuel your feelings of inadequacy
all due respect to SVB he has ZERO chance with that "load it up" last stroke he seems to have developed the last few years, its less than it was, but he has no shot in proper snooker with his stroke. 3C he has a good shot, but not the little balls they dont need that force.
I think any sane person watching the first 10 minutes of the video link Scaramouche posted would have to agree that natural talent is worth a great deal and cannot be discounted. They also might lose their mind listening to the music in that section. 
Pathetic Shark
Banned
Ms Barton isn't good enough to know how poorly Ms Barton plays the game.
Pathetic Shark
Banned
Actually, it is your argument that is circular. Those with a god given talent keep doing what they are good at doing, whilst those that are crap at it go do something else instead.
Well, most of them. :sorry:
Yes, that's exactly what I meant when I said he has "an extra movement in his swing that would have to be excised..." I think it even hurts him in pool sometimes.
Watch, say the first 10 minutes, and you will understand what Americans are up against trying to break into the World Snooker tour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVVWriRdDSI
I'm just here to fuel your feelings of inadequacy
Thanks for posting that video. I watched a bit of it and will watch the whole thing at some point.
I didn't realize that Hendry's first four World Championships were all by beating Jimmy White in the finals. And White made it to the finals two other times and lost. Zero for six in the finals, wow!
it does hurt in pool, a stroke with that many moving parts can cause problems. Some players get the "Yips" and can pull the trigger, destroys their game until they work it out, same in golf.
Snooker has to be learned first and from a VERY young age for anyone to be competitive at the highest levels. there is no plan for a transition from one cue sport to another
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn3EZ048XGE
This guy is in his mid thirties and has had recent success. It can be done!
This guy is in his mid thirties and has had recent success. It can be done!
Pathetic Shark
Banned
What success?
Pathetic Shark
Banned
And he's loved for it. The British love their losers far more than their winners. Steve Davis and Stephen Hendry were hated for the majority of their careers, whilst perennial choker Jimmy White was always adored.
Did Corey practice, practice, practice? Yes he did. But his stroke and imagination are freaks of nature and in the pool world he himself is a freak of nature. I watched him play 2-8 hours a day, every day, for nearly 4 years. And when you daily say "WTF?" or "thats so gross....", thats a freak of nature.
about Corey and snooker
Well i dont think the competition was that great of field,and you know what they say,you are only as good as your competition. I personally played a lot of snooker at one time,and as good as Corey plays,IMHO, he could be as good as any of those guys in England if you give him that kind of competition, cmon yall its just cues and balls on a table like we all are used to, do the European players possess some special snooker power that we arent privy to,no they dont. You dont become a good one pocket player over night either,you have to play some better competition and watch their moves and have some instruction on the right moves to make,snooker is no different. The tables are bigger yes,but the 6 x 12's i have played on the pockets seem bigger also. People like Ronnie Osullivan are just like Effren and pool, they are just magicians at the game. If you give Corey or any other pro caliber player the time on the tables with that caliber of competition they would rise to their level faster then you think. Maybe more should start playing in Europe, they come over and play our games,lets return the favor. Soon they would be tired of those US guys beating them,and would want us to go back home...lol... Actually they would love it for a while,the purses would sky rocket.
Well i dont think the competition was that great of field,and you know what they say,you are only as good as your competition. I personally played a lot of snooker at one time,and as good as Corey plays,IMHO, he could be as good as any of those guys in England if you give him that kind of competition, cmon yall its just cues and balls on a table like we all are used to, do the European players possess some special snooker power that we arent privy to,no they dont. You dont become a good one pocket player over night either,you have to play some better competition and watch their moves and have some instruction on the right moves to make,snooker is no different. The tables are bigger yes,but the 6 x 12's i have played on the pockets seem bigger also. People like Ronnie Osullivan are just like Effren and pool, they are just magicians at the game. If you give Corey or any other pro caliber player the time on the tables with that caliber of competition they would rise to their level faster then you think. Maybe more should start playing in Europe, they come over and play our games,lets return the favor. Soon they would be tired of those US guys beating them,and would want us to go back home...lol... Actually they would love it for a while,the purses would sky rocket.
I hear you and you KNOW I respect your opinion. But having said that the very thing you said, practice 2-8 hours a day is what leads to people figuring out the shots that cause them to be called freaks of nature.
I can jump balls pretty good. Better than most and good enough to get actual applause once in a while for some of the jump shots I pull off. This isn't a talent. There was a point in 1999 AFTER I had already become a decent player and had some hardware to go with it that I found myself needing to know how to use a jump cue.
At my shop in Ilshofen Germany I started to practice with it and I flat sucked. It took me a good week to be able to keep the cue ball on the table. Nevertheless I kept practicing and also thinking about it. By the time we were set to leave for the show I had a decent routine worked out that I could hit pretty consistently to demonstrate the capability of the cue.
And I continued to challenge myself until there was almost nothing I couldn't do with a jump shot.
People actually told me I was talented because of it. I always said no I had to work on all these shots and figure them out. I developed methods to calculate the angles and worked out how much to choke up on the cue to increase or decrease power.
Later I taught all this to anyone who wanted to learn it. Point being that dedication and deep practice leads to insights and abilities that others don't acquire.
I think some people DO have more aptitude for things than other people do. Of course they do. Some people are attracted to numbers, to dancing, singing etc...and if they pursue it then they usually develop into getting pretty good at those things.
Is that talent? I don't know maybe. Our brains are more powerful than all the computers in the world in some ways. So who knows what we are really capable of. Corey is a beast I agree, but I honestly believe anyone who would have been around you and put in the same amount of dedication coupled with curiosity would have impressed you as much as well.
This thread seems to be morphing into a definition of talent now. In addition the COrey argument seemed to be two fold:
1) COuld he have made it if he started playing snooker when he was young, I think most people agree that of course he could.
2) Could he make it if he went over now at the age of 35, is there anyone still of the opinion that he could despite the numerous explanations and stats that show he couldn't?
Just curious
1) COuld he have made it if he started playing snooker when he was young, I think most people agree that of course he could.
2) Could he make it if he went over now at the age of 35, is there anyone still of the opinion that he could despite the numerous explanations and stats that show he couldn't?
Just curious
This thread seems to be morphing into a definition of talent now. In addition the COrey argument seemed to be two fold:
1) COuld he have made it if he started playing snooker when he was young, I think most people agree that of course he could.
2) Could he make it if he went over now at the age of 35, is there anyone still of the opinion that he could despite the numerous explanations and stats that show he couldn't?
Just curious
1. I agree with Steve Davis that a pool champion would most likely be a snooker champion if started out early with snooker.
2. I think it would be really hard to excel in snooker after 30 because the brain does not form myelin as well as we get older and societal pressures as an adult hinder learning. However I do sincerely believe in my heart that any top pool player if given a solid year or two of deeply immersive snooker training would emerge as one of the top 100 snooker players in the world. I would consider that a professional success IF one could make it to the top 100.
Corey has NO CHANCE doing it as a part time activity. Maybe no chance as a full time one either.
Regarding your earlier comment about Hendry retiring and so on, with any activity it gets tougher each year to be motivated for it. It's not just the eyesight, it's the desire. Once you have reached the pinnacle then there is no where else to go. It becomes a drudgery to go to event after event year after year and you simply don't want the pressure of being the one expected to win all the time.
I can agree that age slows some people down but at snooker or pool if there is no physical handicap then I think it's lack of desire and motivation more than anything else that leads to poorer performances.
Look at Efren winning so many championships after 40.
From Wikipedia:
The 2012 Betfred.com World Snooker Championship professional ranking snooker tournament took place from 21 April to 7 May 2012 at the Crucible Theatre in Sheffield, England. It was the 75th edition of the event,[1] and the last ranking event of the 2011/2012 season.[2]
Ronnie O'Sullivan won his fourth world title by defeating Ali Carter 18–11 in the final. John Higgins, the defending champion,[3] lost 4–13 to Stephen Hendry in the second round.[4] Aged 36, and just 55 days older than Dennis Taylor when winning the title in 1985, O'Sullivan became the oldest world champion since 45-year-old Ray Reardon in 1978.[5]
On the opening day of the televised stage Hendry made the 88th official maximum break, his third at the Crucible and the 11th of his career.[6] He announced his retirement from professional snooker following his loss to Stephen Maguire in the quarter-finals.[7]
Stephen Hendry made a maximum, his 88th. Ray Reardon won his last championship at 45 and now Ronnie has won at 36 and again at 37.
I see no reason why top snooker players can't stay at the top well beyond 40 if they are fit and still desire to play.