Corey soft breaking in 10 ball...

i just had to make this one last point.

what if a player just plain HATES scratching. playing 10 ball people cant run out quite as prominently as 9 ball, so this player breaks soft for the purpose of not scratching. are we going to take that discretionary right away from him??? that would be hideously wrong.
 
branpureza said:
As far a I know, the rules say that the ball must be racked in "random order"... arranging each ball the same way every time isn't random at all. I've seen Corey run rack after rack the exact same way... every ball in the same pocket, and after the break you couldn't tell one rack from another... they were virtually the same layout every time. Pretty awesome when they have to change the rules of the game because someone gets too good at it.
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a lot of corey praise here, and he does deserve it. but it think, considering what's at stake for most of these other guys and how much time they spend around pool..... that in fact other players are falling behind. what i mean is corey isnt a genius or anything, other players are just stupid, lazy, prideful or who knows what else. i mean this racking stuff is not rocket science, all top players should have this stuff totally thought out and wired, but they don't.... go figure.
 
enzo said:
a lot of corey praise here, and he does deserve it. but it think, considering what's at stake for most of these other guys and how much time they spend around pool..... that in fact other players are falling behind. what i mean is corey isnt a genius or anything, other players are just stupid, lazy, prideful or who knows what else. i mean this racking stuff is not rocket science, all top players should have this stuff totally thought out and wired, but they don't.... go figure.
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Enzo

I see that we are in complete agreement.

As a player, I see it like this -

If I am playing 14.1 -

and I am playing for the same break ball every time

and I am contacting the stack in the same spot, the same way

every time

getting basically the same result

over and over and over...

What's the difference? It shouldn't matter in 10, ball, 9 ball - as long as Corey is making a legal break - there's nothing I (or anybody else) can do about it. We can just sit in the chair and hope that things stop going his way.

That is how I view this soft breaking VS hard breaking issue. The table elements change as the match progresses, and somehow Corey is able adapt to it - instantly.

If I play Corey and he ...
soft breaks-
safety breaks -
runs out -
locks me up every chance he gets -
keeps my ass in the chair....
THAT'S HIS JOB.

He does his job better than most. He's a great champion and innovator - IMO, he is still a major threat to win every event he enters.

I wish more players would view dealing with this soft break issue as a challenge during their matches. Play around with the soft break - experiment with it - and eventually you will see why everybody keeps it in their bag of tricks when the conditions demand its use.
 
I gotta agree with Blackjack... the soft break and pattern racking is fair. Corey desevers credit for discovering this. Others could have tried to figure it out as well but didn't. It's fair.

No one seems to be complaining about the pattern racking in the race to 100. Shane and Corey both racked the balls in the same order almost everytime. Occasionally they would switch the order to try a different pattern, but then they would stiock to that one for a while. No one complained about that though because they were hitting them harder.

Shane had a very similar pattern almost everytime he got to the table in that match. They were both making the 2nd ball on the right side of the pack into the side pocket, shane was doing it more consistantly though.
 
I will be the first to admit that I hate watching matches where the players are soft breaking. Its like going to Wimbeldon and watching the players serve underhanded, but it is a legal break and the bottom line is to win. JMO.

Southpaw
 
FYI, I never accused Corey of cheating or "breaking the rules". He played within the rules of that tournament, as best I can tell. He just found a loophole.

Thing is, Corey's an amazing player - I wouldn't think he'd need to look for such loopholes to win. But, what do I know...?

And also FYI, as I didn't see it mentioned - the Pink Pony is a strip club here in the Atlanta area. Been around forever. One of my best experiences there was when I wasn't even there - it was being told by some friends of mine that they ran across one of my ex-g/fs up on stage one night, and she said "Don't tell Scott!" Of course, they did. :D
 
That's What I'm Known For.... My THINKING

I think that the cueball should be rolled down a small ramp from the side rail and just inside the kitchen. The breaker has to shoot the cueball while it's rolling and BEFORE it hits the other side of the table, or it's a foul.
THAT will stop this foolishness of practicing predictable breaks.... imo
Doug






.
 
in FL in the finals against Engert at the Predator CHampionships 2 years ago he did that same break and won many matches except he lost to Engert in the finals.
the next year they made a rule saying you had to break hard or u lose the game.
There were no soft breaks after that!
 
allprobilliards said:
the next year they made a rule saying you had to break hard or u lose the game.
There were no soft breaks after that!
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Ouch, that's a pretty extreme punishment for a soft break.

What requirements had to be met for a break to be considered hard?
 
Prince of Pool to Lawyer of Pool

This guy finds every loophole there could possibly be. He pushes the rules to the full extent. Want me to break and get 3balls past the side? I'll figure it out. Want to change to 10ball? I'll get that one too.

I mean on the one hand its boring. On the other its pretty cunning. (personally i think you should break hard but i have an appreciation for cleverness)

I bet corey sits back and laughs in his head when ppl complain and says his soft break sucks. He probably thinks that hard breakers are nothing more than bangers, wanting to duke it out and go offense only.

Well lets look at all the other games. Straight pool has different kinds of breaks but everyone uses the same one and the same goes for one pocket. Both of those games have only a few different types of breaks and everyone uses them.

I dont hear anyone complaining in those games? why should 10ball be any different. If the guy gets to use his defensive break then you just have to "out move" the guy. Not easy against corey but im sure can be done.

But seriously 9ball 10ball are games that ppl want to see on TV and if we cant keep it exciting then ppl will never catch on. I say everyone breaks from the SPOT and the balls be racked at random.

If corey figures this one out... THEN SO HELP ME... Im gonnaaA...
 
JAM said:
I think a tight rack is the way it is supposed to be, at least I had thought so.

For a player to manipulate the rack with cracks in it, to help him break balls better, is no different than playing poker with a marked deck. There are players today who rack their own balls and cheat. People look the other way and say it is the opponent's duty to ask for a re-rack. Otherwise, in their view, the rigged rack is fair. I disagree.

Personally, I think neither player -- the breaker or the racker -- should rack the balls.

I believe there should be NEUTRAL rackers. Then the rack riggers wouldn't be able to cheat.

Rack rigging is quite different than breaking strategies that Corey has employed. Breaking strategies are to be commended, kind of like a good stroke in golf. Rack riggers, on the other hand, are cheaters. Yet, this seems to be pool's dirty little secret, and everybody looks the other way as if it is not happening.

The only way to cure it is to have NEUTRAL rackers.

JAM
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You have no idea what ur talking about, just like i wouldn't know about the army.
 
ScottW said:
FYI, I never accused Corey of cheating or "breaking the rules". He played within the rules of that tournament, as best I can tell. He just found a loophole.

Thing is, Corey's an amazing player - I wouldn't think he'd need to look for such loopholes to win. But, what do I know...?
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This Corey needing to find a loophole to win or have an advantage is completely off the air..... I had a front row seat watching him on a daily basis from 93 or 94 until 2002 when he moved to FLA. During that period I seen him fransform into the best player in the world. IMO, from 2000-2002 Corey played the game at the highest level the game has ever been played to date. It was during the 1998-2000 period that he developed and mastered the soft break. Want to know why he developed the soft break??? Because he had mastered every aspect of the game and he went pioneering for new things that had not been done. There was no devious plan to circumvent the rules or get into peoples heads, he was just bored with pool as the world knew it and the creative genius in him knew there were new directions to take it.... Best way I can relate it is "he is Tiger Woods of pool". Tiger did the same thing with golf, he got bored with the fundamentals and recreated himself, as well as the game.

Psychological warfare does play into the soft break. But psychological warfare is still warfare, right??? Remember back in 2000-2002 when Corey started using the soft break and was winning pretty much every tournament he went to, much the same as SVB is doing right now? The thing that was so impressive about his run then was that when arriving at almost every tournament he went to he found out that the tournament officials (who were prompted by a few top pros) had changed to rules regarding the rack and/or break. Eg: 3 balls had to get to the rail, 4 balls had to get to the rail, rack with the 9 on the spot (instead of the 1), the list does on.... Corey is such a creative genius that he figured out on a day or two notice how to adapt his soft break to accomodate the "new" rules and win most of those tournaments... Kind of reminds of course designers "Tiger-proofing" golf courses.

One good Corey psychological warfare story before I go back to working for living.... Corey was 17-18 on the road in Atlanta. He matched up with Mark Gregory with Mark giving him the last two. At the time, Mark probably had a little of the best of it playing even and Corey probably had the best of it getting the last two. Corey was racking the balls the first game and Mark, just to verify the spot said, "I'm giving you the last two, right?". A light bulb kicked on in Coreys head and he said, "No, I'm giving YOU the last two!". Corey won and IIRC, he won in under an hour....

Saw
 
donny mills said:
You have no idea what ur talking about, just like i wouldn't know about the army.
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Eh.....I am assuming if I play you in any of the tourneys in Florida, I better check your racks REAL good??? Heh heh....

Russ
 
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