Coring Forearms

[Sheldon]

Sheldon, have you ever come across any problem regarding coring? How long have you been doing it, if you don't mind me asking? How do you keep the unstable wood from moving even with a core?

I have been coring cues for about 2 years. The only real problem I have come across is cutting the core a little too tight and having the piece break as I tried to force it in.
My gundrill is ground .753 and I cut the cores just a hair under .750.

As to the wood "moving" with the core, I really don't think that is much of an issue since the core makes up most of the mass, and my cores are always made of the most stable wood I can use. Either very straight-grained woods, or laminated woods, and are not going anywhere.

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

You can add to that list Scruggs who told me personally "We are building the best cues we have ever built because of the coring". This was a few years ago and enough cues are out there to tell us if there are problems and it seems if you do it right they will be fine. I remember when Fiberglass boats were becoming popular many builders knocked them. They said they would crack, break up, not last, you could not build a 50 foot fiberglass boat and so on. Unfortunately most of those wood boat builders who said all that are out of business. That is not to say the cored cues are the future of cue building but it has it's place and most cue makers should at least have a working knowledge of it. But having said that it is the prerogative of all cue makers to build cues their own way based on their own philosophies while remaining open minded to new things.

I have heard it many many times "We are building the best cues we have ever built because of the coring" but nobody has EVER said why they are the best cues.

 

[hadjcues]

I have been coring cues for about 2 years. The only real problem I have come across is cutting the core a little too tight and having the piece break as I tried to force it in.
My gundrill is ground .753 and I cut the cores just a hair under .750.

As to the wood "moving" with the core, I really don't think that is much of an issue since the core makes up most of the mass, and my cores are always made of the most stable wood I can use. Either very straight-grained woods, or laminated woods, and are not going anywhere.

Sheldon,

I haven't used a gundrill yet. Does the hole still need to be trued up by a loooong boring bar? How long does the process take for coring out a front and ideal speed/feed rate for it?

Right after coring, do you immediately stuff the front with a dowel, glued up?
I know the front would still be havin' some kind of heat in it... would it change if you let the piece cool down first?

Is .750 optimal for the hole diameter? Any difference in hit if it was cored to .625?

Thanks,

hadj

 

[JoeyInCali]

I recently cored a cocobolo front with a purpleheart dowel... wonder how it would hit...

Hadj

I have one with maple sleeve and purple center. It hits fine but purpleheart pings a ton .

 

[JoeyInCali]

Two dowels with the same material? What is the advantage?

I do not know any cue maker using this method, is that something they have been doing for a long time? How do they hit?

Thank you.

One maker has been doing it for a long time as the x-ray I saw was 90's cue.
His cues are famous for their hit. I don't think he even makes cues now under $1200. Can't argue with his success.

 

[hadjcues]

I have one with maple sleeve and purple center. It hits fine but purpleheart pings a ton .

Would prolly play with earplugs
Maybe the coco would make it sound pheeeeeiiing

 

[Jon]

How do you know that it is glued properly? It seems to me that when you push the dowell in you push the glue out.

How do you know whether or not a butt sleeve is glued properly?
It's the same principle.

 

[Sheldon]

I haven't used a gundrill yet. Does the hole still need to be trued up by a loooong boring bar? How long does the process take for coring out a front and ideal speed/feed rate for it?

You bore a starting hole, then center up your gundrill and put your lathe on a very slow speed with a very slow feed. It takes about 5-10 minutes to core 14", depending on the material. Maple and other lighter woods i crank the feed up a little on, ebony and harder woods like that, you want to cut very slowly, or heat builds up.

Right after coring, do you immediately stuff the front with a dowel, glued up?
I know the front would still be havin' some kind of heat in it... would it change if you let the piece cool down first?
Is .750 optimal for the hole diameter? Any difference in hit if it was cored to .625?

I do like to have the core ready to go, and usually glue it up right after coring. I don't generate enough heat with the gundrill to really worry about. I do worry about it moving slightly over time though, and would not want to let the cored piece rest for long.

The next gundrill I get will be ground .755 or even slightly bigger. The reason being, lots of your tenons want to be .750 since that is a common size for trim rings, buttcap material, etc. If your core is slightly oversized, it will allow you some room to clean it up later, and still get a nice tight fit.

 

[Pancerny]

I know that some cuemakers that core their forearms grind a thread around the length of the core which gives the glue a spot to sit. I don't like the concept of coring myself. My take on it is that the core material itself is not as good as nice solid wood. I'm sure many of you have noticed that Predator shafts sand down much more quickly than a solid wood shaft, I've found the same thing with the flat laminated materials which seem to be the core of choice. Something happens when that material is made that makes it very soft. Maybe that's what these cuemakers like that have mentioned that they are now making the best hitting cues ever since they started coring out the forearms....they have a softer hit I bet!! I also don't like the fact that the piece around the core is only about .100 thick at the joint end. I've seen a cored cue where the outer piece split before the cue was done and the cuemaker had to scrap the whole thing. That a lot of work and money down the toilet....whoooosh!!!! That wood around the core wants to move once it's been cut...talk about stressing your wood!!! We spend years aging our woods and taking small cuts on them to reduce the stress...then you drill a 3/4" hole through the middle of it...yikes!!!!
I'd rather not take the added chance that there is something wrong internally with the cored forearm that I can't see...personally I plan on sticking with solid wood forearms for now.
Mike

 

[Sheldon]

I also don't like the fact that the piece around the core is only about .100 thick at the joint end. I've seen a cored cue where the outer piece split before the cue was done and the cuemaker had to scrap the whole thing.

If glued well, it will be STRONGER and less likely to split than uncored wood.
I also do my coring very early on, when the wood is still around 1.5" in diameter.

We spend years aging our woods and taking small cuts on them to reduce the stress...then you drill a 3/4" hole through the middle of it...yikes!!!!

This is exactly why the core should be put in without much delay. Once it is there, the hole is sealed up and the wood is stronger than before.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I also don't like the fact that the piece around the core is only about .100 thick at the joint end. I've seen a cored cue where the outer piece split before the cue was done and the cuemaker had to scrap the whole thing.

I used to think that but those multiply-ply shafts are even thinner.
Take a 17-ply shaft which is around .500" at the ferrule end.
They are so thin, they should split. But, they don't.

 

[pbat2751]

I'm not a cue-maker, but I did stay at a Red Roof Inn last night..

If you do a quick search of the forum you yield some interesting results for this topic.

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=6999&highlight=coring
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=3342&highlight=coring
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=3746&highlight=coring


Remember Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors for a reason people......

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

Coring forearms

I have been coring cues for about 2 years. The only real problem I have come across is cutting the core a little too tight and having the piece break as I tried to force it in.
My gundrill is ground .753 and I cut the cores just a hair under .750.

As to the wood "moving" with the core, I really don't think that is much of an issue since the core makes up most of the mass, and my cores are always made of the most stable wood I can use. Either very straight-grained woods, or laminated woods, and are not going anywhere.

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread,but here goes. I too have been coring SOME of my forearms, for about 2 years. BUT I do mine a little differently. I bore a 3/4" diameter -6" long hole, in the big end of the forearm & a 5/8" diameter hole - 3" long hole, in the joint end. It's worked great for me...JER

 

[JoeyInCali]

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread,but here goes. I too have been coring SOME of my forearms, for about 2 years. BUT I do mine a little differently. I bore a 3/4" diameter -6" long hole, in the big end of the forearm & a 5/8" diameter hole - 3" long hole, in the joint end. It's worked great for me...JER

Amen to that.

 

[Cue Crazy]

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread,but here goes. I too have been coring SOME of my forearms, for about 2 years. BUT I do mine a little differently. I bore a 3/4" diameter -6" long hole, in the big end of the forearm & a 5/8" diameter hole - 3" long hole, in the joint end. It's worked great for me...JER

Sounds like something could be done with a boring bar possibly, and seems alot safer to do. I would rather bore then drill, because most bits have a way of wondering around the longer they get without proper support to stabilize them. Ofcoarse the kind of drill sheldon mentioned looks like a boring bar, and sure would remove chips well.

I assume you are doing this to reduce weight. How much you figure you can shed with a ebony or coco forearm for instance?

My whole interest in trying It, is to reduce some weight for balance with less hardware to achieve It. I am not ready to get into the less stable stuff yet, except on butt sleeves where a repair would be easy if needed by some chance. G

 

[Sheldon]

Sounds like something could be done with a boring bar possibly, and seems alot safer to do. I would rather bore then drill, because most bits have a way of wondering around the longer they get without proper support to stabilize them. Ofcoarse the kind of drill sheldon mentioned looks like a boring bar, and sure would remove chips well.

I assume you are doing this to reduce weight. How much you figure you can shed with a ebony or coco forearm for instance?

My whole interest in trying It, is to reduce some weight for balance with less hardware to achieve It. I am not ready to get into the less stable stuff yet, except on butt sleeves where a repair would be easy if needed by some chance. G

The gundrill has an airhole all the way through it, and blows the chips out as it makes them. The accuracy of the thing is pretty amazing. The one I have will bore such a nice hole you would think it was laser-cut.

If you build 2 ebony cues, one cored with maple or birch ply, the other not cored, you can expect the cored one to be as much as 2 ounces lighter.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer NOT to core cues, but in some cases I feel it is necessary, and the right thing to do. Coring is simply another tool and creates opportunities that may not otherwise exist.

 

[Cue Crazy]

QUOTE=Sheldon]The gundrill has an airhole all the way through it, and blows the chips out as it makes them. The accuracy of the thing is pretty amazing. The one I have will bore such a nice hole you would think it was laser-cut.

I had a chance to pick some up in a lot cheap, but they were used, and just did not look like they had enough relief. The picture of the one you showed looks like a good one. If you don't mind me asking are you boring on a lathe, or one of those boring machines?

If you build 2 ebony cues, one cored with maple or birch ply, the other not cored, you can expect the cored one to be as much as 2 ounces lighter.

2 ounces would give me alot of room to work with.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer NOT to core cues, but in some cases I feel it is necessary, and the right thing to do. Coring is simply another tool and creates opportunities that may not otherwise exist.[/QUOTE]

You know my feeling, I aggree with you, It's not something I prefer to do at all, but without It you are pretty limited on design. The balance is as important as the hit IMO, not to mention, with the Cues I have dealt in, seems like only 1 out of 10 buyers likes the heavy cues, but want the heavy woods in the forearms. How much metal, or heavy material would It take in the back of the cue to account for the shaft and a super heavy forearm and It's got to be balanced Anyway I have no dought that It can be done in a sound way, that's why I'm open to It, and very willing to hear what guys like yourself that's done It, and willing to share have to say about It. Keep em coming. Greg

 

[Sheldon]

If you don't mind me asking are you boring on a lathe, or one of those boring machines?

I use my lathe. Chuck the wood up, bore your starter hole, center up the drill, plug in the air, and let 'er rip.

How much metal, or heavy material would It take in the back of the cue to account for the shaft and a super heavy forearm and It's got to be balanced Anyway I have no dought that It can be done in a sound way, that's why I'm open to It, and very willing to hear what guys like yourself that's done It, and willing to share have to say about It. Keep em coming. Greg

This is where a radial pin is nice. You can vary the weight about an ounce by using different pins. I almost always use brass or stainless if the forearm is light. If it is heavy, I go with aluminum or titanium.

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

I know that some cuemakers that core their forearms grind a thread around the length of the core which gives the glue a spot to sit. I don't like the concept of coring myself. My take on it is that the core material itself is not as good as nice solid wood. I'm sure many of you have noticed that Predator shafts sand down much more quickly than a solid wood shaft, I've found the same thing with the flat laminated materials which seem to be the core of choice. Something happens when that material is made that makes it very soft. Maybe that's what these cuemakers like that have mentioned that they are now making the best hitting cues ever since they started coring out the forearms....they have a softer hit I bet!! I also don't like the fact that the piece around the core is only about .100 thick at the joint end. I've seen a cored cue where the outer piece split before the cue was done and the cuemaker had to scrap the whole thing. That a lot of work and money down the toilet....whoooosh!!!! That wood around the core wants to move once it's been cut...talk about stressing your wood!!! We spend years aging our woods and taking small cuts on them to reduce the stress...then you drill a 3/4" hole through the middle of it...yikes!!!!
I'd rather not take the added chance that there is something wrong internally with the cored forearm that I can't see...personally I plan on sticking with solid wood forearms for now.
Mike

I have not seen any of your cues but from what I read I bet they are great cues.

 

[merylane]

I would like to know why so many cuemakers today are into coring the forearms. This is a new concept and I have yet to have any cuemaker explain its reason to my satisfaction. It seems to me that if the wood is not suitable to be used in a cue, coring it would make no difference.

In my opinion coring a forearm just adds a "whole bag of worms" and causes more problems than it solves. Convence me otherwise please.

i would love to reply some answers for you, but since we have not been properly introduced.......

but it sure seems strange a cue maker who uses laminated or any other type of glued up material could ever ask this question?