Coring!

[Canadian cue]

I guess the justification for going through these extra steps depends on how important or how much relevance does the butt end of the cue have in the overall hit or feel of a cue. I believe the common thinking is the most important part of the cue as far as hit and feel is the tip, and every part behind it becomes less important as you work your way down the the cue. Myself I believe the butt of the cue is like the amplifier, I solidly constructed butt will amplify the hit coming from the tip. If you make the butt loose and full of soft foamy glue you are going to muffle that hit. So it all depends on how important these things are to you as a player. IMO

 

[Thomas Wayne]

Hi MG,

Hide glue or mucilage has been used by cue makers for hundreds of years and is well known.

[...]

There are those that will disagree for sure and that is their right to have their own opinion.

Rick

Hide glue and mucilage are two entirely different things, have different origins and very different uses, and are pretty much unrelated to each other in any way whatsoever.

And, by the way, that's FACT... not "opinion".

TW

 

[Thomas Wayne]

Unfortunately, some think all epoxies are the same. And that there's only one way to apply them.

There is a very simple way to glue a straight core into a straight bore using epoxy and guaranteeing there will be ZERO voids or "dry spots". This method is used in a different industry with 100% success rate.

Card magician Dai Vernon once said. "Most magicians stop thinking too soon." The same can be said for a lot of cuemakers, and virtually ALL "cuemakers".

TW

 

[scdiveteam]

Hide glue and mucilage are two entirely different things, have different origins and very different uses, and are pretty much unrelated to each other in any way whatsoever.

And, by the way, that's FACT... not "opinion".

TW

Thanks for that point of clarification. I thought they both were derivative of rendering animals at a glue factory! Me bad!

I did a diving job on a Dock wall at a rendering plant and it was a pretty disgusting place. They were bulldozing dead animal bones into a pit with huge grinding wheels. My hose tender lost his cookies. Not a pretty sight.

The plant manager explained a little about the glue. I guess mucilage is from plants not animals.

Rick

 

[JoeyInCali]

I guess if it's in a qmaking dvd, it's the rule. People pay for a dvd on drilling a hole and gluing a dowel?

 

[LGSM3]

So now I am going to up set some people..............

If the core is tapered and it's full length......... you must build it from the butt sleeve forward........... if there are rings between the sections ....... butt sleeve / handle...... and handle / forearm................. they will have different inside diameters..........


Each section with have to be tapered inside to fit where they fit on the dowel...........

To me this is nonsense........... and totally unnecessary..........

I will use a straight core and use GG............ when it sets up..... you can't move it with a sledge hammer............

Why put yourself through all the trouble when it is just wood working mastrubation..........

give it a rest and build pool cues

JMHO

Kim

After you build a cue with solid ivory front and back, with rotary inlays and a mile of silver and an ebony handle and have it weigh less than 24oz.....then call it ridiculous.

Usually this requires a creative design, then a creative solution such as a tapered core....Of course u don't "get it"

 

[cuebuyer4u]

So now I am going to up set some people..............

If the core is tapered and it's full length......... you must build it from the butt sleeve forward........... if there are rings between the sections ....... butt sleeve / handle...... and handle / forearm................. they will have different inside diameters..........


Each section with have to be tapered inside to fit where they fit on the dowel...........

To me this is nonsense........... and totally unnecessary..........

I will use a straight core and use GG............ when it sets up..... you can't move it with a sledge hammer............

Why put yourself through all the trouble when it is just wood working mastrubation..........

give it a rest and build pool cues

JMHO

Kim

My issue with gorrilla glue is the tolerance or lack there of. what is the ID of the hole compared to the OD of your core?

I like a really snug fit and with gorilla glue I had issues spliting the forearm from the expansion so I had to make a very sloppy fit. which if you have a pointed forearm and your core is off center depending on what size you core at it can be a real pain to get the points even. Also I hate the thought of not having concentric parts so i actually avoid coring unless its a very unstable wood or for weight.

 

[scdiveteam]

There is a very simple way to glue a straight core into a straight bore using epoxy and guaranteeing there will be ZERO voids or "dry spots". This method is used in a different industry with 100% success rate.

Card magician Dai Vernon once said. "Most magicians stop thinking too soon." The same can be said for a lot of cuemakers, and virtually ALL "cuemakers".

TW

Twisting the Aces and Thought transposed were my favorite Dai Vernon close up card routines.

IMO, Ed Marlowe ( The Cardician ) was the greatest master and I watched him table ferro schuffle new decks eight times in a row every time he opened one on his kitchen table while his wife served homemade cookies. Most impressive and great oatmeal cookies too. The eight perfect table ferro schuffle restores the deck to the original stack sequence. He could do that perfectly every time automatic without fail.

A truly great artist and the best card mechanic in the world along with Cardini IMO. I was lucky to study his magic and listen to his insights.

Great magicians are always at least one step ahead in time and cue makers should also be prepared and thinking toward the next step and the future IMO.

 

[Canadian cue]

There is a very simple way to glue a straight core into a straight bore using epoxy and guaranteeing there will be ZERO voids or "dry spots". This method is used in a different industry with 100% success rate.connects

Card magician Dai Vernon once said. "Most magicians stop thinking too soon." The same can be said for a lot of cuemakers, and virtually ALL "cuemakers".

TW

I am thinking it is related to hydrolics and glue grooves. If you cut a spiral groove the length of the core and stoped short of each end you could drill a small hole through one end until it is in line with the spiral grove. On the other end you could drill a smaller hole.Then drill a hole that connects the grove to the two holes drilled in the ends. Butter up your dowel and inside the forearm. Slide the two together then pump epoxy through the bigger hole you drilled in the end. When epoxy starts to weep out the small hole your done. The smaller hole would provide the back pressure so as you could use the hydrolic effect to fill any gaps. Am I close?

 

[Canadian cue]

...or when you drill out your forearm leave one end capped. Prep your dowel same as I described before. Butter both the dowel and inside of the forearm. Now fill the end of the forearm with epoxy. As you push the dowel in it will force epoxy through your groove and ensure you have no voids. Same princaple as threaded capped ferrules. Just a few thoughts.

 

[conetip]

My handles with the cork rings are built on a tapered carbon fibre core.
I had no trouble tapering the wood or the cork to fit. Cork does sand real easy though.
You can make a special tapered reamer, or you can make a tapered sanding tool, or you can set up a double supported boring bar and bore it on the taper. Loads of ways of getting the same result, it just depends on the time you want to take. Are you just making 1 or are you making a batch at the same to get an idea of consistency.?
There are lots of advantages to repeatability and saving time per unit at the same time.
Neil

 

[Joe Barringer]

My issue with gorrilla glue is the tolerance or lack there of. what is the ID of the hole compared to the OD of your core?

I like a really snug fit and with gorilla glue I had issues spliting the forearm from the expansion so I had to make a very sloppy fit. which if you have a pointed forearm and your core is off center depending on what size you core at it can be a real pain to get the points even. Also I hate the thought of not having concentric parts so i actually avoid coring unless its a very unstable wood or for weight.

I didn't know that you make the pointed front and then core it. I learn something almost daily here on AZ; home of many experts. Of course it's usually never correct but I do learn something.

 

[cuebuyer4u]

I didn't know that you make the pointed front and then core it. I learn something almost daily here on AZ; home of many experts. Of course it's usually never correct but I do learn something.

I have done it before, I personally dont care for coring but I believe kims main topic was on full length cores.


Regardless of coring before or after the points go in, its still mainly about the sloppy fit. I personally dont care what anyone does to make their cues thats why its "their cue" I was mainly curious what tolerances the GG community was working with?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKXJzIowlfc
watch from 5:50 on I think it represents the fit the pieces should have.

 

[whammo57]

I guess the justification for going through these extra steps depends on how important or how much relevance does the butt end of the cue have in the overall hit or feel of a cue. I believe the common thinking is the most important part of the cue as far as hit and feel is the tip, and every part behind it becomes less important as you work your way down the the cue. Myself I believe the butt of the cue is like the amplifier, I solidly constructed butt will amplify the hit coming from the tip. If you make the butt loose and full of soft foamy glue you are going to muffle that hit. So it all depends on how important these things are to you as a player. IMO

You are overthinking it............ a straight cored butt constructed with GG is solid as a rock and there is no "foamy glue" inside........ GG only foams when it is released to the atmosphere.......... I have cut them apart and the glue is solid............ GG is thick and fills the tiny gap between the core and the butt sections...............

I have a years worth of back orders because if the "hit" of my cues............ if you want some names and phone numbers of owners........ PM me

Kim....

 

[JoeyInCali]

You are overthinking it............ a straight cored butt constructed with GG is solid as a rock and there is no "foamy glue" inside........ GG only foams when it is released to the atmosphere.......... I have cut them apart and the glue is solid............ GG is thick and fills the tiny gap between the core and the butt sections...............

I have a years worth of back orders because if the "hit" of my cues............ if you want some names and phone numbers of owners........ PM me

Kim....

That settles that.

 

[Joe Barringer]

I have done it before, I personally dont care for coring but I believe kims main topic was on full length cores.


Regardless of coring before or after the points go in, its still mainly about the sloppy fit. I personally dont care what anyone does to make their cues thats why its "their cue" I was mainly curious what tolerances the GG community was working with?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKXJzIowlfc
watch from 5:50 on I think it represents the fit the pieces should have.

Coring should be done before points and not after. If you do it after, then you would have what you term a "sloppy fit" and concentricity issues. When you core first concentricity is never an issue and neither is a "sloppy fit". It's all about knowing what you're doing and perfecting technique.

 

[whammo57]

My issue with gorrilla glue is the tolerance or lack there of. what is the ID of the hole compared to the OD of your core?

I like a really snug fit and with gorilla glue I had issues spliting the forearm from the expansion so I had to make a very sloppy fit. which if you have a pointed forearm and your core is off center depending on what size you core at it can be a real pain to get the points even. Also I hate the thought of not having concentric parts so i actually avoid coring unless its a very unstable wood or for weight.

I drill with a .750 gun drill......... I turn my dowel to about .740 and then hand sand for a nice slip fit...............

I have never split any thing.......GG just does not produce that much pressure..... besides that the ends are open and any excess foams out the ends........

the core cannot be off center......... you have a center in it that you turn on...

you are just over thinking it

Kim

 

[cueman]

...or when you drill out your forearm leave one end capped. Prep your dowel same as I described before. Butter both the dowel and inside of the forearm. Now fill the end of the forearm with epoxy. As you push the dowel in it will force epoxy through your groove and ensure you have no voids. Same princaple as threaded capped ferrules. Just a few thoughts.

I tried that once and I could not get the West System epoxy to press back out the top. The pressure was huge. I did not have an arbor press tall enough to do it, but all my weight was not enough with a .010 undersized dowel.

 

[scdiveteam]

Coring should be done before points and not after. If you do it after, then you would have what you term a "sloppy fit" and concentricity issues. When you core first concentricity is never an issue and neither is a "sloppy fit". It's all about knowing what you're doing and perfecting technique.

Amen...........

 

[pfd studios]

Coring

It is little wonder that a significant number of very accomplished cuemakers choose not to post here given the responses to information that was clearly intended to enlighten readers on what I feel are important topics.

Further discussion here apparently will not change the minds of those who feel they have a better way or just want to argue just because.

For those who do not see the value of having the parent wood be uniform in thickness over a tapered core - so be it - for those who see no value in coring "period" so be it. I and many others do understand the value and mechanics involved and to those individuals I welcome their questions "off line" - my email address is clearly posted on my website.

pfd