Cost of opening a new pool room?

Mitchb2388 said:
I am currently thinking about opening a new pool room. I am just trying to get a ball park figure in how much it will cost to open an establishment like this. I am looking to have a full liquor bar with 10 9ft diamond tables. I am looking to open this place within the next year and a half and I was wondering if anyone has any other good ideas or suggestions I should take into account.
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You sound like a pretty sharp young guy. I bought my first poolroom when I was 27, and it did fine. There is a lot more to opening a successful business than just having enough money to open the doors. I could write another book on all that is involved. You are getting a lot of good advice on here. If you think you can do it for 100K, then you better budget 150K. There are always last minute changes that need to be made, and so many extras you didn't think of.

First things first, go look at some successful small poolrooms! See what makes them work. Talk to the owner! Pick his brain, find out all you can. You MUST find the right space (building) at the right price. Parking is VERY important! You will need a minimum of six months operating expenses to get your new business off the ground. PROMOTE! PROMOTE! PROMOTE! when you first open. Local advertising, especially in the college newspaper. Good signage that is highly visible. See, you forgot about that, didn't you? Pepper your neighborhood (a 3 mile radius) with flyers on doorknobs and car windshields. Put a discount coupon on the flyer.

After six months, if you've done your job, word of mouth will take over and you can cut back on advertising (you did figure advertising expenses into the budget didn't you? :)). Oh, and hire some pretty girls to work behind the counter. Yes it's true, SEX SELLS! And one other thing, DON'T get involved with your help. It will end bad! Speaking of help, you need a good computer system to keep track of ALL sales. And an in-house video system as well. Did you put that in your budget? I thought so. The in-house cameras protect you in more ways than you can imagine. Put a hidden camera over the bar and see what you discover. Ha Ha.

There's a lot more that I could tell you, but I don't want to spend the whole day on this thread. :wink:
 
jongreve said:
This is a very good guess based on ass only; the problem is that it assumes that you have already purchased the building. Like a previous poster has suggested... Double that (at least)
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I just assumed he had a place and was gonna pay rent. Most businesses do not buy the building especially at the start.
 
those gotchas

Those gotcha's can make the difference between a successful business and failing. Insurance can't be forgotten and the surprises. There will always be a few surprises. A local business just got tagged an extra $350 a month. That doesn't sound like a ton but when it gives nothing back that is $4200 a year off of the net profit.

Hu


jay helfert said:
You sound like a pretty sharp young guy. I bought my first poolroom when I was 27, and it did fine. There is a lot more to opening a successful business than just having enough money to open the doors. I could write another book on all that is involved. You are getting a lot of good advice on here. If you think you can do it for 100K, then you better budget 150K. There are always last minute changes that need to be made, and so many extras you didn't think of.

First things first, go look at some successful small poolrooms! See what makes them work. Talk to the owner! Pick his brain, find out all you can. You MUST find the right space (building) at the right price. Parking is VERY important! You will need a minimum of six months operating expenses to get your new business off the ground. PROMOTE! PROMOTE! PROMOTE! when you first open. Local advertising, especially in the college newspaper. Good signage that is highly visible. See, you forgot about that, didn't you? Pepper your neighborhood (a 3 mile radius) with flyers on doorknobs and car windshields. Put a discount coupon on the flyer.

After six months, if you've done your job, word of mouth will take over and you can cut back on advertising (you did figure advertising expenses into the budget didn't you? :)). Oh, and hire some pretty girls to work behind the counter. Yes it's true, SEX SELLS! And one other thing, DON'T get involved with your help. It will end bad! Speaking of help, you need a good computer system to keep track of ALL sales. And an in-house video system as well. Did you put that in your budget? I thought so. The in-house cameras protect you in more ways than you can imagine. Put a hidden camera over the bar and see what you discover. Ha Ha.

There's a lot more that I could tell you, but I don't want to spend the whole day on this thread. :wink:
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Thanks guys for all the feedback! Like I said I'm just 21 and trying to crunch the numbers for a pool room. I still have a long way to go but I still have another two years of college to finish before I decided to open this place. Im just on the ground floor of my business plan but with enough capital and conservative expansion I believe it can happen in todays market with so many great deals that are being offered. I was recently on Loopnet.com the world's largest commerical real estate and found some pretty impressive deals. I really don't care which state I open this place in as long as there is a demand for pool and alcohol(right market). Does anyone know which state it is cheapest to buy a liquor license? Or should I just serve beer and wine because the license is much more inexpensive?
 
Mitchb2388 said:
Thanks guys for all the feedback! Like I said I'm just 21 and trying to crunch the numbers for a pool room. I still have a long way to go but I still have another two years of college to finish before I decided to open this place. Im just on the ground floor of my business plan but with enough capital and conservative expansion I believe it can happen in todays market with so many great deals that are being offered. I was recently on Loopnet.com the world's largest commerical real estate and found some pretty impressive deals. I really don't care which state I open this place in as long as there is a demand for pool and alcohol(right market). Does anyone know which state it is cheapest to buy a liquor license? Or should I just serve beer and wine because the license is much more inexpensive?
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Unless you are a very upscale place with a liquor drinking crowd and you can get top prices for your drinks. A Liquor license is not worth the investment. This is from personal experience. You will find in a certain class of business such as a pool room that 80 to 90% of your sales will be beer and wine. I believe in some states there are no distinctions between beer and liquor licenses. I Florida though they issue beer licenses like driver licenses. You just have to meet a few simple requirements, they are unlimited. Liquor on the other hand are only updated every ten years with the census. If you want one you have to buy it from someone who has one. They can upwards of $150,000.00 for a full service.

I would not even want one in a pool room, just beer and wine. In the pool room business you are a pool room that serves alcohol. Not a bar with pool tables. Your hook in your business is the pool and that is where your focus is, not the booze. People can drink anywhere even at home. They come to your place because of the pool and the alcohol just augments that.
 
macguy said:
Unless you are a very upscale place with a liquor drinking crowd and you can get top prices for your drinks. A Liquor license is not worth the investment. This is from personal experience. You will find in a certain class of business such as a pool room that 80 to 90% of your sales will be beer and wine. I believe in some states there are no distinctions between beer and liquor licenses. I Florida though they issue beer licenses like driver licenses. You just have to meet a few simple requirements, they are unlimited. Liquor on the other hand are only updated every ten years with the census. If you want one you have to buy it from someone who has one. They can upwards of $150,000.00 for a full service.

I would not even want one in a pool room, just beer and wine. In the pool room business you are a pool room that serves alcohol. Not a bar with pool tables. Your hook in your business is the pool and that is where your focus is, not the booze. People can drink anywhere even at home. They come to your place because of the pool and the alcohol just augments that.
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Good answer here. Much less hassle involved with beer and wine. Many more rules and regulations when you sell liquor. Not to mention the cost of the license. You can pay all your bills/expenses selling beer and wine! Money from the pool tables, food sales, video games, vending machines, ATM, billiard supplies, etc. is now all your profit. This can be a healthy number if you do it right.
 
A couple of other thoughts about alcohol. You mentioned locating near a college since the rooms by your house that are near universities are always busy. I don't know the drinking age where you are but if it is 21 where you are planning to locate then I'm not sure how much the college crowd is going to help you move booze. Then you have the headaches of making sure no one under age is drinking, and your license is perpetually at risk.

Also better check in advance on the cost of liability insurance with liquor vs. beer/wine or no alcohol. There could be HUGE differences.
 
jay helfert said:
There's a lot more that I could tell you, but I don't want to spend the whole day on this thread. :wink:
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Buy Jay's book, hop in your car, drive to LA, find Jay and ask him to autograph it for you. And then pepper him with all your questions. If he gets tired of providing the free advice, then pay him for it. You really need help to get started from somebody who's been there, and who better than Jay?

No, I'm not joking. Not really. Doesn't have to be Jay, of course, but you need somebody with experience to get you started in the right direction.
 
Made $30k from playing online poker? Methinks your future lies there and not in opening up a pool room... :p
 
The idea of "doubling" your expenses is absolutely correct, and double the time it takes to do everything, including getting open.

I happen to believe liquor is a good idea, because many customers might have one person in their group that wants a mixed drink and they'll go someplace else to get it.
My sales jumped at least 20% after I obtained a liquor license.

One last thing; if you don't have the fire in the belly for something like this, don't even bother. With the price of rents nowadays and other business related expenses, you can go under quickly.

Also, be ready to diversify if you have to. I opened with about 15 TVs and now I have 50, and we have a great sports crowd. Pool has been on a downswing since the Color of Money and doesn't appear to have a silver lining right now.

If it is a life long dream of yours, like it was for me, no question, I would do it.
 
Good Point!

Excellent point Danny makes. It only takes one person that wants hard liquor to move a whole group somewhere else. The "somewhere elses" have to be carefully examined too. Who are your competition? For where you are intending to make your money now that includes bars, lounges, and nightclubs as well as other pool halls. You have to at least match the competition and you need to surpass them in some areas that are in demand or you are up a creek.

Your staff will make or break you too. Friendly staff that gives people the breakage down instead of up on the last fifteen minutes of time can mean a lot. An occasional drink or beer on the house can pay dividends but you have to make sure that they aren't just passed out to a few favorites. Find yourself a savvy manager to get started and if she has nice legs so much the better.

Sounds like you are a pretty sharp guy but after you get out of college a few years in business, any business, will give you a PhD in dealing with people! Listen to people who have already walked the paths you are taking and don't hesitate to change courses if you make a mistake. Never throw good money after bad but sounds like you already have learned that on a poker table.

Hu


Danny Kuykendal said:
The idea of "doubling" your expenses is absolutely correct, and double the time it takes to do everything, including getting open.

I happen to believe liquor is a good idea, because many customers might have one person in their group that wants a mixed drink and they'll go someplace else to get it.
My sales jumped at least 20% after I obtained a liquor license.

One last thing; if you don't have the fire in the belly for something like this, don't even bother. With the price of rents nowadays and other business related expenses, you can go under quickly.

Also, be ready to diversify if you have to. I opened with about 15 TVs and now I have 50, and we have a great sports crowd. Pool has been on a downswing since the Color of Money and doesn't appear to have a silver lining right now.

If it is a life long dream of yours, like it was for me, no question, I would do it.
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Pushout said:
I hate to put a negative spin on this, but it's not a good time in the current financial climate. .
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The filp side is that better locations, furniture, tables, kitchen equipment etc are more available, at cheaper prices from desperate sellers, and the difference between buying new or buying used should be larger than when the economy was booming, if you have the time and inclination to search out the bargains.
 
Mitchb2388 said:
Hey Jay I will make you a deal! I will buy a copy of your book if I can nitpick your brain about opening a pool room! Sound like a deal? lol
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Whatever it would cost to have Jay consult on your project would likely save you several times over in terms of time and money. ;)
 
ShootingArts said:
Excellent point Danny makes. It only takes one person that wants hard liquor to move a whole group somewhere else. The "somewhere elses" have to be carefully examined too. Who are your competition? For where you are intending to make your money now that includes bars, lounges, and nightclubs as well as other pool halls. You have to at least match the competition and you need to surpass them in some areas that are in demand or you are up a creek.

Your staff will make or break you too. Friendly staff that gives people the breakage down instead of up on the last fifteen minutes of time can mean a lot. An occasional drink or beer on the house can pay dividends but you have to make sure that they aren't just passed out to a few favorites. Find yourself a savvy manager to get started and if she has nice legs so much the better.

Sounds like you are a pretty sharp guy but after you get out of college a few years in business, any business, will give you a PhD in dealing with people! Listen to people who have already walked the paths you are taking and don't hesitate to change courses if you make a mistake. Never throw good money after bad but sounds like you already have learned that on a poker table.

Hu
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Great post! To expand on them, I would suggest when you find what you think is a good location or state, move there and tend bar or work at a pool hall and see what it's all about. In THAT particular area. What are the laws and restrictions? What's the population pattern? What are your future competitors doing wrong or right? Do you even LIKE working with the public? Especially the boozed up public? It can get very frustrating and tiring after time. Go work a bar-rush at your local Fryin Pan or IHOP for 6 months and see how much "fun" drunks can be, especially when you're sober! Not everybody is cut out for it. (I'm speaking from experience LOL)

Hell, you're young, so you have plenty of time to lay down a good foundation for your business and gain some experience in the business. AND a big risk if things don't work out. It seems that a lot of independent/small business owners go down with the ship. Their business is their life and they will invest whatever it takes. Time, money, relationship, etc. I certainly don't fault that, but to try to dig out of a bad business or financial situation when you're at your prime earning and hiring potential is very risky. Plus I think you'll have a very hard time getting a business loan for a business, especially an alcohol establishment of any kind, at such a young age. You may need to consider adding an older/established business partner like a parent or aunt or uncle. Even if it's a partnership on paper only (little or no investment or involvement).

Just my opinion, but if you're gunning for a college age crowd and thinking cheap drinks and socializing, you might want to consider just opening a bar with pool tables. Do you imagine your customers playing with bar cues off the rack or coming in with their own cues? Big difference in how your equipment will be treated and the amount of investment you need to make in tables and services and products you offer your customers and even the general layout of the space.

Editors note: I don't have any experience with pool halls in particular, but I do have business experience and in my younger years, bar and restaurant experience. These are just my opinions and suggestions, take what you will from them ;). Best of luck to you.
 
there is a guy here in tx that opened up a pool hall with two 9 footers and about eight 8 footers...now he has the 2 nines and only two 8 footers!! he took out the rest of the 8 footers to make room for poker tables cuz he has free poker tourneys every night cuz that is the heart of his business the (tourney lovin-free rollin)poker players!!!
 
Mitchb2388 said:
Hey Jay I will make you a deal! I will buy a copy of your book if I can nitpick your brain about opening a pool room! Sound like a deal? lol
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Sure, why not. PM me for a phone number. A few minutes is all I can spare most days. Evenings are best.
 
macguy said:
I would not even want one in a pool room, just beer and wine. In the pool room business you are a pool room that serves alcohol. Not a bar with pool tables. Your hook in your business is the pool and that is where your focus is, not the booze. People can drink anywhere even at home. They come to your place because of the pool and the alcohol just augments that.
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I've seen this happen, locally and recently. The owner blamed the economy but that really wasn't it, at all. He called it a pool room, an upscale one, which it wasn't, by any stretch of imagination. It was, indeed, a bar with pool tables. Plus, and I hate to say it, his experience with pool was a couple of years in league play.
 
If you are planning on moving to a college town to open the room then you need to be prepared for the city. At your age the city will frown upon you opening any business let alone a pool room with drinking.

Also many towns that have a college have bigger restrictions as to where
the underage crowd can go. So if you are going to to sell alcohol make sure that the under 21 crowd can come into your room. Many places they can not.

I used to work at and basically run a small college pool room. We did not have beer and we only had 10 tables. While know one was getting rich
the business brought in enough for the owner to make a living had she wanted to run the place.

I hate to say it but I think you will run into many many issues due to age and your finances. Property companies are going to want to see $$$ and a solid history especially if they are going to make improvments/changes to the property. Cities seem to always have issues with pool rooms opening and often is neighbors of the location that cause the issue. They also dont seem to like youth starting any business involving alcohol. You
might have additional trouble just getting a license at your age.

I would suggest looking for a room to purchase. Do you research on it and make sure you can profit if its operated properly. Down the road if you would like to open another you will have experience and a few years
under you. This will make it easier to open.
Last year I tried to purchase a college town room and ran into many issues. Its never as easy as it seems it should be.
Good luck and hopefully you can get it all worked out.
 
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