Could Pool have a Hole in one Prize or something like that?

MasterClass

MasterClass

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just like in Golf there is a Special prize for a hole in one. Or in Snooker for the 147 break.

So why not in Pool? How about a Car, an apartment or a Million dollar prize for someone who can run out straight in the finals or semi finals, or something like that.

With regulation size table and pockets, Running out all 17 racks in a finals is definitely no mean feat! First someone must play well enough to get to the finals. Then they will have to play well enough, bless with a little luck, in no way can the opponent be involve so no chance of rigging it.

Maybe the sport needs something like that to add some buzz to it. A combination of Luck, Skill and Will power to achieve such a feat. That is something worth watching.
 
Earl did it (million bucks for running ten racks), it went to the courts, took a long time to get resolved and pretty much became a fiasco.

With zero world championships possibly being held this year, I think the chances of someone giving away tons of loot for ANY pool achievement is less likely than Salma Halmek paying me to sire her next kid.

Breaking Mosconi's 526 in a 14.1 tourney would be the greatest thing in pool maybe and you'd be lucky to get people to pay a couple grand if it happened.
 
Maybe the organizers were not expecting someone to actually do it.

Maybe that is the reason why it was never done again. I suppose it is all due to poor organization.

With a prize money of 1 million dollars, I would think that they should probably be paying some insurance company to secure the prize for a smaller fee.

I did not know about the Earl case. But yup. if anyone can do it, it would be him! You need to be a little crazy to be able to do something like this.
 
the8ballrun said:
Earl Strickland did something like this for a million dollars if im not mistaken.
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IIRC earl snapped the 9 in like 5 times out of ten. If they did it, it should have to be running 10 in a row. Golden breaks dont count.


Im sure some of the old timers could chime in.
 
I'm not sure but I think with the Earl thing the insurance company balked at the feat because of the nine on the breaks and because Earl racked for himself sometimes. He got something but it's all been hush hush.
 
They should be doing high run prize money. Most racks run in 9 ball or 10 ball, high run in 14.1.

It would be great if they offered money for running out a set on your first inning. A 200 and out in 14.1 would be amazing to have on DVD.
 
dabarbr said:
I'm not sure but I think with the Earl thing the insurance company balked at the feat because of the nine on the breaks and because Earl racked for himself sometimes. He got something but it's all been hush hush.
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Jay Helfert has told the story of this before on AZB. If you can track it down it's worth reading.
 
Frank...It's not really that hush hush. It's old news...CJ went to court with the sports marketing company. They settled for $650K. CJ got his $50K back, that he paid Earl, for the first year's payment (the million was to be paid at 20 annual installments of $50K each). The $600K was split between the lawyers and Earl. Still, it's the biggest single payday, for a poolplayer, with the exception of the two big IPT prizes ($350K to Hohman, and $500K to Efren).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

dabarbr said:
I'm not sure but I think with the Earl thing the insurance company balked at the feat because of the nine on the breaks and because Earl racked for himself sometimes. He got something but it's all been hush hush.
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Scott Lee said:
Frank...It's not really that hush hush. It's old news...CJ went to court with the sports marketing company. They settled for $650K. CJ got his $50K back, that he paid Earl, for the first year's payment (the million was to be paid at 20 annual installments of $50K each). The $600K was split between the lawyers and Earl. Still, it's the biggest single payday, for a poolplayer, with the exception of the two big IPT prizes ($350K to Hohman, and $500K to Efren).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Thanks Scott, it's good to now know the rest of the story.
 
I think the IPT had a standing deal that if someone had a perfect match - win the lag, break and run out 8 times - there would be a $100k bonus. I don't think anyone ever got more than 5 or 6 racks into a perfect match.

For Earl's million-dollar run, someone wrote an article a few years ago detailing how the insurance company really didn't do their homework. The million bucks paid out for, I think 11 racks, but the matches were races to 13 or 15. This gave the shooters more chances to run the 11-pack since it could start at several points during the match.

Also, when the insurance company calculated the chances of a run this long happening, they didn't factor in that the players would change their strategy with $1M on the line. If you've run 7 racks and you're faced with a tough shot after the break in the 8th, you're going to go for it for the money instead of playing safe.

I agree with MasterClass that something like this would add excitement to tournaments. Willie's 526 is the most well-known and breaking it would bring some coverage in the mainstream press.
 
I think the hole-in-one golf gaffs are more realistic because anyone can do it (and yes I mean anyone, my Mom has played golf a sum total of once and hit a hole-in-one on the second hole).

This might actually work to generate excitement for pool if a chain of bars/restaurants began to hold something like a 7 ball break contest once a week. For say $2 per try a person could break and try to make all 7 (amazingly unlikely but possible for someone even who has never played pool). This could even be a progressive jackpot with a small percentage of the pot (like .5%) paid if someone made 5 or a slightly higher (maybe 3%) if someone made 6.

After thinking about it, I believe this really might work.
 
This happens in Beloit, WI and Rockford, IL. I was told that it was started at The Carom Room in Beloit. It is a 9 ball break and run. For their weekly tournament each entry gets a raffle ticket for a chance at the break and run pot. Each player can also buy more chances at $1 a piece.

One ticket is drawn and that player breaks a rack of 9 ball. They must make a ball on the break and then make the first shot after the break. Each ball made from that point on is worth 1/9th of the pot and they can stop at any time, but once they miss they don't win anything. The pot rolls over every week, and the most that can be won is 80% or so of the total pot (not sure on this amount.) That way if the whole rack is ran one week there will still be a small amount that can be won the next week.
 
coreyh...That's not the case at all. When CJ Wiley negotiated the agreement for his PCA Tour (Professional Cuesports Association), the deal was that ANYONE who ran 10 consecutive racks would win the million dollars (it was an insurance policy paid with annuity installments over 20 years)...even if someone did it in every tournament (IIRC, they originally had 7-8 events planned). The odds were small that it would happen. The real problem was that Earl did it on the first day of the first event. That's what scared and shocked the marketing company...and why they tried every way they could, to get out of paying.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

coreyh said:
For Earl's million-dollar run, someone wrote an article a few years ago detailing how the insurance company really didn't do their homework. The million bucks paid out for, I think 11 racks, but the matches were races to 13 or 15. This gave the shooters more chances to run the 11-pack since it could start at several points during the match.

Also, when the insurance company calculated the chances of a run this long happening, they didn't factor in that the players would change their strategy with $1M on the line. If you've run 7 racks and you're faced with a tough shot after the break in the 8th, you're going to go for it for the money instead of playing safe.
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Scott Lee said:
coreyh...That's not the case at all. When CJ Wiley negotiated the agreement for his PCA Tour (Professional Cuesports Association), the deal was that ANYONE who ran 10 consecutive racks would win the million dollars (it was an insurance policy paid with annuity installments over 20 years)...even if someone did it in every tournament (IIRC, they originally had 7-8 events planned). The odds were small that it would happen. The real problem was that Earl did it on the first day of the first event. That's what scared and shocked the marketing company...and why they tried every way they could, to get out of paying.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott, I agree with you. Earl doing it on the first day it was available made the bean counters realize that the formulas they used to calculate the policy were way off, and they figured it was cheaper to get the lawyers involved than honor the agreement for the full season.

Even though the marketing company agreed that each successful run could be paid out multiple times, there's no way the insurance company thought it was likely to pay out once. If the formulas they used calculated out to one million dollar payout during the season, the policy would have cost the PCA over a million to cover the likelihood of the payout plus expenses.

In today's pool world, if a promoter was willing to pay $5,000 for an insurance policy, what kind of accomplishment would need to be at stake for an insurance company to risk paying out $100,000? Even a 200-ball run in 14.1 would be better than 20-1 to happen over the course of a tournament.
 
One million is probably a bit over ambitious.

In Uk a legendary uk style 8 ball player called Keith Brewer runs a succesful tour now called The Oracle Supertour www.oraclesupertour.co.uk which used to be called Gangsters Tour a few years ago. For about 4 years each Gangsters Tour event included "The Rackrunner" which offered a more modest 25k pounds sterling for anyone breaking and dishing 7 consecutive racks in which they have the break (they play alternate break) from the quarter final stage onwards. These tables were of course uk style with nap cloth and tight snooker profile pockets.

The potential payout was funded by an insurance policy with the premiums (I think) paid by the Tour sponsors. There were of course various clauses attached to the insurance cover including amongst several other things verifiably undoctored video recording of each quarter, semi and final.

In about 20 events in which it applied nobody really came very close and "The Rackrunner" died with a change of sponsorship/policy.

Comparisons with pro golf would not really be realistic in any shape or form. Apart from anything else the odds against one of the players getting a hole in one in a standard PGA Tour event nowadays are actually only in the range of about 5/4 - 7/4 against, depending on the type of par 3's on the course concerned.

As a related little side note on this, In Uk there was a gang of wise guys who cleaned up on the bookies ignorance of this in the 80's. They used to travel around the country picking on smaller chains of independent bookies shops in which the managers/firms often weren't switched on to golf and had the authority to set odds themselves. They'd ask for odds against a hole in one on that week's European Tour event and would often be given ridiculously generous odds of 25/1, 33/1 and more (for what was back then more like a 2/1 or 5/2 chance. As the bookies associations got their act together with pooled information etc they were eventually caught and were charged by the police, but no convictions were ever achieved.

Sorry for the long ramble.....:smile:
 
The million dollar prize is probably more for a marketing gimick with a very small probability of success. How many pros can run 17 racks in their daily practices? How many of those can perform that feat in the heat of the finals?

The highest rack run would be a good addition to the idea.

Like in Snooker there is the highest break prize money and then the magical 147 break prize.

If done with proper regulation, referee rack, standard size table and pockets, video records. Everything officially done. The final rack before that prize would really be a climatic one!
 
The guy who ran out on the golf table at Hardtimes got a plaque or something. That's somewhat equivalent to a hole in one prize, isn't it? Although its probably far less likely than a hole in one.
 
If you want some basis for comparison here are the golf approximations involved.....

In a PGA Tour field of 132 players on a course with 4 par 3's you will have a large proportion of the world's best golfers having about (4 x 2 x 132) + (4 x 2 x 66) = 1,584 attempts at making a hole in one. By reference to past results the bookies rate the likelihood of that happening at roughly 3/2 against or if you like, they think it will happen in at least 2 out of every 3 sets of 1,584 attempts.

If you want to compare it to any particular contingency in pool perhaps someone with enough knowledge of the pool factors involved could try to place a reasonable "odds against" value for a collection of the world's very best pool players having 1,584 attempts between them at achieving it (whether it's a 10 rack run or clearing a golf table or whatever). You can then compare the odds you assess for that to the 3/2 above. My own gut feeling is that the odds against a 10 rack run in 1,584 attempts would certainly be higher but that there might not be that much difference from the hole in one odds if we are talking about something like say a 5/6/7 rack run on a table with average size pockets within 1,584 attempts.

Footnote....obviously the odds against a motley collection of some poor, some average and some very good pool players found in a run of the mill regional pool tournament in USA achieving whatever the 'run' target is in 1,584 attempts would be a lot higher than the odds against a collection of 132 of the world's best pool players achieving it within 1,584 attempts.
 
Suggestion

Have varying prize monies for the following:

1) Anyone making 8 balls or more on a break.
2) Anyone running 150 or more balls in straight pool tournament.
3) 4 consecutive 9 balls on the break in 9 ball.
4) 3 consecutive 8 balls on the break in 8 ball.
5) Anyone running 2 consecutive racks in Rotation.
6) Anyone running a 12 pack or more in 9 ball.
7) Anyone running an 8 pack or more in 8 ball.
 
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