Could Stan clarify this statement in his video

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Shoot Stevie's shots and report back with your exact results. I'd like to know where the OB is going when you are shooting them with CTE.

I'm heading out & will shoot 'Stevie's' shots. So... I just watched the videos & I found it rather interest that when the 2 shots were shot in the side pocket that the 1st. one went 'center pocket' perhaps a tidbit to his left side, but the 2nd. went off the far pocket facing from the ball, a tidbit more & it might have pointed out at that speed.

I don't really know what that means. I just found that a tidbit interesting.

Best,
Rick
 
Colin,

Are you suggesting that every shot could be made by starting with the visual that would be thick & then employing a Thinning Pivot?

If so, then one would not need to utilize a thickening pivot from an overcut position.
I'm not sure of all the recommended or required sweeps for all the angles Rick, so I'd better not make a blanket statement.
 
If you're not aligning centre to edge AND inside edge to say 'A' then you are not using CTE.

In that video Stan says "centre to edge and edge to A" numerous times.
My original explanation states exactly that... though I was trying to perceive the visual, rather than aligning, because the two lines do not intersect in any way that can be aligned to.

Have seen Gerry's video before. Thanks for the link.
 
Shoot Stevie's shots and report back with your exact results. I'd like to know where the OB is going when you are shooting them with CTE.

Okay, here is the report.

I shot the bank several times & it went long with CTE / ETB & a left thinning pivot.

Moving over parallel it went into the side pocket with CTE /ETB & a left thinning pivot.

Back to the bank shot. With CTE / ETA & a left thinning pivot the ball banks into the pocket unless drilled into the rail & then it hits short.

The straight into the side pocket can be pocketed CTE/ETA with a right thickening pivot.

The parallel shot from point to point basically does not pocket with CTE / ETA with a right thickening pivot. I shot it several times & only one went in off of hitting the near point but all others hit the rail or the point. None of them went to the far pocket facing as Stevie's did.

I was very precise & shot the shots objectively with no focus at all on the pockets. In other words I got the visual of the two lines. I placed my bridge appropriately for the 1/2 tip pivot & I made a precise pivot to center & made a focused & very purposeful straight stroke.

Are you surprised by anything or this what you expected.

I was surprised that the bank went long. From watching the video, I was prepared for the bank to go & the parallel shot to hit the rail.

Edit: In watching Stevie's video again, I noticed that he shot bridging on the rail. I did not. I placed my hand on the table up against the rail.
 
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My original explanation states exactly that... though I was trying to perceive the visual, rather than aligning, because the two lines do not intersect in any way that can be aligned to.

Have seen Gerry's video before. Thanks for the link.

Intersect? Who says the lines have to intersect?

You need to stand so that you can see both lines.

You just don't sound like you are doing it right when you are saying things like "drifting" and "swerving" and confusing pivoting and sweeping.

Do own any of the DVDs?
 
Colin, I fear you suffer the same affliction of being too technical and analytical that I did. This was difficult to overcome and probably took me 2 to 4 x as long to "get it". Now the good news for you is that you're a more advanced player fundamentally than I was when I started with all this. The bad news is, you may be ever more technical and analytical than I am. LOL

I wish I knew how to explain it better so I could help you understand it better. I think the YouTube video Stan put out with the 5 shots may help the most. He explains it best there. I think that was CTE Perception Part 2.

Try reverse engineering it. That has often worked for me when I struggled with a certain aspect or shot. Take a simple shot that is around 15 to 20 degree cut to the left. Go down on the shot as if you were going to shoot it as you normally do. When you have the cue on the aim line and the tip is at CCB, pivot the tip out 1/2 tip. Now carefully lay the cue straight down on the table. Step back with a left offset to where you're looking down the line of the cue laying on the table. You should be very close to where you should be to get the perception. If you do that, you should see approximately a 3/4 ball overlap. You should be able to see CTE and ETA. Keep in mind I said close. Due to some small errors in movement, etc., I don't expect it to be perfect. Do this with a few different shot setups, perhaps it will help to begin to see the "perception".

Once you lock in a few times, then you'll pretty much have it. Letting go of the way you think about it now will likely take some time. You're obviously a smart enough guy and good enough player that if you put in some time, you will undoubtedly get it.
 
Okay, here is the report.

I shot the bank several times & it went long with CTE / ETB & a left thinning pivot.

Moving over parallel it went into the side pocket with CTE /ETB & a left thinning pivot.

Back to the bank shot. With CTE / ETA & a left thinning pivot the ball banks into the pocket unless drilled into the rail & then it hits short.

The straight into the side pocket can be pocketed CTE/ETA with a right thickening pivot.

The parallel shot from point to point basically does not pocket with CTE / ETA with a right thickening pivot. I shot it several times & only one went in off of hitting the near point but all others hit the rail or the point. None of them went to the far pocket facing as Stevie's did.

I was very precise & shot the shots objectively with no focus at all on the pockets. In other words I got the visual of the two lines. I placed my bridge appropriately for the 1/2 tip pivot & I made a precise pivot to center & made a focused & very purposeful straight stroke.

Are you surprised by anything or this what you expected.

I was surprised that the bank went long. From watching the video, I was prepared for the bank to go & the parallel shot to hit the rail.

Edit: In watching Stevie's video again, I noticed that he shot bridging on the rail. I did not. I placed my hand on the table up against the rail.

Thanks, I'll try to replicate your results as soon as i can, busy time of year, and get back with you to talk about things.
 
Thanks, I'll try to replicate your results as soon as i can, busy time of year, and get back with you to talk about things.

So you had NO point in me shooting these shots.

You just hoped I'd see the light so to speak.

You made it seem like there was a reason you wanted to know where the ball went.

Now you back off with, 'I'll have to wait a couple of weeks as it's a busy time of year'.

Thanks for wasting my time.
 
So you had NO point in me shooting these shots.

You just hoped I'd see the light so to speak.

You made it seem like there was a reason you wanted to know where the ball went.

Now you back off with, 'I'll have to wait a couple of weeks as it's a busy time of year'.

Thanks for wasting my time.

Major overreaction!!!! Who said weeks. Just need a day or too to try to get the same results as you and try to figure out whats happening. Thought we were being civil.
 
Major overreaction!!!! Who said weeks. Just need a day or too to try to get the same results as you and try to figure out whats happening. Thought we were being civil.

Sorry,

But you asked twice & it seemed like you had a reason you wanted it done.

My bad, as the younger ones say.

I did not know you wanted me to do it as an experiment.

Just to add more info, I even went back & shot them again using Centennial balls lined up so as to have a better objective reference.
 
The sciences of geometry & physics are what they are.

I think anyone that passed basic geometry can make an appropriate determination.

If the bridge placement is the same & the the line is the same & the pivot is the same then the outcome must be the same, unless there is an outside influence that affects the outcome.

If the line is determined by objectively looking at the Center to Edge along with the Edge to the Point of A, B, or C at the same time then that puts the shooter on ONE line & One Line Only. So...if the bridge placement is placed down based on that line & at the same distance from the Cue Ball & the Pivot is the exact same, then there is only one outcome angle.

If any of that is changed for any reason then it is done so either,

1. because the shooter changed it on purpose in violation of what the objective visuals should have told him to do

2. it was done so subconsciously based on influences outside of the objective points.

3. what one calls A etc, is not a point but a range of points or the 'edge' is not an edge but a series of 'edges'

In the 5 shots video Stan made a reference to the INNER EDGE. That would imply that there is at least 3 'edges', the inner edge, the actual edge, & the outer edge.

If the points of A, B, & C also have 3 such parts of inner, actual, & outer then the system has much variation & one could say that I used CTE & ET X & then get a whole array of different angled outcomes.

But that would certainly not be what I or I think any logical rational individual would call objective because one individual's 'inner' would be different from the next individual's 'inner'.

100 or 1,000 individuals could have success with something & that something could STILL not be described properly as to what it really & actually is.

I NOT attacking anyone. I just disagree with how CTE is being 'defined' & I am pointing out the reason that I disagree & those reasons are certainly within the sciences of geometry & physics & within the definitions of the actual words used.

I guess I am going to have to paint out the in the shy hypothetical again.

Place yourself up in the big blue sky with a cue ball & an object.

Align yourself so that you see the Center of the cue ball aligned to the Edge of the object ball along with seeing the Edge of the cue ball aligned to the either one of A, B , or C. Now fall into that line with a one half tip offset to whatever side you wish. Now pivot to the center of the cue ball. Shoot the Cue Ball into the Object Ball & the Object Ball will shoot off at given angle.

Do it exactly the same again. What angle would you get? The same angle?

Do it exactly the same again. What angle would you get? The same angle?

Do it exactly the same again. What angle would you get? The same angle?

The answer is YES, YES, & YES. You would get the exact same angle.

The reason is because there are no pockets & no rails & no conscious desire or intention to get any other angle than what the OBJECTIVES of CTE & ETX with the exact same offset & exact same pivot would result in yielding.

So... If one says that they are doing the exact same thing & are getting a different result then SOMETHING THAT IS NON OBJECTIVE MUST HAVE INFLUENCED SOMETHING TO OCCUR DIFFERENTLY and....

whatever influenced the difference is NOT OBJECTIVE.

At least that is how I see it & I think anyone with an ounce of logic & rationality would see it.

AND they would not even have to know anything about geometry, nor physics, nor pool.

You either understand this or you don't. Fanatics very often overlook the shortcomings of what they are fanatic about.

Does CTE work? YES but IMO not as described.

Others say it works just as describe.

Every individual can decide for themselves & should do so.

Merry Christmas to ALL & to ALL a Good Night.

Same set up, different angle
Does CTE work? YES, AS DESCRIBED
diffAnglesFromSameAimPt.jpg
 
Same set up, different angle
Does CTE work? YES, AS DESCRIBED
View attachment 368179

I'm going to play along.

In the top graph, the center of the ghost ball is on the CTE line while in the lower graph the center of the ghost ball is centered between The CTE & the ETB lines, How & why did that happen?

ALso you have rotated the lower graph clockwise. So the 2 shots would no longer be parallel as in the 5 shot demo.

Also you are running those lines from the cue ball to the OB & that would NOT be how those line would be as seen from where the shooter would be standing. I think Stan would agree that this is NOT a valid representation of the visual system.

Your quote of me was in regards to whether or not CTE is 100% totally objective.

So...what are those two graphs supposed to be showing?
 
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This is an Alert!

It has been pointed out to me by Stan that his comment about possibly lacking the 'language intelligence' to perhaps properly explain was only in reference to the new curved line thing.

I mistakenly took him to mean in general based on his earlier affirmation that CTE is a phenomenon & thought that he was merely using the curved line thing as another example.

I was wrong. I made a mistake.

So...Please disregard the possible implication that Stan was saying that he lacks the 'language intelligence' to explain CTE in general as that is NOT what he meant.


Stan was only referring to the curved line thing.

Again my apologies for MY mistake.

I made the mistake. Please forgive me.
 
This is an Alert!

It has been pointed out to me by Stan that his comment about possibly lacking the 'language intelligence' to perhaps properly explain was only in reference to the new curved line thing.

I mistakenly took him to mean in general based on his earlier affirmation that CTE is a phenomenon & thought that he was merely using the curved line thing as another example.

I was wrong. I made a mistake.

So...Please disregard the possible implication that Stan was saying that he lacks the 'language intelligence' to explain CTE in general as that is NOT what he meant.


Stan was only referring to the curved line thing.

Again my apologies for MY mistake.

I made the mistake. Please forgive me.

ALERT..........bull---lol

Stan Shuffett
 
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