Could this be the Death of The Raffles????

Thank you for your service

manwon said:
Like I have in a previous post to your thread, it is everyones right to their opinion. In my opinion like I have said I do not understand all the drama concerning the raffles on this forum. You stated that this thread was started due to the fact that you have have the right to say what you want. I also have the same right and that is all I have done, I have not attacked you in any way.

As far putting my heart in America, I have given more than half my life to the service of this country, because I truly beleive in our way of life. So please understand that these words ("Put your heart into America or get your A$$ out of it" ) mean far more to me than, lip service.

Oh and by the way, if you want to ever post what your intentions are in this thread, other than What if, or it is my right, which I have never disputed, please do.

You also be well, and have a great night, oh and I must say I love your Avatar!!!!!!!
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Craig ,
Thank you for your years of service .It is people like you who made this country great .
No intentions on any of this. Just wondering what is to come down the road ?
I like the dog as well .It makes me laugh every time I see it.
Thanks Again
Tank
 
Well Said

junksecret said:
I feel obliged to add my $.02 to this thread since it seems it was my canceled raffle for my Gina that started it.

First, I think the raffles are a great way to put something not easily attained by many into their hands for a relatively small amount of money. I was excited at the thought of someone getting my Gina for $77.50.

Second, I think there are benefits to both buyer and seller in this format, and I know some may view these same benefits as drawbacks.

As a seller, lets assume for this example that my buyer uses PayPal to pay me and he funds his PayPal transaction with a credit card. I receive the funds in my PayPal account and ship the cue. IF (and I know it's not likely, but also far from impossible) the buyer is a slimy guy, he can contact his credit card company and dispute the charge. The credit card company will immediately charge back PayPal who will in turn take the money out of my PayPal account if it's still there, or if not, take legal action to collect it. It will then be up to me to pursue the buyer in court to collect my money. In the raffle scenario no single "slimy guy" can have such an enormous impact, just one $77.50 charge-back to deal with. Also, lets assume, like my Gina, it is used and while NEAR perfect is not perfect. The guy who pays $77.50 is SURE to be thrilled with a 99.5% cue, the guy who pays 7-8 grand, maybe less so.

The flip side, a slimy seller/raffler, again while not likely, hardly impossible. In the raffle scenario all the other "buyers" share that risk, so the buyers exposure to deceit is also reduced.

So given the above, I LIKE the raffle concept. I chose to heed my attorney's advice even though I feel the likelihood of legal repercussions to me were minuscule. We have all seen wagers offered and accepted here on AZ and I believe those to be at least as large a "red flag" as a raffle, should law enforcement choose this forum as a target. My choice was personal, not an indictment of the raffles in general. I expect to do fine selling my Gina in any format.

My opinion on a separate forum for raffles is neutral. I don't agree that they clutter the for sale/wanted forum any more than any other item for sale, they are still only a single thread. I also think they aren't "bumped" any more than any other for sale thread posted by a conscientious seller EXCEPT that the people opting for spots in the thread move them up, something not the case in a non-raffle thread. I know in the case of my Gina, I never had to resort to a "bump" since the activity kept in on the front page almost non-stop and the few questions that were asked and answered did the rest. I DO think if they were put in a separate forum they would likely get the same amount of activity, but perhaps there are ramifications for the board owners apparent condoning if there is a separate forum....I notice there is no separate forum for any other form of gambling either, which is of course what these raffles are. I think part of the reason they have done so well here on AZ is because so many of us have some "gamble" in us.

Also, as touched on in this thread, the laws vary from state to state and I suspect (but don't know) that the Monto's of the world are in great shape being outside the U.S.

Anyway, as far as I know, being a BUYER of spots in the raffles is not illegal and since *I* have a little gamble, don't be surprised to see *me* on that side of a raffle in the future.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL,

Joe
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Well said Joe.
Thanks for the input.
Like I said ,I give you a lot of credit for ending it so close to filling up.
Great cue.
Tank
 
In California stealing Avocados, or Garlic is a Felony. I can just see some poor B*****D on his first day in prison being asked what was the crime that got him there. Answer stole 5 Avacados to make Avocado Dip, and got caught GREEN HANDED.
 
dave sutton said:
let me tell you guys something. it only takes one guy to get a bug up his a$$. i was talking to a guy that came in the poker room. he had a NON PROFIT poker tourney to raise money for new little league uniforms in his home town. attending/playing was off duty cops, firemen, emt's, doctors, lawyers ect. they busted the guy raided his tourney took all the cash and he is facing serious serious charges. i think he even lost his drivers liscense

so... never say never
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I call BS on this "true" story.....
 
Maybe we need a trusted third party to hold the stick and draw the winning raffle number. This would elimanate any lottery scams. As far as being legal I think most District Attorney's have enough on their plate without worrying about a cue raffle.
 
The question is, are the rafflers personal gain worth losing the site?

These raffles are occurring quite frequently. And more than the "other"
illegal activity that goes on. Raffles are also quite easier to prove than those other activities.

What Junksecret did was not illegal, and If it was I'm sure any decent lawyer would have won that particular case, simply because he didnt profit anything. He raffled the cue for its actual value.
 
wow!
first time since about four weeks with no raffles at #1, when i come around.
seems to take action...
 
junksecret said:
I feel obliged to add my $.02 to this thread since it seems it was my canceled raffle for my Gina that started it.

First, I think the raffles are a great way to put something not easily attained by many into their hands for a relatively small amount of money. I was excited at the thought of someone getting my Gina for $77.50.

Second, I think there are benefits to both buyer and seller in this format, and I know some may view these same benefits as drawbacks.

As a seller, lets assume for this example that my buyer uses PayPal to pay me and he funds his PayPal transaction with a credit card. I receive the funds in my PayPal account and ship the cue. IF (and I know it's not likely, but also far from impossible) the buyer is a slimy guy, he can contact his credit card company and dispute the charge. The credit card company will immediately charge back PayPal who will in turn take the money out of my PayPal account if it's still there, or if not, take legal action to collect it. It will then be up to me to pursue the buyer in court to collect my money. In the raffle scenario no single "slimy guy" can have such an enormous impact, just one $77.50 charge-back to deal with. Also, lets assume, like my Gina, it is used and while NEAR perfect is not perfect. The guy who pays $77.50 is SURE to be thrilled with a 99.5% cue, the guy who pays 7-8 grand, maybe less so.

The flip side, a slimy seller/raffler, again while not likely, hardly impossible. In the raffle scenario all the other "buyers" share that risk, so the buyers exposure to deceit is also reduced.

So given the above, I LIKE the raffle concept. I chose to heed my attorney's advice even though I feel the likelihood of legal repercussions to me were minuscule. We have all seen wagers offered and accepted here on AZ and I believe those to be at least as large a "red flag" as a raffle, should law enforcement choose this forum as a target. My choice was personal, not an indictment of the raffles in general. I expect to do fine selling my Gina in any format.

My opinion on a separate forum for raffles is neutral. I don't agree that they clutter the for sale/wanted forum any more than any other item for sale, they are still only a single thread. I also think they aren't "bumped" any more than any other for sale thread posted by a conscientious seller EXCEPT that the people opting for spots in the thread move them up, something not the case in a non-raffle thread. I know in the case of my Gina, I never had to resort to a "bump" since the activity kept in on the front page almost non-stop and the few questions that were asked and answered did the rest. I DO think if they were put in a separate forum they would likely get the same amount of activity, but perhaps there are ramifications for the board owners apparent condoning if there is a separate forum....I notice there is no separate forum for any other form of gambling either, which is of course what these raffles are. I think part of the reason they have done so well here on AZ is because so many of us have some "gamble" in us.

Also, as touched on in this thread, the laws vary from state to state and I suspect (but don't know) that the Monto's of the world are in great shape being outside the U.S.

Anyway, as far as I know, being a BUYER of spots in the raffles is not illegal and since *I* have a little gamble, don't be surprised to see *me* on that side of a raffle in the future.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL,

Joe
Click to expand...

Joe,

If you're feeling guilty about squashing the action on other auctions, I'm sure you'd feel better after buying some slots in them. You do have gamble after all :p

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=101425 *wink wink*

But in all seriousness, I know it was not your intention but it seems that interest in raffles has dropped recently. Or maybe I was just a few weeks late in jumping on the wagon. I think if I had started mine a few weeks earlier it would've filled immediately. Or maybe I was too honest in admitting the cue isn't perfect. Oh well.

I feel the same way about auctions as I do many other facets of the forums. This is a place that we enjoy for free. It may not all be perfect, but ignore the parts you don't like and embrace the parts you do. Simple? Apparently not :rolleyes:
 
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quite frankly, is there really a point to trying to chime in?
All that is going to happen is they are going to just start flaming you.
I get pissed off report AZB and TAR about what goes on and the site will be shutdown.
Its not like anyone who gambles or holds these raffles care about anything but themselves. So why bother. I think it is prime example of why pool will NEVER get anywhere. but these people think they are entitled to do what they want. The only way to change these people is to actually shutdown the site.
Would this change their minds?? Probably not
Why bother?
 
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Illinois restrictions on Raffles

230 ILCS 15/2

Formerly cited as IL ST CH 85 ? 2302

West's Smith-Hurd Illinois Compiled Statutes Annotated Currentness
Chapter 230. Gaming
Act 15. Raffles Act (Refs & Annos)
15/2. Licensing



? 2. Licensing. (a) The governing body of any county or municipality within this State may establish a system for the licensing of organizations to operate raffles. The governing bodies of a county and one or more municipalities may, pursuant to a written contract, jointly establish a system for the licensing of organizations to operate raffles within any area of contiguous territory not contained within the corporate limits of a municipality which is not a party to such contract. The governing bodies of two or more adjacent counties or two or more adjacent municipalities located within a county may, pursuant to a written contract, jointly establish a system for the licensing of organizations to operate raffles within the corporate limits of such counties or municipalities. The licensing authority may establish special categories of licenses and promulgate rules relating to the various categories. The licensing system shall provide for limitations upon (1) the aggregate retail value of all prizes or merchandise awarded by a licensee in a single raffle, (2) the maximum retail value of each prize awarded by a licensee in a single raffle, (3) the maximum price which may be charged for each raffle chance issued or sold and (4) the maximum number of days during which chances may be issued or sold. The licensing system may include a fee for each license in an amount to be determined by the local governing body. Licenses issued pursuant to this Act shall be valid for one raffle or for a specified number of raffles to be conducted during a specified period not to exceed one year and may be suspended or revoked for any violation of this Act. A local governing body shall act on a license application within 30 days from the date of application. Nothing in this Act shall be construed to prohibit a county or municipality from adopting rules or ordinances for the operation of raffles that are more restrictive than provided for in this Act. The governing body of a municipality may authorize the sale of raffle chances only within the borders of the municipality. The governing body of the county may authorize the sale of raffle chances only in those areas which are both within the borders of the county and outside the borders of any municipality.


(b) Licenses shall be issued only to bona fide religious, charitable, labor, business, fraternal, educational or veterans' organizations that operate without profit to their members and which have been in existence continuously for a period of 5 years immediately before making application for a license and which have had during that entire 5 year period a bona fide membership engaged in carrying out their objects, or to a non-profit fundraising organization that the licensing authority determines is organized for the sole purpose of providing financial assistance to an identified individual or group of individuals suffering extreme financial hardship as the result of an illness, disability, accident or disaster.


For purposes of this Act, the following definitions apply. Non-profit: An organization or institution organized and conducted on a not-for-profit basis with no personal profit inuring to any one as a result of the operation. Charitable: An organization or institution organized and operated to benefit an indefinite number of the public. The service rendered to those eligible for benefits must also confer some benefit on the public. Educational: An organization or institution organized and operated to provide systematic instruction in useful branches of learning by methods common to schools and institutions of learning which compare favorably in their scope and intensity with the course of study presented in tax-supported schools. Religious: Any church, congregation, society, or organization founded for the purpose of religious worship. Fraternal: An organization of persons having a common interest, the primary interest of which is to both promote the welfare of its members and to provide assistance to the general public in such a way as to lessen the burdens of government by caring for those that otherwise would be cared for by the government. Veterans: An organization or association comprised of members of which substantially all are individuals who are veterans or spouses, widows, or widowers of veterans, the primary purpose of which is to promote the welfare of its members and to provide assistance to the general public in such a way as to confer a public benefit. Labor: An organization composed of workers organized with the objective of betterment of the conditions of those engaged in such pursuit and the development of a higher degree of efficiency in their respective occupations. Business: A voluntary organization composed of individuals and businesses who have joined together to advance the commercial, financial, industrial and civic interests of a community.
 
AngryPanda said:
quite frankly, is there really a point to trying to chime in?
All that is going to happen is they are going to just start flaming you.
I get pissed off report AZB and TAR about what goes on and the site will be shutdown.
Its not like anyone who gambles or holds these raffles care about anything but themselves. So why bother. I think it is prime example of why pool will NEVER get anywhere. but these people think they are entitled to do what they want. The only way to change these people is to actually shutdown the site.
Would this change their minds?? Probably not
Why bother?
Click to expand...


Thats my point.....Not one person has ever chimed in about the legalities of gambling on AZB, and it's been going on for awhile now....The economy is in the dump.....the cue market has been soft for some time.....so these raffles appear to be a good opportunity for both buyer, and seller....Now if all the folks that have created threads or that have chimed in about their concerns for AZB wellness.....heres your chance to do more good for the site.....go ahead and let these boys know that they are participating in illegal activity......lets be consistant here gambling is gambling....or is the real problem that raffles have hindered the opportunity for others to move cues, or are the cue buyers missing out on stealing cues??? Heres a link.....chime in boys!!! My money is nobody has the balls!!! btw I have nothing against gambling or raffles on AZB....


http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=101965
 
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