Could this be the Death of The Raffles????

emf123 said:
I was thinking that the biggest problem the government has with raffles is money, or the lack of cut they get on the sale. It's probably much easier to falsify income tax records with a raffle.

So to all the cue wheeler dealers who do raffles, how are you going to report the income from these raffles on your taxes?

Answer at your own peril:cool:

Eric

Eric, lets face it with the Internet revolution and all the sales being done around country it is up each person whether they report the income from these sales. There are certainly way too many for the government to track, just look at eBay, how many of those sellers report income for tax purposes. This is why you buy thing so cheap, people are running a business from their living room (no overhead) and they buy the things they sell at sales or from other Internet sellers (No paper trail). Is this right or wrong it can be answered either way depending upon your opinion and your sales idea's.

I own a retail billiards store in my pool hall, all my merchandise is taxed. However, I do not sell on the Internet do the amount of money sellers are will to make on products. I have seen certain individuals sell new cues here on the forum for $5 over my wholesale cost, I know they are not claiming this on their tax's. But the raffles, like I said this gives many people the chance to get something they may never be able to buy other wise, so whats wrong with it if it is honest.

Anyone with common sense knows that the money is going in some ones pocket not to charity. It is no different than selling a cue here and nothing else. The people who appear to be most disturbed by the auctions are the Flipper and the Sellers, but I think many of them may need to change their tactics.
 
legal raffles

Org. Creole said:
Nobody inforces those laws anymore unless its like a real lottery. Like powerball, florida lotto, exc. If they were enforced every school, church, and state i the U.S. would be shut down. Ever1 does raffles theses days. Its not frowned upon or anything people dont think twice about em. Hell my old Catholic middle school raffles off a car every year. This year it was a jeep but you get the point nobody cares.

Recognized charities and churches can have legal raffles. I think this is the law pretty much everywhere. Saint Jude's has raffles pretty much nationwide I believe. However, the reason we don't see a thousand times more raffles than we do is that they are generally illegal and can lead to repercussions not only for the people putting them on but for this website also. Ignorance isn't an excuse and Mike won't get far claiming he is unaware of the raffles when they are taking over a forum.

Having said that, I'll hold a running raffle for a hundred dollar bill. Every time I get fifty $5 entries I'll hold a raffle! Can anyone see why this might not be legal?? Anyone ever hear of the numbers racket? The only difference between the numbers racket and the state and multi-state lotto's is the scale. The gubment hates the little guys cutting in on their action!

Hu
 
I think as enough people get tired of sinking good money into raffles and not winning, raffles will die off. I see it happening already due to saturation. Unless you have lots of money to burn... raffles aren't a winning proposition if you keep losing.
 
Well if they make a profit off the cue in a raffle then congrats to them for doing so. No one forces anyone to click on the raffle link, so if you don't approve of them just skip to the next for sale item. I do agree raffles should be separate from the wanted/for sale section to clean up the forum a little.
 
let me tell you guys something. it only takes one guy to get a bug up his a$$. i was talking to a guy that came in the poker room. he had a NON PROFIT poker tourney to raise money for new little league uniforms in his home town. attending/playing was off duty cops, firemen, emt's, doctors, lawyers ect. they busted the guy raided his tourney took all the cash and he is facing serious serious charges. i think he even lost his drivers liscense

so... never say never
 
Purdman & Manwon - What IF.................

Purdman said:
THANKS BARNEY!
Purdman


AS you can see .....I am not the one who stated The Law .

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=101107


My post was to make you think WHAT IF??
What If he is correct?
What if it is correct for other states?
What if AZ could get in trouble?
What If the attorney who stated the penal code is just a Real Estate attorney?
What if.....................:rolleyes:

It makes no difference to me what selling practices others use.
Raffles have put some nice cues in some peoples hands ,that maybe would not be able to afford them if they had to do a purchase.
Just remember WHAT IF..........

Tank
 
what if.......there could be earthquake
what if ........there could be a tornado
what if..........some car and hits me while i am walking


there is no end to what if in life
 
Tank138 said:
AS you can see .....I am not the one who stated The Law .

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=101107


My post was to make you think WHAT IF??
What If he is correct?
What if it is correct for other states?
What if AZ could get in trouble?
What If the attorney who stated the penal code is just a Real Estate attorney?
What if.....................:rolleyes:

It makes no difference to me what selling practices others use.
Raffles have put some nice cues in some peoples hands ,that maybe would not be able to afford them if they had to do a purchase.
Just remember WHAT IF..........

Tank


It makes no difference to me what selling practices others use.
Raffles have put some nice cues in some peoples hands ,that maybe would not be able to afford them if they had to do a purchase.
Just remember WHAT IF..........


If it makes know difference to you, then why start this thread in the first place, I mean What If you never started, I mean just think about it!!!!!;) :confused: I am certain people who participate in these raffles realize all the What Ifs and if they feel uncomfortable I am certain they would not take the chance.

I know everyone has a right to their opinion, but I just do not understand all the drama about this topic. I doubt that their is anyone here who has no broken a law at some point in their life, or taken a chance that was questionable. I just think certain people are trying to draw more attention to this than is necessary, when to date no real harm has been done to anyone.

Have a good night!!
 
Rift said:
SC has laws much the same still. I think you can still beat your wife on the courthouse steps with a switch no thicker than your thumb on sunday, and any position other than missionary is illegal... Bible belt laws seem funny in retrospect

DumbLaws.com
 
My Views

Everyone has 20-40 usd in their pocket but not 2k or 3k to buy a cue they would have hoped to buy for their whole life.

And now they have a chance and that is also 1 in 42 or may be 1 in 21 for an amount they would spend on a few beers or vodka, they could own a cue for this amount.
Wont u take a chance?
As sellers some of u might not like it but think from a person who wants to own such a cue.I think it would be worth for anyone to take chance once in while.
Do u know how much gambling goes on in pool halls?have u ever tried to put a figure to it?
I think u cant.
We might have won and lost thousands of dollors in those race to 5,7 and 9's and may be more.Arent they also illegal.
I would like to ask all those people who are against raffles,havent they ever played for money on a pool table.I dont think there would be even single person who would have not.isnt that illegal too?

So guys lets us give rest to this topic.IMO it is just another creative way to sell ur product.

you can find a better way in this kind of economy u r most welcome to try it.


I would request whoever reads this not make another thread on this same topic
 
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Drama What Drama????

manwon said:
It makes no difference to me what selling practices others use.
Raffles have put some nice cues in some peoples hands ,that maybe would not be able to afford them if they had to do a purchase.
Just remember WHAT IF..........


If it makes know difference to you, then why start this thread in the first place, I mean What If you never started, I mean just think about it!!!!!;) :confused: I am certain people who participate in these raffles realize all the What Ifs and if they feel uncomfortable I am certain they would not take the chance.

I know everyone has a right to their opinion, but I just do not understand all the drama about this topic. I doubt that their is anyone here who has no broken a law at some point in their life, or taken a chance that was questionable. I just think certain people are trying to draw more attention to this than is necessary, when to date no real harm has been done to anyone.

Have a good night!!



Manwon
All I was stating was could this be the end???Also What IF....

Seeing some of the Raffles seem to be fizzling ......Along with price drops of the entry fee, & some people *****ing about what the raffle final value fee will be collected on some cues.
By The way this is the first time I have ever said anything about Raffles.Also Nothing Negative was ever stated.
I thought is was very honorable of Joe to take the advise of his attorney seeing he pays him.He must believe he is getting a good service from him.

The thread was started due to my ability to FREE Speach in this country .
"Put your heart into America or get your A$$ out of it"
Just remember the old saying ,opinions are like (well you know) ,Everyone has one.
Be Well ,
Tank
 
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hey

Tank138 said:
Manwon
All I was stating was could this be the end???Also What IF....

Seeing some of the Raffles seem to be fizzling ......Along with price drops of the entry fee, & some people *****ing about what the raffle final value fee will be collected on some cues.
By The way this is the first time I have ever said anything about Raffles.Also Nothing Negative was ever stated.
I thought is was very honorable of Joe to take the advise of his attorney seeing he pays him.He must believe he is getting a good service from him.

The thread was started due to my ability to FREE Speach in this country .
"Put your heart into America or get your A$$ out of it"
Just remember the old saying ,opinions are like (well you know) ,Everyone has one.
Be Well ,
Tank
Hey Tank,

I in no means targeted anything towards you. just pissed seeing so many anti raffle threads.I respect u a lot and u r one of the most respected people around az.
I was just sharing what i feel about raffles in general.

I apologise if in anyway i offended you
 
Tank138 said:
Manwon
All I was stating was could this be the end???Also What IF....

Seeing some of the Raffles seem to be fizzling ......Along with price drops of the entry fee, & some people *****ing about what the raffle final value fee will be collected on some cues.
By The way this is the first time I have ever said anything about Raffles.Also Nothing Negative was ever stated.
I thought is was very honorable of Joe to take the advise of his attorney seeing he pays him.He must believe he is getting a good service from him.

The thread was started due to my ability to FREE Speach in this country .
"Put your heart into America or get your A$$ out of it"
Just remember the old saying ,opinions are like (well you know) ,Everyone has one.
Be Well ,
Tank

Like I have in a previous post to your thread, it is everyones right to their opinion. In my opinion like I have said I do not understand all the drama concerning the raffles on this forum. You stated that this thread was started due to the fact that you have have the right to say what you want. I also have the same right and that is all I have done, I have not attacked you in any way.

As far putting my heart in America, I have given more than half my life to the service of this country, because I truly beleive in our way of life. So please understand that these words ("Put your heart into America or get your A$$ out of it" ) mean far more to me than, lip service.

Oh and by the way, if you want to ever post what your intentions are in this thread, other than What if, or it is my right, which I have never disputed, please do.

You also be well, and have a great night, oh and I must say I love your Avatar!!!!!!!
 
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I feel obliged to add my $.02 to this thread since it seems it was my canceled raffle for my Gina that started it.

First, I think the raffles are a great way to put something not easily attained by many into their hands for a relatively small amount of money. I was excited at the thought of someone getting my Gina for $77.50.

Second, I think there are benefits to both buyer and seller in this format, and I know some may view these same benefits as drawbacks.

As a seller, lets assume for this example that my buyer uses PayPal to pay me and he funds his PayPal transaction with a credit card. I receive the funds in my PayPal account and ship the cue. IF (and I know it's not likely, but also far from impossible) the buyer is a slimy guy, he can contact his credit card company and dispute the charge. The credit card company will immediately charge back PayPal who will in turn take the money out of my PayPal account if it's still there, or if not, take legal action to collect it. It will then be up to me to pursue the buyer in court to collect my money. In the raffle scenario no single "slimy guy" can have such an enormous impact, just one $77.50 charge-back to deal with. Also, lets assume, like my Gina, it is used and while NEAR perfect is not perfect. The guy who pays $77.50 is SURE to be thrilled with a 99.5% cue, the guy who pays 7-8 grand, maybe less so.

The flip side, a slimy seller/raffler, again while not likely, hardly impossible. In the raffle scenario all the other "buyers" share that risk, so the buyers exposure to deceit is also reduced.

So given the above, I LIKE the raffle concept. I chose to heed my attorney's advice even though I feel the likelihood of legal repercussions to me were minuscule. We have all seen wagers offered and accepted here on AZ and I believe those to be at least as large a "red flag" as a raffle, should law enforcement choose this forum as a target. My choice was personal, not an indictment of the raffles in general. I expect to do fine selling my Gina in any format.

My opinion on a separate forum for raffles is neutral. I don't agree that they clutter the for sale/wanted forum any more than any other item for sale, they are still only a single thread. I also think they aren't "bumped" any more than any other for sale thread posted by a conscientious seller EXCEPT that the people opting for spots in the thread move them up, something not the case in a non-raffle thread. I know in the case of my Gina, I never had to resort to a "bump" since the activity kept in on the front page almost non-stop and the few questions that were asked and answered did the rest. I DO think if they were put in a separate forum they would likely get the same amount of activity, but perhaps there are ramifications for the board owners apparent condoning if there is a separate forum....I notice there is no separate forum for any other form of gambling either, which is of course what these raffles are. I think part of the reason they have done so well here on AZ is because so many of us have some "gamble" in us.

Also, as touched on in this thread, the laws vary from state to state and I suspect (but don't know) that the Monto's of the world are in great shape being outside the U.S.

Anyway, as far as I know, being a BUYER of spots in the raffles is not illegal and since *I* have a little gamble, don't be surprised to see *me* on that side of a raffle in the future.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL,

Joe
 
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junksecret said:
I feel obliged to add my $.02 to this thread since it seems it was my canceled raffle for my Gina that started it.

First, I think the raffles are a great way to put something not easily attained by many into their hands for a relatively small amount of money. I was excited at the thought of someone getting my Gina for $77.50.

Second, I think there are benefits to both buyer and seller in this format, and I know some may view these same benefits as drawbacks.

As a seller, lets assume for this example that my buyer uses PayPal to pay me and he funds his PayPal transaction with a credit card. I receive the funds in my PayPal account and ship the cue. IF (and I know it's not likely, but also far from impossible) the buyer is a slimy guy, he can contact his credit card company and dispute the charge. The credit card company will immediately charge back PayPal who will in turn take the money out of my PayPal account if it's still there, or if not, take legal action to collect it. It will then be up to me to pursue the buyer in court to collect my money. In the raffle scenario no single "slimy guy" can have such an enormous impact, just one $77.50 charge-back to deal with. Also, lets assume, like my Gina, it is used and while NEAR perfect is not perfect. The guy who pays $77.50 is SURE to be thrilled with a 99.5% cue, the guy who pays 7-8 grand, maybe less so.

The flip side, a slimy seller/raffler, again while not likely, hardly impossible. In the raffle scenario all the other "buyers" share that risk, so the buyers exposure to deceit is also reduced.

So given the above, I LIKE the raffle concept. I chose to heed my attorney's advice even though I feel the likelihood of legal repercussions to me were minuscule. We have all seen wagers offered and accepted here on AZ and I believe those to be at least as large a "red flag" as a raffle, should law enforcement choose this forum as a target. My choice was personal, not an indictment of the raffles in general. I expect to do fine selling my Gina in any format.

My opinion on a separate forum for raffles is neutral. I don't agree that they clutter the for sale/wanted forum any more than any other item for sale, they are still only a single thread. I also think they aren't "bumped" any more than any other for sale thread posted by a conscientious seller EXCEPT that the people opting for spots in the thread move them up, something not the case in a non-raffle thread. I know in the case of my Gina, I never had to resort to a "bump" since the activity kept in on the front page almost non-stop and the few questions that were asked and answered did the rest. I DO think if they were put in a separate forum they would likely get the same amount of activity, but perhaps there are ramifications for the board owners apparent condoning if there is a separate forum....I notice there is no separate forum for any other form of gambling either, which is of course what these raffles are. I think part of the reason they have done so well here on AZ is because so many of us have some "gamble" in us.

Also, as touched on in this thread, the laws vary from state to state and I suspect (but don't know) that the Monto's of the world are in great shape being outside the U.S.

Anyway, as far as I know, being a BUYER of spots in the raffles is not illegal and since *I* have a little gamble, don't be surprised to see *me* on that side of a raffle in the future.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL,

Joe

Thanks Joe for your words on this. I completely understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate you being up front with your intent in canceling the auction.

Have a good night!!!
 
Although this has been answered already, I thought I would chime in in the legality issue since I am one of the lawyers the read the forum regularly. Yes, each state will likely have its own laws governing such activities. My state, as I am sure some others do, has exemptions for recognized charitable or non-profit organizations (like schools, churches, etc). You can probably find all the rules and regulatoins in a pamphlet on each state's attorney general website. They get asked questions about the legality of raffles, bingo, etc. all the time, so they put these together in advance.

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/business/pubs/char/05charitable_bingo_brochure.pdf

Raffle info starts on page 12 of the pdf.

Tom
 
The King said:
I'm pretty sure he said it was for the State of California .... And he said it was a misdemeanor which if you ever lived in California they have some pretty strict laws ... I would guess this ranks right up there with Jaywalking ... I was raised in California some of the best years in my life it is a beautiful state with great people ... And some of the friendliest people but it also carries a large population ... And alot of laws ... you would be surprised at some of the laws written in the books years ago that are still laws but not enforced any longer as they are acceptable now in most peoples eyes even if still frowned upon ...



California has too many anti freedom laws, stupid laws, but Gay Marriage is or should I say soon be legal there. Go Figure.
faint.gif
 
No Problem

Monto P2 said:
Hey Tank,

I in no means targeted anything towards you. just pissed seeing so many anti raffle threads.I respect u a lot and u r one of the most respected people around az.
I was just sharing what i feel about raffles in general.

I apologise if in anyway i offended you


No offense taken
Thanks Monto
I am glad your raffles went well for you.
Maybe I will get in on your next one.
Tank
 
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