Could this be the Future of Pool?

[sjm]

I'm not taking a side here, but perhaps I can shed some light on this. This might be pool's future, but it's also pool's past. One upon a time, some players had to decide whether to honor certain commitments or ignore those commitments to chase more lucrative opportunities.

As noted, this issue has arisen before in pool, although the memories of how it was dealt with are pretty vague in my case. In 2006, Kevin Trudeau developed the IPT tour, an event series that consisted entirely of non-WPA sanctioned events. As many of us remember, the IPT's choice to steer clear of WPA caused some friction in the sport.

Both men's pool and women's pool had WPA sanctioned events on their schedules back in 2006, so pro pool had to deal with the contingency that players who had signed contracts with WPA sanctioned tours would violate those contracts by playing in the more lucrative IPT, perhaps even on the dates of another WPA sanctioned event.

The matter of and need for exclusive rights as they pertain to player contracts is not simple, but I'll try to offer, in oversimplified terms, the rationale. When a tour or proprietor approaches a potential venue sponsor to try to make a business deal to stage an event, its bargaining position is greatly strengthened if they can guarantee that its players under contract will not play in a competing event over the same dates. For this reason, having player contracts that enable a proprietor to make this promise was typically deemed advisable and to the advantage of all tour members.

Might a new tour emerge at some point that, like the IPT, offers greater riches than those otherwise available to pro players? Yes, it could, and the governing bodies of pool worldwide need to be ready for such a contingency.

 

[hang-the-9]

--- snip...

Might a new tour emerge at some point that, like the IPT, offers greater riches pittance than those otherwise available to pro players? Yes, it could, and the governing bodies of pool worldwide need to be ready for such a contingency.

I fixed that for you a bit I doubt anyone would call the money from pool tournaments only "riches" hehe.

 

[Dan_B]

also, what will be the games that the PGA will play on networks who broadcast the finale at POTUS "Dural" just before the midterms?

...great stuff,

market analyst have it as a shiny object that the wealth like to show how to and play the green new deal.

 

[telinoz]

No matter what sport... An organisation that thinks it deserves total loyalty is not an organisation to respect.
Players should be able to choose, simple as that.

 

[garczar]

Well Matchroom already has threatened players, and intentionally scheduled events opposite those they wished to undermine. Maybe it is not Predator they are targeting, but they sure seem to be doing some targeting -- Mark Griffin's events and Pat Fleming's also. It is an age old tactic of monopolistic pool promoters, going way back.

Pat's event is ON the Matchroom Nine calendar so how is MR going after his event??? Mark's events do not include 9ball so again, how is MR going after him too?

 

[garczar]

I'm not taking a side here, but perhaps I can shed some light on this. This might be pool's future, but it's also pool's past. One upon a time, some players had to decide whether to honor certain commitments or ignore those commitments to chase more lucrative opportunities.

As noted, this issue has arisen before in pool, although the memories of how it was dealt with are pretty vague in my case. In 2006, Kevin Trudeau developed the IPT tour, an event series that consisted entirely of non-WPA sanctioned events. As many of us remember, the IPT's choice to steer clear of WPA caused some friction in the sport.

Both men's pool and women's pool had WPA sanctioned events on their schedules back in 2006, so pro pool had to deal with the contingency that players who had signed contracts with WPA sanctioned tours would violate those contracts by playing in the more lucrative IPT, perhaps even on the dates of another WPA sanctioned event.

The matter and need for exclusive rights as they pertain to player contracts is not simple, but I'll try to offer, in oversimplified terms, the rationale. When a tour or proprietor approaches a potential venue sponsor to try to make a business deal to stage an event, its bargaining position is greatly strengthened if they can guarantee that its players under contract will not play in a competing event over the same dates. For this reason, having player contracts that enable a proprietor to make this promise was typically deemed advisable and to the advantage of all tour members.

Might a new tour emerge at some point that, like the IPT, offers greater riches than those otherwise available to pro players? Yes, it could, and the governing bodies of pool worldwide need to be ready for such a contingency.

If that day comes we can only hope that its not run by a con-artist fraudster.

 

[Vahmurka]

Mark's events do not include 9ball so again, how is MR going after him too?

9-ball or One Pocket, makes no difference. It would have been better if MR did pay attention to the world calendar (and maybe even some of the biggest US events) but they simply decide not to care about anything but their own. Cross-scheduling here and there. And what is more strange, they didn't care UK Open had to do without most of the Asian players who had to play SEA Games at that time.

 

[garczar]

9-ball or One Pocket, makes no difference. It would have been better if MR did pay attention to the world calendar (and maybe even some of the biggest US events) but they simply decide not to care about anything but their own. Cross-scheduling here and there. And what is more strange, they didn't care UK Open had to do without most of the Asian players who had to play SEA Games at that time.

US Open,Derby City and the Int'lOpen are the three biggest US events. Mark's events are nice but not on the same scale as these three. They can't re-arrange for everybody.

 

[sjm]

Well Matchroom already has threatened players, and intentionally scheduled events opposite those they wished to undermine. Maybe it is not Predator they are targeting, but they sure seem to be doing some targeting -- Mark Griffin's events and Pat Fleming's also. It is an age old tactic of monopolistic pool promoters, going way back.

Undermining Pat? Just how do figure that? Did you know that Matchroom and Pat have collaborated to the point that the International, Pat's only major pro pool production, is now a Matchroom rankings event?

As for the CSI/Predator conflict, and there is just one, you're obviously referring to the November date issue between the European Open in Germany and the World 8-ball, and WPA opted to sanction both in the end.

Any suggestion that Matchroom is going all out to schedule over CSI/Predator is misinformed. I've said it previously and I'll say it again --- CSI/Predator should not and need not be guided by Matchroom's event schedule and Matchroom should not and need not be guided by CSI/Predator's event schedule. Any date conflicts that arise between WPA sanctioned events are the domain of WPA, empowered to resolve sanctioning and scheduling issues as they arise.

As for threatening players, I am not aware of this, but if you care to share the specifics, I'm listening.

 

[sjm]

9-ball or One Pocket, makes no difference. It would have been better if MR did pay attention to the world calendar (and maybe even some of the biggest US events) but they simply decide not to care about anything but their own. Cross-scheduling here and there. And what is more strange, they didn't care UK Open had to do without most of the Asian players who had to play SEA Games at that time.

Nonsense. Date protection is available to every event producer as long as they take the steps necessary to obtain WPA sanctioning. If they choose not to do so, they shouldn't expect it.

Do you really think that event producers like CSI/Predator and Matchroom study the worldwide pool landscape to make sure they don't schedule over unsanctioned events? Why on earth would they?

While the calendar of sanctioned events is carefully maintained and regularly updated on the WPA website, where exactly would one even look to find a calendar pertaining to all the unsanctioned pro events and wouldn't it be a huge undertaking?

In other words, the information that would enable unsanctioned events to schedule around sanctioned events is readily available, but not vice versa.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Pool is disorginizated, and one only look at history of Bar & Room Owners working together in one direction. Not no cooperation even at amature level. Why would two Bar or Room with in a couple of mile of one anther put on big Tournment on the exact same Saturday. Stupid is one reason, then both owners cry about poor turnout.

How many group claim to be in Pool business, BCAPL, ACS, APA, and how many others. Real sucessful sport have just one scanning group, one set of rules. Most like NASCAR, NHRA, PRCA, NFL, etc., share one thing in common. Sucess.

 

[dnschmidt]

Pool has gone nowhere, is going nowhere and never will go anywhere. This is about the 10,000 thread about how to make pool bigtime. The answer is, was and forever will be, at least in the USA, it's going nowhere.

 

[sjm]

This is about the 10,000 thread about how to make pool bigtime. The answer is, was and forever will be, at least in the USA, it's going nowhere.

Actually, that's not the subject of the thread at all. The original post takes note of the escalating conflict in pro golf and asks whether something similar is possible in pool. The answer is that it can happen and, in fact, already has happened. Pool has already had to fade the money grab and the conflicts that surrounded the formation of the 2006 IPT, Kevin Trudeau's 8-ball tour.

There's very little in the thread about how to make pool better, but there is some consideration and critique of pool's present and a reflection on some of its past.

 

[Island Drive]

Roaming cats......always look for the greener gra$$.

Thus, they become changeable.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Bryson DeChambeau just lost one of his sponsors (Rocket Mortgage) because he said he was planning on playing in the LIV's 2nd event.

 

[vapoolplayer]

In the end, the PGA Tour is a business. Albeit a non profit, but it’s still going to be run like most any business.

If competition for a business shows up an threatens to take market share, other businesses will do what they can to stop it.

Just the way the world works. If pool were to ever get big enough, you’d see this happen as well more often than it already has.

Things like the PGA, MLB, NFL (yes I know the pga is a bit different than say the MLB, but it’s comparable in this aspect) didn’t become the only game in town by being polite and letting other organizations take market share basically using their past work against them.

Now, does that mean it might not always being in the best interest of players in the short term? Of course.

 

[Kjackxon]

We quickly forget what happens when a “contender” threatens a major organization. The PGA/USGA/Euro management(s) all saw what was best for the game, and instituted measures that resolved their issues. The Pros where allowed to play in a selected number of competing events and left the USGA to retain their role in promoting fairness in the game. Who’s going to tell Tiger that he can’t participate in a LIV event should he wants to. I do disagree with the LIV promoters in throwing cash at a few players - It’s the PGA’s right to manage that - they are just forgetting history.

 

[garczar]

We quickly forget what happens when a “contender” threatens a major organization. The PGA/USGA/Euro management(s) all saw what was best for the game, and instituted measures that resolved their issues. The Pros where allowed to play in a selected number of competing events and left the USGA to retain their role in promoting fairness in the game. Who’s going to tell Tiger that he can’t participate in a LIV event should he wants to. I do disagree with the LIV promoters in throwing cash at a few players - It’s the PGA’s right to manage that - they are just forgetting history.

LIV offered Tiger around ONE BILLION and he said 'no thanks'. They also offered J. Nicklaus 100Million to be a spokesman and he too turned them down. These guys got rich because of the PGATour. Loyalty still means something to some people. IMO Mickleson is a fkng clown. First he did all he could to knock the LIVTour and then he joined. Total asshat. Won't miss Fowler,Reed or Na either. Fowler and Na can't win and Reed is a cheating douchebag.

 

[jason]

I agree with Stu and was going to mention the IPT, but he got there first. Will this happen to pool? Probably not in the near future for reasons said above...we don't have the fan base or an organized field, etc, etc, etc.

If I were to offer a $10 million guaranteed prize fund for a new tournament and decide to hold it on the exact dates as the DCC, I'm sure I could easily collapse the tournament . Players will follow the money. Sadly, almost all people have a price and can be bought. That is just the way the world works.

Now be a good pool hustler and get out there an steal some drug money on the pool table! You deserve it!!!

 

[garczar]

I agree with Stu and was going to mention the IPT, but he got there first. Will this happen to pool? Probably not in the near future for reasons said above...we don't have the fan base or an organized field, etc, etc, etc.

If I were to offer a $10 million guaranteed prize fund for a new tournament and decide to hold it on the exact dates as the DCC, I'm sure I could easily collapse the tournament . Players will follow the money. Sadly, almost all people have a price and can be bought. That is just the way the world works.

Now be a good pool hustler and get out there an steal some drug money on the pool table! You deserve it!!!

IPT was doomed from the start although no one knew it. It was being run by a complete(and tried/jailed) con-artist. Don't see this scenario of HUGE $$$ event(s) anytime soon. No one with any brains would throw that kind of money around with little-to-no chance of a return.