Could Willie make the team?

[Bob Jewett]

He would be the best player in the tournament. He would pick up 9 ball so fast it would make your head spin.

No, he wouldn't pick up 9-ball. He was a top 9-ball player at the time. I think that Willie, like Efren, would teach the current 9-ball players a thing or two about position play and safeties.

Where Willie might have to learn is the break shot. I suspect he would master the current requirements pretty quickly. If Willie really did dislike 9-ball (and it wasn't just Brunswick's rep speaking), I think it was because the break shot was so random compared to the break shot at 14.1 which was not random for Willie. The break shot is better understood now.

 

[pw98]

I wonder. Consider that when you play good position in 14.1, you really don't have to move the cue ball around very much and you're in charge of your position on the next ball. Compare that to any one of those Mosconi races we just saw. The outgoing player has played safe, or missed and left good position on the next ball, but not the ball you have to shoot. Result: lots of multi-rail kicks, lots of long thin cuts, lots of spin often required, etc. Not Willie's forte--precisely because he did play such great position. Seems to me you gotta play a LOT of nine ball to play at the Cup level. But who knows?

The thing is you have to make shots like this to start runs in straight pool. Maybe not multi-rail kicks but good opponents are not going to give you hangers to start.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Willie I think could, plus would be great ambassador to represent .

 

[Bob Jewett]

The thing is you have to make shots like this to start runs in straight pool. Maybe not multi-rail kicks but good opponents are not going to give you hangers to start.

Willie was also a good 3-cushion player. He also beat a snooker champ some frames of snooker in their mixed-game tour.

 

[kling&allen]

Willie I think could, plus would be great ambassador to represent .

No doubt that he is one of the GOATs, but I don't know that he would be a good ambassador given his general disdain for the sport and many of the people who enjoy it. Mosconi was never able to garner the media attention of Fats and others who came before and after him.

 

[garczar]

If WM was teleported 'StarTrek' style directly to today he would have made the team but he would not have fared well against the current Euro line-up. That's my story and i'm sticking to it. These comparisons of now vs then are impossible to come up with definitive answers. If he would have just walked straight in from the past to a MC equipment set-up against the top Euro's i don't think ol Willie would have liked it much. Never know so what does it matter? Just shows how bad US pool is that we have to dream-up scenarios based on pure fantasy.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

No doubt that he is one of the GOATs, but I don't know that he would be a good ambassador given his general disdain for the sport and many of the people who enjoy it. Mosconi was never able to garner the media attention of Fats and others who came before and after him.

Well Willie was a Brunswick employee for many years, he was not a Fats type person.

Willie was a gentleman, and great ambassador.

Most of the Mosconi family were in entertainment bis, as he cousin said to me. This is my cousin Willie he is Pool player.

 

[kling&allen]

Well Willie was a Brunswick employee for many years, he was not a Fats type person.

Willie was a gentleman, and great ambassador.

Most of the Mosconi family were in entertainment bis, as he cousin said to me. This is my cousin Willie he is Pool player.

I don't disagree with any of that, expect pool and Brunswick both failed miserably when Willie was their chief ambassador in the late 40s.and early 50s.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I don't disagree with any of that, expect pool and Brunswick both failed miserably when Willie was their chief ambassador in the late 40s.and early 50s.

Think part of reason for failure was Pool was replaced with other recreational activities.


Back in 1960 Slot Car racing was big. Shop with track we’re every where. Fad died in 5 years.

 

[garczar]

I don't disagree with any of that, expect pool and Brunswick both failed miserably when Willie was their chief ambassador in the late 40s.and early 50s.

I met him twice. He had the personality of a cardboard box both times. First time was a exhibition at a local B'wick dealer. He got out of the cab, said a couple hello's, ran about 90( cold, no warm -up. impressive) got back in and left. Gave the impression of a robot who did not like what he was doing.

 

[KeithS66]

How many jump shots did Willie make in a tournament for his career?
Its a statistical fact. Local bangers make more jump shots in a night, then his career.

That statistic also indicates that they are hooked more than Willie. I would also say that make is a strong word. "Get a hit" is more likely for bangers than making it and getting shape to run out. Another variable to consider is how they were hooked? It's just as likely they hooked themselves as they were hooked by an opponent. Another thing to remember is that both Greenleaf and Willie played 3 cushion at a decent level. I think Charlie Ursitti or maybe Mike Shamos had them listed in tournaments. They did not play to the level of Hoppe, Cochran, or Schaefer, or even Bozeman, but they played better than average at the time. Willie would have been able to kick and would likely kick well today. Adapting to equipment, was something everybody had to do and still have to do today. The ability to execute jump shots while a factor, is not at the top of the list of priorities on how players of a bygone era would perform if they were here today.

 

[justnum]

That statistic also indicates that they are hooked more than Willie. I would also say that make is a strong word. "Get a hit" is more likely for bangers than making it and getting shape to run out. Another variable to consider is how they were hooked? It's just as likely they hooked themselves as they were hooked by an opponent. Another thing to remember is that both Greenleaf and Willie played 3 cushion at a decent level. I think Charlie Ursitti or maybe Mike Shamos had them listed in tournaments. They did not play to the level of Hoppe, Cochran, or Schaefer, or even Bozeman, but they played better than average at the time. Willie would have been able to kick and would likely kick well today. Adapting to equipment, was something everybody had to do and still have to do today. The ability to execute jump shots while a factor, is not at the top of the list of priorities on how players of a bygone era would perform if they were here today.

This discussion is best examined with a review of the top 10 jump shots from competition moments. Would those same shots have been possible by kicking at them?

I will get back to you.

 

[measureman]

How many jump shots did Willie make in a tournament for his career?
Its a statistical fact. Local bangers make more jump shots in a night, then his career.

Another dumb post.

 

[Boxcar]

You don't need to jump when you got poz.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Willie never played fast cloth or layered tips or jump cues.

Its 20th century player vs 21st century player. In other areas the future always wins.

The weakest players on tour has more ability than willie.

Well, you just conspicuously discredited yourself amongst your peers, or at least the vast majority.
It is obvious you are ignorant, or misinformed, about Willie’s accomplishments and it’s impressive,
both in terms of confirming his greatness & corroborating your lack of appreciation for the legends.

Try this for size……and remember that pool was booming when Willie played and the great players
he competed against that are legendary names. How many of today’s players will become legends?

In 1940-41, a round-robin pool tournament series was sponsored by billiard halls, eight of the best
players were selected to compete. Willie was sponsored by a prominent NYC billiards parlor, McGirr’s.

Willie dominated the series and ran 125 balls from the opening break shot 5 times when only 2 other
players in history has accomplished that feat. Guess what? That was the start and Willie only got better.

Between 1941 and 1957, when pool was really popular worldwide, Mr. Mosconi won the World Straight
Pool Championship 18 times. If you want to appreciate how many that is, remove you socks and count
your fingers and toes. Willie almost won a World Championship, not any local tournament, for every digit
you can count on your hands & feet. In 1957, Willie suffered a stroke and sadly, officially retired from pool.

Willie Moscini dominated men’s professional pocket billiards and is among the top 5 to ever play this game.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Between 1941 and 1957, when pool was really popular worldwide, Mr. Mosconi won the World Straight
Pool Championship 18 times. ....

According to Charlie Ursitti's records, it was 19 times:

	Year	Month	Type	Format	Points	Players	Winner	Score	Runner-up	Score	Location
1	1940-1941	Nov.-May	League	32xRR	125	8	Mosconi	176W 48L	Ponzi	144W 80L	Multiple cities
2	1942	Nov.-Dec.	Tourney	Double RR	125	6	Mosconi	9W 1L	Ponzi	6W 4L	Detroit
3	1944	Feb.-Mar.	Match	10 blocks	125	2	Mosconi	1250	Ponzi	924	Kansas City, MO
4	1945	Jan.-Feb.	Match	48 blocks	125	2	Mosconi	5498	Greenleaf	3738	KCMO, Chicago, Detroit, NYC
5	1946	Feb.-Mar.	Match	86 blocks	125	2	Mosconi	8727	Caras	7508	10 cities
6	1946	Nov.	Match	30 blocks	125	2	Mosconi	3750	Crane	2919	Rochester, Phila., Cleve., Chicago
7	1947	May	Match	16 blocks	125	2	Mosconi	2000	Crane	918	Perth Amboy, Chicago
8	1947	Oct.-Nov	Match	32 blocks	125	2	Mosconi	4000	Caras	2334	Detroit, Perth Amboy, KCMO
9	1948	Mar.	Match	9 blocks	150	2	Mosconi	1350	Ponzi	643	Chicago
10	1950	Feb.	Tourney	Double RR	150	4	Mosconi	4W 2L	Crane	4W 2L*	Chicago (*decided in a playoff)
11	1951	Jan.	Match	20 blocks	150	2	Mosconi	3000	Crane	2323	Phila., KCMO
12	1951	Feb.	Tourney	Double RR	150	4	Mosconi	6W 0L	3 players	2W 4L	Chicago
13	1952	Mar.-Apr.	Tourney	RR	150	10	Mosconi	8W 1L	Crane	7W 2L	Boston
14	1953	Mar.	Tourney	RR	150	9	Mosconi	8W 0L	4 players	5W 3L	San Fran. (Procita, Caras, Moore, Crane)
15	1954	Feb.-Mar.	Match	16 blocks	150	2	Mosconi	2400	Procita	989	Phila., Chicago
16	1955	Nov.-Dec.	Match	10 blocks	150	2	Mosconi	1500	Crane	676	Phila.
17	1956	Jan.-Feb.	Match	42 blocks	150	2	Mosconi	6300	Caras	3007	Phila., Wash., Milwaukee., Chicago, Rockford, Detroit
18	1956	Mar.	Match	12 blocks	150	2	Mosconi	1800	Moore	879	Albuquerque
19	1956	Apr.	Tourney	Double RR	150	8	Mosconi	14W 0L	Crane	10W 4L	Kinston, NC

 

[skogstokig]

Well, you just conspicuously discredited yourself amongst your peers, or at least the vast majority.
It is obvious you are ignorant, or misinformed, about Willie’s accomplishments and it’s impressive,
both in terms of confirming his greatness & corroborating your lack of appreciation for the legends.

Try this for size……and remember that pool was booming when Willie played and the great players
he competed against that are legendary names. How many of today’s players will become legends?

In 1940-41, a round-robin pool tournament series was sponsored by billiard halls. Eight of the best
players were selected to compete. Willie was sponsored by a prominent NYC billiards parlor, McGirr’s.
Willie dominated the series and ran 125 balls from the opening break shot 5 times when only 2 other
players in history has accomplished that feat. Guess what? That was the start and Willie only got better.

Between 1941 and 1957, when pool was really popular worldwide, Mr. Mosconi won the World Straight
Pool Championship 18 times. If you want to appreciate how many that is, remove you socks and count
your fingers and toes. Willie almost won a World Championship, not any local tournament, for every digit
you can count on your hands & feet. In 1957, Willie suffered a stroke and sadly, officially retired from pool.

were those WC:s the ones where the title holder only had to play one match?

it's true that pool was fairly popular, but also mainly a national affair. SVB went overseas and beat an international field of 256 players to win the world championship.

 

[AtLarge]

According to Charlie Ursitti's records, it was 19 times: ...

Willie's autobiography also lists 19 (although a few of the details are different).

 

[Bob Jewett]

were those WC:s the ones where the title holder only had to play one match?
...

See my listing above. The fewest points for any single-match defense was 1250 (against Ponzi, 1944).

 

[Bob Jewett]

I believe one of the 19 Tournaments he won, was called a National Championship and not a World Championship, therefore 18 times.

Which one listed above?