CSI Questionable use of the "US Open" name?

[jmurphy]

I just left the RIO last night and the place looks great.
It was awesome seeing some of the Pro matches however it seems like a lot of people are going to miss out on seeing the event live because it's being held before the BCALP "team" events get started.
I guess that had to be done because the 10-Ball & 8-Ball events are being held on the bar tables not a separate arena of 9 foot tables. Which brings me to my issue with the use of the "US Open" name.

If you are going to hold these Pro events on Bar tables IMHOP the title should be:

CSI 10-Ball Championships
CSI 8-Ball Championships
OR
US Open 10-Ball Bar Table Championships
US Open 8-Ball Bar Table Championships

The point being that there should a clear distinction when Pro tournaments are being held on Bar tables vs. 9 foot tables.
The use of "US Open" in the title of a pool tournament is the Gold Standard and for 40 years now it has been synonymous with the Pro tour as a "Pro table" / "Big table" event.

Any thoughts?

 

[Djtnak]

I am pretty sure that Csi owns the rights to the U.S. open title. They can do what they want with it.

 

[sebroy9]

At least call it the us open bar tables.

 

[ideologist]

I agree with you, but they own the name and will use it as they see fit. They will tell you all the reasons why, but at the end of the day, the big track separates the wheat from the chaff.

It takes a lot of skill to dominate the barbox like these guys do, but there is a reason that a lot of the top US barbox players flounder in the big table tournaments.

 

[The Captain]

Everyone can say what they want about 7' tables not being real tables, being easier, not real pool, etc... However, the fact of the matter is that it's just a difficult/easy as a 9' table. It just takes a different set of skills. Sure, on a "barbox" it's easier to pocket balls because the shots are generally shorter. But on the flip side, it's much more difficult to navigate the table without the room that a 9' provides. So, in my OPINION, either is a true test of skill when pitted against the best players in the game. And for the record, I'm not a proponent of barboxes over 9 footers, I can just understand the difficulties and nuances associated with each table. As for everyone comparing it to golf... (Full course vs miniature golf)... It's more like a wide open links type course measuring in at over 7500 yards vs a stadium type course measuring in at under 7000 yards. Just as difficult, but for different reasons.

 

[Johnnyt]

crap game as long as it

Sorry, I was wrong here. Thank you for pointing this out. Johnnyt

 

[Double-Dave]

It's funny how the WPA jumped all over CW/Dragon for using world last year, and rightly so, but not a peep about world on 7' tables.

Wut?

They are called the US Open 10-Ball / US Open 8-Ball.
No mention of "world" anywhere.

CSI doesn't pull moves like that.

gr. Dave

 

[Joe_Jaguar]

It's funny how the WPA jumped all over CW/Dragon for using world last year, and rightly so, but not a peep about world on 7' tables. I think the WPA would sanction a crap game or hot dog eating contest, as long as it was done on a pool table of ANY size and fee was paid to the WPA. Johnnyt.

You're getting this confused with Matchroom, not WPA, right? It isn't CSI's problem that Matchroom decided to make it a points event. Heck they might as well take advantage of it and get more people to sign up. Otherwise would someone like Justin Hall even be out at this event, as an example?

 

[Joe_Jaguar]

I just left the RIO last night and the place looks great.
It was awesome seeing some of the Pro matches however it seems like a lot of people are going to miss out on seeing the event live because it's being held before the BCALP "team" events get started.
I guess that had to be done because the 10-Ball & 8-Ball events are being held on the bar tables not a separate arena of 9 foot tables. Which brings me to my issue with the use of the "US Open" name.

If you are going to hold these Pro events on Bar tables IMHOP the title should be:

CSI 10-Ball Championships
CSI 8-Ball Championships
OR
US Open 10-Ball Bar Table Championships
US Open 8-Ball Bar Table Championships

The point being that there should a clear distinction when Pro tournaments are being held on Bar tables vs. 9 foot tables.
The use of "US Open" in the title of a pool tournament is the Gold Standard and for 40 years now it has been synonymous with the Pro tour as a "Pro table" / "Big table" event.

Any thoughts?

Yep, and that is one of the main issues people have had with this since it was first announced. They already have the US Bar Table Championships in Reno. So they decided to leverage the dormant name they own and make use of that property and call a new event, the US Open. I voiced my opinion by not buying the stream. Won't make a diff but people going to do whatever they want to do.

 

[cleary]

Only kills any prestige the name had in the first place. For the players, they're just lucky they have a chance to win some money but CSI must know they're devaluing they're own asset (if it's really even of value). This game is a mess and the people in charge just keep digging the hole. Sucks but what can ya do?

 

[jmurphy]

Everyone can say what they want about 7' tables not being real tables, being easier, not real pool, etc... However, the fact of the matter is that it's just a difficult/easy as a 9' table. It just takes a different set of skills. Sure, on a "barbox" it's easier to pocket balls because the shots are generally shorter. But on the flip side, it's much more difficult to navigate the table without the room that a 9' provides. So, in my OPINION, either is a true test of skill when pitted against the best players in the game. And for the record, I'm not a proponent of barboxes over 9 footers, I can just understand the difficulties and nuances associated with each table. As for everyone comparing it to golf... (Full course vs miniature golf)... It's more like a wide open links type course measuring in at over 7500 yards vs a stadium type course measuring in at under 7000 yards. Just as difficult, but for different reasons.

No one is saying 7 foot tables is not real pool.......
All I am saying is there should be a clear distinction between the two when it come to Pro pool.
If the distinction is made then you can use the US Open name in more ways ie:

US Open 10-Ball Championships (9' tables)
US Open 8-Ball Championships (9' tables)
US Open 10-Ball Bar Table Championships (7' tables)
US Open 8-Ball Bar Table Championships (7' tables)

IMHOP with out the clear distinction the US Open name looses some of it's luster.

 

[jmurphy]

Only kills any prestige the name had in the first place. For the players, they're just lucky they have a chance to win some money but CSI must know they're devaluing they're own asset (if it's really even of value). This game is a mess and the people in charge just keep digging the hole. Sucks but what can ya do?

Exactly my point,
Very well said Sir :thumbup:

 

[cuesblues]

Here is a betting tip from a fellow AZer:

There's a buddy of mine there at the Rio that I nicknamed "Two & Out", his real
name is Derek, and if you see him you might want to hit him up for some action.



:smile:

 

[SouthernDraw]

Bar Table & Diamond Tables not equal

The name bar table belongs with the likes of Valley tables. It used to be that every bar and even clubs had Valley bar tables. They didn't take up much time and gave customers something to watch or play between socializing or dancing. Usually owned by someone other than the bar or club owner. But they added some income without having to give up anything other than space. Valleys were the tables in all bars and this is how they got their name. Not because they were smaller than 9-foot tables.

In the 80's and 90's the barbox was a different game. Valley tables had huge cue balls. Usually thick cloth with rubber backing that made them play tremendously slow and divots in the cloth made balls settle or roll off paths. Along the rails was a deep worn path that would make balls hug the rail on the way to pocket and a cue ball would often stop on this worn path to hug a cushion. Being in bars, people would push or pick up tables, so they were always unlevel. Cheap slate.... don't even get me started. But, you could always go to these places and find someone to gamble $5 a game or at least a beer.

But don't confuse a 7-foot Diamond with a Barbox. Seven-foot Diamonds are inferior to 9-foot Diamonds, I agree. And I wish these tournaments were on 9-foot tables but I understand the reasoning. Still, they are not to be confused with Barboxes.

 

[jmurphy]

The name bar table belongs with the likes of Valley tables. It used to be that every bar and even clubs had Valley bar tables. They didn't take up much time and gave customers something to watch or play between socializing or dancing. Usually owned by someone other than the bar or club owner. But they added some income without having to give up anything other than space. Valleys were the tables in all bars and this is how they got their name. Not because they were smaller than 9-foot tables.

In the 80's and 90's the barbox was a different game. Valley tables had huge cue balls. Usually thick cloth with rubber backing that made them play tremendously slow and divots in the cloth made balls settle or roll off paths. Along the rails was a deep worn path that would make balls hug the rail on the way to pocket and a cue ball would often stop on this worn path to hug a cushion. Being in bars, people would push or pick up tables, so they were always unlevel. Cheap slate.... don't even get me started. But, you could always go to these places and find someone to gamble $5 a game or at least a beer.

But don't confuse a 7-foot Diamond with a Barbox. Seven-foot Diamonds are inferior to 9-foot Diamonds, I agree. And I wish these tournaments were on 9-foot tables but I understand the reasoning. Still, they are not to be confused with Barboxes.

The point being that for 40 years now the Prestige of the US Open name (in Pool) is synonymous (and should remain so) with Pro Pool and 9' tables .
As another AZ member stated CSI is devaluing the Prestige of the US Open name as long as no clear distinction is made in reference to these championships being played on 7' tables.

 

[sebroy9]

Wut?

They are called the US Open 10-Ball / US Open 8-Ball.
No mention of "world" anywhere.

CSI doesn't pull moves like that.

gr. Dave

Bar box should be in the tittle.. I almost got tricked into buying the payperview because they almost made it seem like it was 9 footers.

 

[Agent 99]

I just left the RIO last night and the place looks great.
It was awesome seeing some of the Pro matches however it seems like a lot of people are going to miss out on seeing the event live because it's being held before the BCALP "team" events get started.
I guess that had to be done because the 10-Ball & 8-Ball events are being held on the bar tables not a separate arena of 9 foot tables. Which brings me to my issue with the use of the "US Open" name.

If you are going to hold these Pro events on Bar tables IMHOP the title should be:

CSI 10-Ball Championships
CSI 8-Ball Championships
OR
US Open 10-Ball Bar Table Championships
US Open 8-Ball Bar Table Championships

The point being that there should a clear distinction when Pro tournaments are being held on Bar tables vs. 9 foot tables.
The use of "US Open" in the title of a pool tournament is the Gold Standard and for 40 years now it has been synonymous with the Pro tour as a "Pro table" / "Big table" event.

Any thoughts?

They can call it what ever they want ... but it is not the US Open to me and many others.

I guess Earl will not have to worry about Shane ever passing his total of 5 US Open Championships ... Not in the eyes of any reasonable person.

Sure it's a bad Pool decision ... but it's an even worse Business decision - one whose purpose is very short sighted and ill found.

The real value in the US Open name is it's history. A history now, at this time anyway, that has been shoved aside for short term profit.

I have to wonder why they paid good money for the rights to the US Open name when they have no interest in it's continuation. Should of just ran their tournaments on Bar Boxes and called it what ever.

How could anyone think that a tournament being held on 7 footers would be recognized by anyone as the US Open?

Not saying they will not run a nice little tournament, but to try and pass it off as the US Open is comical at best.

How many people will ask in two or three years, "What ever happened to the US Open?"

And someone might reply ... 'They have changed the format and it's now played on 7 footers. In the fairness of history they have retroactively awarded Jimmy Reed with 5 honorary titles.'

Perhaps next year Major League Baseball will start playing the World Series on Little League fields and retroactively give the Bad News Bears a World Series title, just to be fair.

Good rolls.

 

[BRussell]

I don't care so much about the name of the tournament. It's a deeper issue than that. We all know any move towards 7-footers is a retreat rather than a proactive decision or a belief that 7-footers are better. Pool rooms have gone away and so people are forced to play at bars that cram in a small table or two. And it's a downward cycle, because American pool is already in a sad state compared to the rest of the world, and playing on smaller tables won't help.

 

[pt109]

I'm not a fan of 7-footers....but there's another way of looking at this.

Better to have the US Open 10-ball on bar tables than not at all.
The set-up was inexpensive, therefore more money for the players.

In a perfect world, this event would be played under world class conditions with hundreds
of entries.....but in case no one has noticed, it's not a perfect world.

The snooker world survived until 1977 with inferior venues....
...but they were ready when they got their break.

I applaud CSI for hanging in there

 

[sebroy9]

People have the right to like 7 footers if they want to or not. MY issue is the name should have bar table in it because people might get tricked into buying the payperview for something they are not interested in. That almost happened to me.