CTE aiming mathamatics

DCsquared

Registered
Please Note that in the following diagrams any letter with a ‘ (prime) is a length and any with out is a angle and capital letters are points. Also the green ball is the “ghost ball”.

Variables defined:

P = pivot point
E = edge of object ball

m’ = Distance from center of object ball to desired pocket
mx’ = x component of m’
my’ = y component of m’

x’ = radius of cue ball (indicated by all red lines)

b’ = bridge length (green line)

l’ = length from the pivot point (P) to the edge of the object ball (E) (purple line)

n’ = length from the center of the cue ball to the x’ the runs from the center of the object
ball to E

d’ = distance at the edge of the cue ball between b’ and l’

a = angle between m’ and my’ (vertical)

b = angle between the line from the center of the ghost ball to desired pocket and n’

c = angle between n’ and my’ (vertical)

d = angle between l’ and vertical

e = angle between n’/b’ and l’


CTE for Various Shots:

Shot #1: Low angle shot ( b < 30 degrees)

Image #1 is a full table view of this shot.

Image #2 shows the angles created upon cue ball impact with object ball.

Image #3 include from point P to object ball.


In this shot the desired angle that we wish to generate in order to make the shot is angle a. This is difficult because angle b is hard to measure as there are no physical reference points for it’s measurement.

Therefore we can use physical reference points to generate d and e which in turn will create angle b.

First how a is dependent on b, d and e by using similar angle laws. Z rule and opposite angle rule (high school math).

a = b + c [1]
c = e + d [2]

rearranging and solving for a gives:

a = b + (e+d)
= b + e + d [3]

Using CTE you initially set up distance d’ off the center of the q ball creating a straight line between P and E. This takes the measurement of angle d.

You then pivot distance d’ about point P to the center of the cue ball (inline with n’). This generates angle e.

The collision of the object ball and the cue ball produces angle b.

You now have the 3 pieces of information needed to generate angle a.

The other variable that you need to know is distance d’. The correct d’ is proportional to b’. As your bridge length increases so must your d’. This is why you must practice with CTE to figure out what d‘ correlates to your comfortable bridge length.

Shot # 2 No angle shot (DEAD straight)

Image #4 is a full table view of this shot.

Image #5 shows the angles created upon cue ball impact with object ball.

Image #6 include from point P to object ball.

As you can see in the this shot angle b goes to zero. That is why this is much easier to picture.




Therefore equations #1, #2 and #3 become

c = e + d
c = a
a = e + d

Measure d pivot distance d’ about P to measure e. This then gives you angle c which in turn generates angle upon impact.

Shot #3 Half ball Hit ( b = 30 degrees)

Image #7 is a full table view of this shot.

Image #8 shows the angles created upon cue ball impact with object ball.

Image #9 include from point P to object ball.

In this shot angle c has gone to zero.

Therefore equations #1, #2 and #3 become

a = b
0 = e + d
a = b

In this shot no measurements of e and d are not required as they both equal 0. Therefore you can line the center of the ball at the edge to generate b which in turn generates a upon impact.

Shot #4 acute angle cut (b > 30 degrees)

Image #10 is a full table view of this shot.

Image #11 shows the angles created upon cue ball impact with object ball.

Image #12 include from point P to object ball.


Also not that I have added 3 Points:

A: Center of object ball
B: Center of ghost ball
C: End of red (length = 2 x’) segment

Line AB is equal in length to BC
Line BC is the projection of AB across the vertical axis of the ghost ball such that the angle ABC is 90 degrees. This is important so that the angle laws still work. It also shows why on shots when b > 30 degrees you l’ is on the opposite side of n’ then in shots when b < 30 degrees.

In this case everything works the same. Angles d and b’ are also projected across P’s vertical axis.

Equations 1 and 2 remain the same:

a = b + c
c = d + e

measure d using by lining up P to E. Pivot d’ to center of cue ball to generate e. b is generated by the collision between object and cue balls. The results is angle a.

Pretty sure that should cover every shot on the table while using CTE. Of course spin and throw and all of that fun stuff are not taken into account.

Enjoy!
 

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This is beautiful. Don't understand a bit of it but I love it.

Gonna have to print this and try to grasp what you're saying.
Even if you might be pulling my leg.

Thanks for the work no matter what.
 
Jiminy-H-Cricket, I'm ready to drink the Kool-Aid :grin:!!! Now I REALLY feel dumb. Bad enough that I suck at pool, now I realize just how clueless I really am. Jeez!!!

Maniac
 
This is good; except, you will hit an angle where throw will break down this equation. This is where the outermost edge reference line is important. You must alter your perspective to address an edge that will offset this.

It's not important for thick hits per se; however, it becomes increasingly important based on the severity of the cut.

Recalculate based on a true half-ball pivot. You'll see your result is the same. Assuming your math is correct on this (I need to look everything over more before commenting further), Hal was right. I've never calculated your offset.

Also, you're assuming a 1-tip offset to the OB edge. This is really interesting. I discounted this method because the cue alignment wasn't parallel to the CTEL; however, maybe this is-- based on a later part of the arc? I mentioned something to this affect in the CTE thread a few hours ago.

Will study your work some more. With your eyes on the CTEL, with this math, you will come to a point where you miss balls - that I'm pretty sure of. Very impressive post. Check out my blog on adjusting your perspective to offset throw (outermost edge post).

Dave
 
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Does that describe what happens when I take the white ball, make it hit another ball, and send it in the direction of one of those holes at the end of the table? :o

Seriously looks like a lot of thought went into that. Hope it helps someone. If being able to understand that was required, I'd be at the bar. Just a wee bit above my head. ;)
 
It just doesn't get any simpler that that! :grin-square:

Roger


Roger--- it's as easy as it gets. That's what people don't understand.

Sight CTE, offset, pivot to center along the shot circle (OB vertical plane)... ball goes. End of story. I know you teach-- how do you simplify beyond that?

Don't lose sight of the magic of this system: It's based on definitive points - easily perceived definitive points. Uber-repeatable. Not abstract invisible points.

DCSquared:

How do you account for close distances?
 
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It's seriously ironic that this unholy mess is the clearest explanation of CTE to date. Which is not to put down your efforts DCsquared. You seem to get it and you are the rare combination of someone who gets CTE and someone who is willing to share CTE. It seems like there are several guys who are only one or the other.

This is what caught my eye and cleared up the entire thing for me. I don't know why CTE proponents can't or won't put this simple concept into words:

The other variable that you need to know is distance d’. The correct d’ is proportional to b’. As your bridge length increases so must your d’. This is why you must practice with CTE to figure out what d‘ correlates to your comfortable bridge length.

I'm hoping you're willing to go a little further to help those of us who want to learn. Maybe imagine your readers are 13 years old at most :P What I'm hoping for is a step by step process for aiming, at a very minimum, cuts over 30 degrees (which are the ones we're gonna have trouble with). Within each step would be an explanation of how you determine where to position the bridge, how you determine the amount of pivot for your given bridge length, etc.

So far what I can glean from this is:

1. Plant your bridge hand to make the pivot. I guess the initial bridge plant is based on... what, a best guess on how to line up the shot to to pocket it?

2. Point the stick directly from the pivot point to the edge of the OB. This effectively ignores the position of the CB. All the stuff about "1 tip of right" or "1 tip of left" was a red herring? You just happen to be pointing through one side of the cue ball when you line up in a straight line from the bridge to the edge of the ball?

3. Pivot back to the perceived center of the cue ball. You mean literally what our eyes see as the center? But you mention learning to pivot distance d through practice/experience based on your preferred bridge length.

So when you're done pivoting the correct amount (unknown until you've done it several times)... will your eyes tell you that you're pointing the center of the cue ball? Or will you sometimes pivot less or more (so it looks like you're pointing off of the center of the CB)? ...In which case you do what? Get up off the shot a little and step sideways to re-align yourself so that the chosen pivot looks like it's pointing at the center? Does your bridge hand ever have to move in a typical CTE cut?

Lastly, can the images be photoshopped so that the text is larger, extraneous lines and labels (that aren't relevant to the step-by-step aiming process) are removed? OB paths and the true north line and the crossed + lines are removed (unless that true north line in relevant somehow?)... And can the 4 cut diagrams are labelled (only the straight in diagram is completely clear, the other 3 are not).

I know you owe us nothing and you already put a lot of work into this, I won't be offended if you say you can't be bothered. Well, ok, I actually will a little. It seems like CTE explanations are willfully as ... what's the word someone used? Obscurantist? as they possibly could be.
 
Creedo - You don't have to practice to adjust bridge length. You can keep that as a constant and adjust the path (arc) to CB (shot circle). Also, my offset is always 1/2 ball. If your addressable edge of the CB is a variable (outermost edge), your offset can remain a constant.
 
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Roger--- it's as easy as it gets. That's what people don't understand.

Sight CTE, offset, pivot to center along the shot circle (OB vertical plane)... ball goes. End of story. I know you teach-- how do you simplify beyond that?

Don't lose sight of the magic of this system: It's based on definitive points - easily perceived definitive points. Uber-repeatable. Not abstract invisible points.

DCSquared:

How do you account for close distances?

Oh so true! It's simple and some people just can't understand or believe it could be that simple.
 
Oh so true! It's simple and some people just can't understand or believe it could be that simple.

I wonder how many smart people are going to read this and say CTE is too complicated. CTE is the easiest method in pocketing balls. Sight CTE, offset, pivot, shoot. Center pocket. Why play by feel when feel falters? Why perceive bases of ghost balls 1 1/8" when perception can by skewed?

Perception can be skewed with this as well, just a LOT less because you're staring at definitive points. Basing pool off definitive points is the future of pool.

Where's Dr. Dave?
 
image10ta.jpg


Here's how you change the addressable edge of the CB and combat throw.
You can use a circle to calibrate your tip offset and bridge length. OB is center of rotation.
 
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Hey dudes and Dudettes, Yea sorry that the images are not super clear. The full table view is quite large and I had to snap shots and work in a zoomed in view in order to deal with such small angles.

Spider, I have not looked into anything you have written at the moment, so I do not exactly follow what you are saying, but I will read up on all of your stuff.

I'm not really a instructor (doing a bit of that now though) but with all this hate talk about this method I figured I would throw a little something something up. I have been experimenting with this method for the past couple weeks and it seems to be working a lot better for me then ghost ball or feel was. This is my first examination of the math of why it works. I'll try to do some more when I read daves stuff.

I'll try to answer all of your questions tomorrow. And throw up those other diagrams that people are people are looking for.

I'll also throw up the laws I use for those dudes who are like "This is to far above my head", it's super easy and when I do looking at these crazy things will get a bit simpler.

Just a quick note as I was thinking about this on my parents roof. d' is the only thing that changes due to distance of shot or angle away from shot #3. I think you don't have to worry about it as long as b' remains the same. Let me look at that tomorrow and I'll get back to you dudes.
 
This is good; except, you will hit an angle where throw will break down this equation. This is where the outermost edge reference line is important. You must alter your perspective to address an edge that will offset this.

It's not important for thick hits per se; however, it becomes increasingly important based on the severity of the cut.

Recalculate based on a true half-ball pivot. You'll see your result is the same. Assuming your math is correct on this (I need to look everything over more before commenting further), Hal was right. I've never calculated your offset.

Also, you're assuming a 1-tip offset to the OB edge. This is really interesting. I discounted this method because the cue alignment wasn't parallel to the CTEL; however, maybe this is-- based on a later part of the arc? I mentioned something to this affect in the CTE thread a few hours ago.

Will study your work some more. With your eyes on the CTEL, with this math, you will come to a point where you miss balls - that I'm pretty sure of. Very impressive post. Check out my blog on adjusting your perspective to offset throw (outermost edge post).

Dave



Dave: Are you referring to CIT throw????SPF=randyg
 
Where's Dr. Dave?
Dr. Dave is taking a break from CTE discussions for a while to get some real work done.

However, mathematical and graphical approaches like this can always be debunked by claiming 3D visual perception, and/or an "air pivot" with the right amount of arc (AKA "effective pivot length"), and/or throw will make every shot go. No diagrams or equations can refute this logic.

Regards,
Dave
 
Dr. Dave is taking a break from CTE discussions for a while to get some real work done.

However, mathematical and graphical approaches like this can always be debunked by claiming 3D visual perception, and/or an "air pivot" with the right amount of arc (AKA "effective pivot length"), and/or throw will make every shot go. No diagrams or equations can refute this logic.

Regards,
Dave

Don't forget about dirty cloth, balls that aren't perfectly round, wind speed if playing outside and unexpected fluctuations in the Earth's magnetic field.

It's a wonder anybody ever makes a ball.....
 
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