CTE Aiming Systems - Fact or Fiction?

[dr_dave]

CTE Aiming Systems - Fact or Fiction? Includes Pro One (a variation of CTE)

CTE aiming systems are fact, and they do seem to work for some people.

FYI, some descriptions and opinions, along with links to good resources on the topic, can be found here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE​

Some of the reasons why CTE and other align-and-pivot systems "work" were summarized by Colin Colenso quite well. Check them out here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#benefits​

Regards,
Dave

 

[JB Cases]

I pretty much feel the same way and have been saying for a long time that the reason CTE works for some is that it just gets them more focused in on the aiming process. Certainly not because of any edges or pivoting.

But, people will believe what they want. At one time in my life I was the USAF spokesman at the Pentagon for Project Blue Book -- you know, the AF study into all the UFO sightings. It never ceased to amaze me how, no matter what the scientific evidence to the contrary was, just how much people wanted (or needed) to believe what they wanted to believe anyway. Even to this day, people who know my background will sidle up to me and say, "We got 'em, don't we. Area 51. Little guys. Reverse engineering..." And you can just tell they want to believe in it in the very worst way.

I always tell them that with the right amount of tequila, a hot tub, and a couple of blondes, I will tell them everything

Lou Figueroa
you gotta
give em hope

Of course it gets you "more focused" on the aiming process.

It also puts you on the right line.

The same line you would be on if you could perfectly see and line up to the invisible ghost ball every time.

The same line you would be on if you can see the teeny tiny contact point clearly every time.

Some of us know ourselves and our game well enough to know that we have always had problems with certain shots. We know well enough when we have learned something that IMPROVES our shotmaking and makes it more consistent.

We know well enough that there are shots which we formerly wouldn't even attempt due to our our own fears and limitations in our ability.

It not a religion. It's a series of steps.

Step 1. - Sight the center of the cueball to the edge of the object ball which is farthest AWAY from the pocket you want the object ball to go into.

Step 2. - Align your cue to the edge of the cue ball and put you bridge hand down.

Step 3 - Pivot your cue back to center and your bridge hand is ON THE RIGHT LINE to make the ball.

Simple right? Well this is all I am doing on every shot.

Ghost ball:

Step 1. - Draw an imaginary ball that is 2.25" in diameter on the pool table with your mind that is in line with the pocket you wish the object ball to go in.

Step 2. - aim the center of the cueball to the center of the imaginary ball.

Contact point:

Step 1. Draw an imaginary ball that is 2.25" in diameter on the pool table with your mind that is in line with the pocket you wish the object ball to go in. Note the contact point that the imaginary ball is resting against the real ball.

Keep your eyes locked on that teeny point.

Step 2. Come back to the cue ball and shoot it towards the imaginary ball but with your eyes locked on the contact point.

--------------------------------------------------------------

So of course with CTE I am FOCUSING better - BECAUSE I HAVE SOMETHING TANGIBLE TO FOCUS ON.

Of course I can draw all sorts of pretty diagrams that show the cueball inhabiting the space of an imaginary ball and those diagrams make perfect sense AND they also work on the pool table. However the PROBLEM comes up when you get to certain shots and it becomes increasingly difficult to IMAGINE the ball in the right spot with the right size all the time.

You can FOCUS REALLY REALLY hard on doing that perfectly and still FAIL a lot.

As opposed to another method which does NOT rely on imaginary balls and being able to see a teeny contact point on a small sphere over a distance of inches to 9 feet.

I think it's hilarious that you want to call us all fools Lou when we report that that our shotmaking has vastly improved by learning another method.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Imagine if a guy came on AZB and told us that his instructor had shown him a wonderful technique and that his pocketing has increased 200% but he couldn't tell us this technique because his instructor had sworn him to secrecy.

He'd be ridiculed and barbecued as expected - told that he was drinking kool-aid, fooling himself, subconsciously adjusting etc....

But what if he then revealed that the technique was Ghost Ball?

Then everyone would go oh alright, that makes sense that your pocketing would go up if you didn't know that technique before.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

My contention these past ten years is that these systems force the player to adopt a line of aim which their minds have trained them out of. This is WHY they can make shots that are incredible with seeming ease.

I contend that GHOST BALL aiming has POISONED millions of players into relying on estimation and flat out guessing.

CTE and like systems force the player to adopt the correct line of aim by using exact reference points that are easily visible.

Anyway, you can continue to speculate on the psychological aspects all you want to. I will focus my efforts on defining the physical aspects and HOPEFULLY I will be able to get something on video that makes it clear.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Of course it gets you "more focused" on the aiming process.

It also puts you on the right line.

The same line you would be on if you could perfectly see and line up to the invisible ghost ball every time.

The same line you would be on if you can see the teeny tiny contact point clearly every time.

Some of us know ourselves and our game well enough to know that we have always had problems with certain shots. We know well enough when we have learned something that IMPROVES our shotmaking and makes it more consistent.

We know well enough that there are shots which we formerly wouldn't even attempt due to our our own fears and limitations in our ability.

It not a religion. It's a series of steps.

Step 1. - Sight the center of the cueball to the edge of the object ball which is farthest AWAY from the pocket you want the object ball to go into.

Step 2. - Align your cue parallel to this line of sight and put you bridge hand down.

Step 3 - Pivot your cue back to center and your bridge hand is ON THE RIGHT LINE to make the ball.

Simple right? Well this is all I am doing on every shot.

Ghost ball:

Step 1. - Draw an imaginary ball that is 2.25" in diameter on the pool table with your mind that is in line with the pocket you wish the object ball to go in.

Step 2. - aim the center of the cueball to the center of the imaginary ball.

Contact point:

Step 1. Draw an imaginary ball that is 2.25" in diameter on the pool table with your mind that is in line with the pocket you wish the object ball to go in. Note the contact point that the imaginary ball is resting against the real ball.

Keep your eyes locked on that teeny point.

Step 2. Come back to the cue ball and shoot it towards the imaginary ball but with your eyes locked on the contact point.

--------------------------------------------------------------

So of course with CTE I am FOCUSING better - BECAUSE I HAVE SOMETHING TANGIBLE TO FOCUS ON.

Of course I can draw all sorts of pretty diagrams that show the cueball inhabiting the space of an imaginary ball and those diagrams make perfect sense AND they also work on the pool table. However the PROBLEM comes up when you get to certain shots and it becomes increasingly difficult to IMAGINE the ball in the right spot with the right size all the time.

You can FOCUS REALLY REALLY hard on doing that perfectly and still FAIL a lot.

As opposed to another method which does NOT rely on imaginary balls and being able to see a teeny contact point on a small sphere over a distance of inches to 9 feet.

I think it's hilarious that you want to call us all fools Lou when we report that that our shotmaking has vastly improved by learning another method.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Imagine if a guy came on AZB and told us that his instructor had shown him a wonderful technique and that his pocketing has increased 200% but he couldn't tell us this technique because his instructor had sworn him to secrecy.

He'd be ridiculed and barbecued as expected - told that he was drinking kool-aid, fooling himself, subconsciously adjusting etc....

But what if he then revealed that the technique was Ghost Ball?

Then everyone would go oh alright, that makes sense that your pocketing would go up if you didn't know that technique before.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

My contention these past ten years is that these systems force the player to adopt a line of aim which their minds have trained them out of. This is WHY they can make shots that are incredible with seeming ease.

I contend that GHOST BALL aiming has POISONED millions of players into relying on estimation and flat out guessing.

CTE and like systems force the player to adopt the correct line of aim by using exact reference points that are easily visible.

Anyway, you can continue to speculate on the psychological aspects all you want to. I will focus my efforts on defining the physical aspects and HOPEFULLY I will be able to get something on video that makes it clear.

Thanks for the info....John.

 

[JB Cases]

I'm getting used to people saying "don't call me/him a liar" every time I question something CTE related. It's cool.

Stan's probably a good guy but sometimes our PR announcements don't match our private reasons. Little white lies are a part of life. Did you also make sure to scold the guy who suggested that stan put it on hold because Hal didn't want it released?

If this thing is as good AS CLAIMED, there's no way he doesn't make a bucket of cash from a well-done video explaining it. We had plenty of people jumping on that thread saying "sign me up".

Really Matt?

It amazes me when you want to pick apart every little statement made and yet you make a blanket statement like this;

"If this thing is as good AS CLAIMED, there's no way he doesn't make a bucket of cash from a well-done video explaining it."

Why don't you ask Joe Tucker or Bob Henning or Freddy Bentivegna if they have made "boatloads of cash" from their excellent videos and books?

We had like 20 or so people signed up for the video - we don't know WHY Stan canceled it.

Your reasoning makes no sense. For one thing IF Pro1(CTE) is as good as Stan says it is then it's a good business decision to charge $250 a person to give away the information rather then $39 a video which will probably only sell a few hundred copies and be pirated anyway.

From a purely business standpoint it's a huge investment of time to try and make a video with attendant diagrams (for those of you who can't live without them) and editing that explains clearly what is far easier to explain in person.

I learned when giving jump lessons that each person is different in both the ability that they bring to the table AND in their cognitive ability to understand concepts. I had to develop many ways of teaching the same lesson to reach everyone I came across. After several years I can now instantly adapt my instruction to the student's level.

Trying to do this on video however is nearly impossible because there is no interaction with the viewer. So you have to map it out very very carefully to go for the lowest common denominator and even then it's not going to be easily understood by everyone who sees it.

So please think before you speak in this regard. You clearly have no idea what it takes to produce a world class video in this respect.

Hal's biggest admonition to all of us who learned from him was to be wary of spreading inaccurate information. It's hard to write up a set of instructions and have you "get it" based on the written word.

Instead of condemning those who have tried you should applaud them. Obviously they have something that they feel is valuable enough to risk their reputations and to devote their time and effort to.

If we were all smart we'd not say a freaking word about CTE on these forums and just play. We would not want anyone else to know that it even exists.

But we are all good people who want to share something we learned which is game changing for us. We just don't know how to make it easy for you to get when it's so easy to show you on the table. Sorry. My suggestion is that if you really want to learn it and stop the backhanded slaps to me and others you save up and buy a bus ticket to Dave Segal's house and knock on the door with flowers and chocolate.

Or show up at Stan's place with $245 and five hours of time.

Or continue to write a million words knocking it. Your choice.

 

[themack]

I would say that it is a fact that CTE is an aiming system. I would say it is fiction that by using CTE you can just go up and pocket any ball. If this were true nobody would ever miss. It has been proven that lining up with this system on certain angle shots would not go. The people that say they do go make an adjustment before they shoot. They just don't realize they make an adjustment, or won't admit it. If using an aiming system helps people pocket balls then good for them, but i would never want to rely on a system and hope its on over my own eye and just knowing where to hit the ball from shooting it so many times.

When you see a good player go up and pocket balls like its nothing, they just know where to hit the ball, and how to see it. Probably a system is good when you are learning to get an idea where to hit the ball.

 

[JB Cases]

I would say that it is a fact that CTE is an aiming system. I would say it is fiction that by using CTE you can just go up and pocket any ball. If this were true nobody would ever miss. It has been proven that lining up with this system on certain angle shots would not go. The people that say they do go make an adjustment before they shoot. They just don't realize they make an adjustment, or won't admit it. If using an aiming system helps people pocket balls then good for them, but i would never want to rely on a system and hope its on over my own eye and just knowing where to hit the ball from shooting it so many times.

When you see a good player go up and pocket balls like its nothing, they just know where to hit the ball, and how to see it. Probably a system is good when you are learning to get an idea where to hit the ball.

First of all no one can be perfectly aligned all the time. We all have different depth perceptions. You may think that you are sighting to the edge when in fact you are just to the inside or half a tip more to the outside.

You might put hand down in the wrong place thinking that you are in the right place.

This is where PRACTICE comes in.

Ghost Ball is a geometrically perfect system. It works. If everyone were able to implement it perfectly no one would ever miss.

However the fact that there are plenty of Ghost Ball helper devices out there from pieces of paper to laser devices which sit over the ball and project a red circle on the table are clear testament to the fact that many people are NOT able to implement ghost ball as easily as the concept is explained.

I am telling you that I will swear on a stack of Willie Mosconi's autobiographies that I am NOT estimating and guessing when I use CTE.

I am lining up ONE WAY on all shots. ONE WAY.

Now I can already see that I have to spend some time training my perception because there are a few shots where my initial sighting is not putting me on the line - these are mostly down table shots.

However IF I go back to the system I learned from Hal ten years ago I make those balls easily. WHY? Because I have practiced enough with the other system that my eyes find the proper reference points in a heartbeat.

Well, look I am done with this for now. I can argue the pro side of this all day and it doesn't make a difference because I can't point to a diagram that spoon feeds people.

Like Lou says people want to believe what they want to believe and that is true for both sides. You don't want to believe that there is something else that makes it easier then don't.

Most three cushion players will tell you that they learned systems when starting out and now it's just part of them with out thinking about it.

You can trust your "eyes" all you want but when your eyes are wrong then you will never train them to experience and learn what the right line is.

 

[themack]

Ok. Maybe i shouldn't have said it the way I did. I should have said it's hard for me to believe that somebody could just pocket any ball using that system. So i looked a little online to find some videos, and i was looking for shots where sidespin is used. In reality almost every shot has some kind of sidespin on it. I didn't see any demo shots like this. Lets say you are shooting a long shot with high inside english. I know for me using the feel system i aim the ball completely different than center ball. Does it work the same with CTE?

 

[JB Cases]

Ok. Maybe i shouldn't have said it the way I did. I should have said it's hard for me to believe that somebody could just pocket any ball using that system. So i looked a little online to find some videos, and i was looking for shots where sidespin is used. In reality almost every shot has some kind of sidespin on it. I didn't see any demo shots like this. Lets say you are shooting a long shot with high inside english. I know for me using the feel system i aim the ball completely different than center ball. Does it work the same with CTE?

look up my videos on youtube

my user name is jbideastoo

I show you how I use Back Hand English.

when I use CTE I apply sidespin using BHE and it works. The way that you aim is called SHIFTED ENGLISH which means that you estimate how much you need to shift your cue in order to adjust for deflection.

I will do a little video today showing CTE and Spin. I use CTE combined with BHE to apply spin.

 

[Poolplaya9]

It seems those willing to share can't explain it fully and those who know won't tell.

There is a good reason for that. The ones that are willing to share usually don't even fully know or understand the CTE based systems, and in the very few cases where they do, and they still believe in them anyway, they just aren't intelligent enough to spot an obvious scam and would be the same people to believe that some snake oil is the cure for cancer.

The ones that do know the CTE bases systems, but are not willing to publicly share the details, are the ones that know full well that it is a total sham that does not work the way that is being claimed (they know that you are still making intuition or experience based adjustments for aiming just like you do when not using any sort of "system"). They don't want to be publicly exposed and humiliated after the smart people publicly prove the system wrong beyond all doubt, so they just refuse to give out all of the details so that they don't get exposed. They cover the fact that they systems don't work with typical claims along the lines of "well you just don't believe in the system because you don't know all the details," and then they cover their refusal to give those details with an excuse that is usually something along the lines of "well I had to figure it out on my own so I'm going to make you have figure it out on your own too--this is top secret stuff here."

The real truth is that they are able to be much more effective scamming the weak minded in private, but as soon as they make all the details of their scam public, they know they will be exposed for the frauds that they are (with no excuses left to use) and their gig will be up and that is a chance they are not willing to take.

For the record, I DO think there are some benefits to the CTE systems, particularly for weaker players, but the benefits are just things like a placebo effect, or it gets you in the general area of aim and you subconsciously adjust from there, or probably the biggest factor, it forces you to bear down and concentrate more which in turns makes your experience based, or intuition based, aiming more accurate (even if you are making those aiming adjustments subconciously, they ARE occuring). The systems cannot, do not, and will not ever work in the way that is being claimed.

 

[JB Cases]

There is a good reason for that. The ones that are willing to share usually don't even fully know or understand the CTE based systems, and in the very few cases where they do, and they still believe in them anyway, they just aren't intelligent enough to spot an obvious scam and would be the same people to believe that some snake oil is the cure for cancer.

The ones that do know the CTE bases systems, but are not willing to publicly share the details, are the ones that know full well that it is a total sham that does not work the way that is being claimed (they know that you are still making intuition or experience based adjustments for aiming just like you do when not using any sort of "system"). They don't want to be publicly exposed and humiliated after the smart people publicly prove the system wrong beyond all doubt, so they just refuse to give out all of the details so that they don't get exposed. They cover the fact that they systems don't work with typical claims along the lines of "well you just don't believe in the system because you don't know all the details," and then they cover their refusal to give those details with an excuse that is usually something along the lines of "well I had to figure it out on my own so I'm going to make you have figure it out on your own too--this is top secret stuff here."

The real truth is that they are able to be much more effective scamming the weak minded in private, but as soon as they make all the details of their scam public, they know they will be exposed for the frauds that they are (with no excuses left to use) and their gig will be up and that is a chance they are not willing to take.

For the record, I DO think there are some benefits to the CTE systems, particularly for weaker players, but the benefits are just things like a placebo effect, or it gets you in the general area of aim and you subconsciously adjust from there, or probably the biggest factor, it forces you to bear down and concentrate more which in turns makes your experience based, or intuition based, aiming more accurate (even if you are making those aiming adjustments subconciously, they ARE occuring). The systems cannot, do not, and will not ever work in the way that is being claimed.

What way is that?

The real truth is that they work.

Here are a few testimonials from the "particularly weaker players" about CTE/Pro1;

I learned the PRO ONE aiming system from Stan Shuffett about 1 year ago. I successfully used PRO ONE in the 2008 Derby City Classic 9-Ball division getting a top 10 finish. I recently used the system getting wins at 2 Seminole Florida Pro Tour events. .

Stevie Moore
2008 Winner of the Florida Pro Tour Steve Mizerak Championship





Before I took instruction from Stan I totally went by feel when I was aiming my shots. During my foundation course with Stan, I learned this amazing aiming system--PRO ONE. The pressure that I once felt with aiming has disappeared. PRO ONE has given me the confidence to pocket balls more easily. I feel like everything I shoot at is supposed to go. I recommend PRO ONE to any player who is serious about winning!

Matt Krah 2006 UPA Tour Rookie of the Year
Blaze 9-Ball Tour Player of the Year





Hi Stan,
Just wanted to let you know that I took first place in a tough Blaze event in New Jersey yesterday. I won twice against a very strong player, 7-2, 7-1, in the finals. Amazingly this was my first event I played in since working with you and applying the things you showed me!! I cant thank you enough for the things you taught me. I have been using PRO ONE with ease and everyone is telling me how disciplined I look on the table. Also, my break is working wonderfully and really making my run outs much easier.

Thanks again. Talk to you soon!

Matt Krah

 

[Poolplaya9]

What way is that?

The real truth is that they work.

Here are a few testimonials from the "particularly weaker players" about CTE/Pro1;

I learned the PRO ONE aiming system from Stan Shuffett about 1 year ago. I successfully used PRO ONE in the 2008 Derby City Classic 9-Ball division getting a top 10 finish. I recently used the system getting wins at 2 Seminole Florida Pro Tour events. .

Stevie Moore
2008 Winner of the Florida Pro Tour Steve Mizerak Championship





Before I took instruction from Stan I totally went by feel when I was aiming my shots. During my foundation course with Stan, I learned this amazing aiming system--PRO ONE. The pressure that I once felt with aiming has disappeared. PRO ONE has given me the confidence to pocket balls more easily. I feel like everything I shoot at is supposed to go. I recommend PRO ONE to any player who is serious about winning!

Matt Krah 2006 UPA Tour Rookie of the Year
Blaze 9-Ball Tour Player of the Year





Hi Stan,
Just wanted to let you know that I took first place in a tough Blaze event in New Jersey yesterday. I won twice against a very strong player, 7-2, 7-1, in the finals. Amazingly this was my first event I played in since working with you and applying the things you showed me!! I cant thank you enough for the things you taught me. I have been using PRO ONE with ease and everyone is telling me how disciplined I look on the table. Also, my break is working wonderfully and really making my run outs much easier.

Thanks again. Talk to you soon!

Matt Krah

Reread what I wrote. I never said that these systems never helped anybody in any way at all. I said that this and the similar systems do not, cannot, and will not ever work in the way that is claimed, and that is an absolute provable fact.

These systems can be of benefit to certain people because of placebo effect, or by getting you in the general aiming vicinity that is a starting point that is easier for some people to adjust from using their experience and intuition, and/or the fact that it forces an increased focus and concentration on the object ball and the angle of the shot, which in turn makes your adjusted intuition or experience based aiming even more accurate. The latter is probably the most significant factor for those that see any improvement.

Another way of putting it is that the system itself does not work, but when you are using it you are unintentionally doing some things that do actually help (like focusing more on the object ball and bearing down harder).

 

[JAW725]

There is a good reason for that. The ones that are willing to share usually don't even fully know or understand the CTE based systems, and in the very few cases where they do, and they still believe in them anyway, they just aren't intelligent enough to spot an obvious scam and would be the same people to believe that some snake oil is the cure for cancer.

The ones that do know the CTE bases systems, but are not willing to publicly share the details, are the ones that know full well that it is a total sham that does not work the way that is being claimed (they know that you are still making intuition or experience based adjustments for aiming just like you do when not using any sort of "system"). They don't want to be publicly exposed and humiliated after the smart people publicly prove the system wrong beyond all doubt, so they just refuse to give out all of the details so that they don't get exposed. They cover the fact that they systems don't work with typical claims along the lines of "well you just don't believe in the system because you don't know all the details," and then they cover their refusal to give those details with an excuse that is usually something along the lines of "well I had to figure it out on my own so I'm going to make you have figure it out on your own too--this is top secret stuff here."

The real truth is that they are able to be much more effective scamming the weak minded in private, but as soon as they make all the details of their scam public, they know they will be exposed for the frauds that they are (with no excuses left to use) and their gig will be up and that is a chance they are not willing to take.

For the record, I DO think there are some benefits to the CTE systems, particularly for weaker players, but the benefits are just things like a placebo effect, or it gets you in the general area of aim and you subconsciously adjust from there, or probably the biggest factor, it forces you to bear down and concentrate more which in turns makes your experience based, or intuition based, aiming more accurate (even if you are making those aiming adjustments subconciously, they ARE occuring). The systems cannot, do not, and will not ever work in the way that is being claimed.

What a ridiculous post. I wonder how many more good people you can insult.

 

[Thunderball]

I've learned to keep in open mind about this kinda thing...especially on this forum.

There are some dam strong players who are serious advocates of this process...thats good enough me to assume there must be something to it, even if it is difficult to explain.

Quick story: I read these forums for a long time and kept reading about BHE or "back hand english". I'd ask, get answers and still be confused lol. Dam tough to explain in clear text,especially if the concept is completely unfamiliar to the reader.

Anyhow, someone (spidey I think) posted a video and VIOLA! I "got it". Went to the table and boom, I had it.
I have a good friend who pockets ok, but never comes off of the vertical center line of the cb. Any left or right was a miss in the making. In 10 minutes he was moving the cb like he had never before based on my simple understanding of BHE. Quite remarkable actually.

My point is, just cause you don't "get it" doesn't mean it's not gettable. Only that the information you have now is to incomplete to allow for an absolute understanding. I, for one, look forward to finally taking the approach to the table. I too, still don't quite "get it" yet, but I'm still listening.

 

[chevybob20]

Ok. Maybe i shouldn't have said it the way I did. I should have said it's hard for me to believe that somebody could just pocket any ball using that system. So i looked a little online to find some videos, and i was looking for shots where sidespin is used. In reality almost every shot has some kind of sidespin on it. I didn't see any demo shots like this. Lets say you are shooting a long shot with high inside english. I know for me using the feel system i aim the ball completely different than center ball. Does it work the same with CTE?

Land with your english when you slide into position. Remember, this is not a math system. I made the mistake of thinking it was.

 

[Jal]

Reread what I wrote. I never said that these systems never helped anybody in any way at all. I said that this and the similar systems do not, cannot, and will not ever work in the way that is claimed, and that is an absolute provable fact.

These systems can be of benefit to certain people because of placebo effect, or by getting you in the general aiming vicinity that is a starting point that is easier for some people to adjust from using their experience and intuition, and/or the fact that it forces an increased focus and concentration on the object ball and the angle of the shot, which in turn makes your adjusted intuition or experience based aiming even more accurate. The latter is probably the most significant factor for those that see any improvement.

Another way of putting it is that the system itself does not work, but when you are using it you are unintentionally doing some things that do actually help (like focusing more on the object ball and bearing down harder).

Similar points have been made by others, especially Colin Colenso, Mike Page and Patrick Johnson. My compliments for stating them so directly and forcefully.

If we could ever get past the issue of whether or not these systems are exact, or even close enough for your typical shot (which as you well know, are not), maybe we could focus in on the potentially helpful features that you just outlined.

Jim

 

[JB Cases]

Reread what I wrote. I never said that these systems never helped anybody in any way at all. I said that this and the similar systems do not, cannot, and will not ever work in the way that is claimed, and that is an absolute provable fact.

These systems can be of benefit to certain people because of placebo effect, or by getting you in the general aiming vicinity that is a starting point that is easier for some people to adjust from using their experience and intuition, and/or the fact that it forces an increased focus and concentration on the object ball and the angle of the shot, which in turn makes your adjusted intuition or experience based aiming even more accurate. The latter is probably the most significant factor for those that see any improvement.

Another way of putting it is that the system itself does not work, but when you are using it you are unintentionally doing some things that do actually help (like focusing more on the object ball and bearing down harder).

Well your theory of how something works and 25cts won't buy you a cup of coffee.

The system works.

Using CTE I can make shots consistently that I never could make consistently before.

Not only that I can make shots that I normally wouldn't even consider trying before.

So you can theorize all day long on what you think is going on.

The fact is that they work and someday some one will make a definitive video complete with diagrams showing the physical reasons why they work.

You THINK that you know how CTE works and therefore you are using the Ghost Ball framework to disprove something that you don't even know.

I don't KNOW 100% YET how CTE works from a math/geometry standpoint but I know that it works from a practical standpoint.

You said it's a benefit only to 'weaker players' and I provided you quotes from two VERY STRONG players who extoll the benefits to them.

These two players were ALREADY STRONG before learning Pro1(CTE).

I think it's pretty clear that Landon Shuffet is also a very strong player and I would guess it's safe to assume that he is using Pro1.

Joey A is a pretty good player himself. He is also objective and posted his experiences.

The fact is that CTE does IN FACT work for any shot on the table that is going directly into a pocket.

That's right ANY SHOT that is physically makeable can be made with CTE.

There I said it.

Using CTE as the ONLY method to approach the shot, doing exactly the steps as instructed ANY SHOT on the table can be made. No adjustments, no fiddling, no fidgeting, no second guessing.

The result is that the CTE user can now make shots that they didn't even think were possible and certainly one that they know were improbable.

A placebo does not confer more ability. Sorry doesn't work that way. You don't suddenly jump from a C to an A player's shotmaking ability by virtue of a placebo. That would be like telling a third class runner that you gave him a pill that would make him faster and he goes out and tries to beat the world champion. Doesn't work that way. Results speak for themselves.

Everyone who learns CTE the RIGHT WAY has the same experience. All of us. We know full well what our ability is and where our weaknesses lie when it comes to pocketing balls. So we are fully aware of how to judge when that ability increases.

It just frustrates the hell out of those of you who won't even try it that some of us are getting WAY MORE ENJOYMENT out of playing pool now that we can make more shots.

As Matt Krah said, CTE takes all the fear away.

 

[JB Cases]

Similar points have been made by others, especially Colin Colenso, Mike Page and Patrick Johnson. My compliments for stating them so directly and forcefully.

If we could ever get past the issue of whether or not these systems are exact, or even close enough for your typical shot (which as you well know, are not), maybe we could focus in on the potentially helpful features that you just outlined.

Jim

And those points are categorically wrong.

As you are are also wrong. We don't need to get past anything. We who use CTE know that it works.

You show me a shot - I use CTE to make it. It's up to you to prove that I didn't use what I consciously said I did if it's your intention to prove that I couldn't have possibly made the ball using the steps I said I used.

I don't really understand why you or Dave Alicatore or Pat Johnson doesn't get on a table and prove it. Show us that you know how to do CTE and then prove where it doesn't work.

But you won't do that. After all these years your side thinks it's just as plain as day that it doesn't work and so no need to prove it.

Now you are all about the "psychology" behind it.

Anyway, I will put up my little CTE videos and you can feel free to dissect them. Maybe you can point out the subconscious adjustments. I promise to show you how I line up and you can explain away the shots all you want to. For those who are interested in learning instead of disproving then maybe my videos will be helpful to them.

I am sure that once they start making more shots then they won't much care about being able to do the math and graphs to explain why it works.

 

[Thunderball]

Step 1. - Sight the center of the cueball to the edge of the object ball which is farthest AWAY from the pocket you want the object ball to go into.

This is clear enough.

Step 2. - Align your cue to the edge of the cue ball and put you bridge hand down.

Which edge? Genuinely confused on this point. The edge of the cue ball is 360 degrees. Im guessing the edge is relative to the edge chosen on the ob as explained in step one? How so? same one or oppisite?

Step 3 - Pivot your cue back to center and your bridge hand is ON THE RIGHT LINE to make the ball.

pivot the back hand only I assume since the bridge is set in step two? and to be clear "back to center" means center ball hit?

Thanks for any input JB. I'd like to fool around with this some tomorrow if I can get a base line idea of where to start.

 

[Jaden]

I don't know what CTE is. never had it explained to me...

I did in my trials and tribulations try a technique that is similar in that I can't for the life of me figure out how it works, I can't get the geometry right on paper, but it does work.

It's just putting an imaginary box around the OB while standing directly behind it in line with the pocket, then looking at the inside line on the imaginary box closest to you and keeping that line in your minds eye, shifting around to where the CB is and lining up the inside edge of the CB with the point on the OB where that line was at. Then parallel shifting to center CB.

It's really difficult to describe without showing it, and the geometry doesn't add up right on paper. I honestly didn't have a clue how it was working, it has to have something to do with perception and shifting of angles of perspective, but it does work.

I don't use any method but feel in competition any more except parallel lines when I can't seem to get in stroke, but it's good to know these methods for ironing out inconsistencies in your stroke.

You have to be able to deduce what's causing you to miss to be able to work on remedying the problems.

Personally I think the best way is to have an instructor do stroke analysis for you, but there are ways of making yourself perform better by learning methods to practice with and to help develop proper feel.

We all have a journey on the road to our best pool and there are many paths to the top of the moutain.

Take care,

Jaden

 

[Poolplaya9]

Similar points have been made by others, especially Colin Colenso, Mike Page and Patrick Johnson. My compliments for stating them so directly and forcefully.

If we could ever get past the issue of whether or not these systems are exact, or even close enough for your typical shot (which as you well know, are not), maybe we could focus in on the potentially helpful features that you just outlined.

Jim

I agree, but it won't ever happen because it will cost the proponents money, "prestige" (in the eyes of the misinformed), or their pride when they have to admit that they had bought into nonsense.

I think I can speak for all of us who know that these systems do not physically work, that our problem is only with the false claims and lies that are made, not with people using and benefitting from the systems for reasons that are truthful. If the proponents of these systems would only stop lying and just say "hey, try this system, it gets you in the general aim vicinity and from there you adjust by feel, and because of this starting reference point, some people find it easier than aiming solely from scratch with no reference and they gain some benefit from doing it this way."

Or they could say "hey, try this system because when you use it to get in the general aiming vicinity for your shot, your increased focus on the object ball and on the angle of the shots will result in you making better aiming adjustments by feel because of this increased focus, and also results in using a better stroke because you are bearing down harder and concentrating harder, and for some people who were lacking in these things it can cause your pocketing percentage to go up."

Or they could say "try this system even though it is complete garbage and has no scientific, mathematical, or physical validity whatsoever, and in fact is completely invalid, but the fact that you are trying it and using it will sometimes cause a placebo effect that will benefit your shotmaking anyway."

The problem is they can't tell the truth, because then they have nothing to sell, or nothing to make themselves look knowledgable or cool for possessing this "secret" and "mysterious" information. They know that most people would not pay for this "knowledge" if they knew the truth because they would just be thinkng, "well hell, if I need a starting reference point, I will just ask myself if my shot is closest to a edge, quarter, half, three quarter, or full ball hit, and then I will adjust my aim by feel from there, because the "system" effectively has the same lack of precision anyway, so I can just make up any type of system that gets me close and there is no need for me to buy anything."

Or they would say, "for a placebo effect, I could just tell myself that licking my lips before every shot will improve my performance, so there is no need to buy anything."

Or they would say, "for increased focus I can just concentrate harder on the spot I need to hit the ball, which is what you do when you are playing be feel anyway, so I just need to concentrate harder, so no need to buy anything."

That's why proponents can't tell the truth, because then their "secret" information suddenly doesn't look so valuable any more when exposed for what it really is.