CTE Aiming Systems - Fact or Fiction?

[JB Cases]

JB: we always come down to "I can't make an opinion on it until I have CTE down pat".

Well, sometimes we offer opinions without knowing for sure. Otherwise we'd all be agnostics and nobody would talk about the economy or even the weather.

I have to ask fair [yes, even skeptical] questions about CTE in the course of trying to learn it... Like when I asked dave how he can possibly claim a system works without knowing where the pocket is. I don't need to know CTE inside and out to know that's wrong. I also don't need to know it to know hal was wrong to state all top pros use it.

When I come up against things that come across as completely ridiculous, I don't hold back when saying so.

That may seem insulting and rude, but it insults ME that anyone would try to sneak claims like that by intelligent human beings. You may feel this is an overreaction, but some of this stuff literally insults my intelligence, so that's why I choose to call it out in ways that must seem harsh to you.

I will resist the urge to post about CTE - not because you've sold me on the idea that I'm not qualified to talk about it, but because it's just tiring butting heads over the subject. The last time I got into lots of back-and-forth arguing like this, I dropped off the AZB radar for half a year or more.

If you make a video, I'd be glad to see it. Obviously it's your life, your timeframe, and you can make it how you want. The point you made about all the time I waste arguing on the internet, when I could have just learned it by now? It applies to you too. Maybe to dave, I've seen him post videos on youtube. Either of you could have already made a pretty comprehensive video without spending a dime, using existing equipment and the internet, and only investing the time you've spent debating it.

Ok, time to cold turkey the CTE threads and watch efren kick roberto's ass.

Not quite.

We come from different places. While I am typing this I am also carrying on two other conversations one with a colleague and one with a customer. I am also in the midst of designing two new cases.

I can't just get up and go to the table and make a comprehensive video about CTE. However over lunch I did do a little practice video to try and organize my thoughts and presentation of how it works.

And yes, you can offer your opinion all you want to, you can jump on any bandwagon you choose to. However if you are wanting to get something from someone else who has it then maybe withholding your opinion accusing them of being liars and frauds (in not so many words) might be the way to go.

You're right, no one NEEDS to actually know anything about the subject matter to offer an opinion. I concede that point. So feel free to opine all you want on how something works that you don't know how to do.

At least you are not doing it from a position of authority like Dave Alciatore is.

And actually I echo your sentiment about dropping out of AZ for longer. Your attitude among others makes me not give a shit about being here and defending people who shouldn't need any defense.

I am real close to doing the same thing. I know what I know and am fully cognizant of where my game is at and I don't need to have every statement dissected by someone who can't do what I can do. I don't need people like you and others telling me that I am not in control of my thoughts and that I am somehow magically making balls that I couldn't before due to some form of self-hypnosis.

Because if you can attribute the made shots to "subconscious adjustment" then what about the missed shots? My subconscious adjusted the wrong way?

That's an easy and convenient answer isn't it?

 

[jmurphy]

Not quite.

We come from different places. While I am typing this I am also carrying on two other conversations one with a colleague and one with a customer. I am also in the midst of designing two new cases.

I can't just get up and go to the table and make a comprehensive video about CTE. However over lunch I did do a little practice video to try and organize my thoughts and presentation of how it works.

And yes, you can offer your opinion all you want to, you can jump on any bandwagon you choose to. However if you are wanting to get something from someone else who has it then maybe withholding your opinion accusing them of being liars and frauds (in not so many words) might be the way to go.

You're right, no one NEEDS to actually know anything about the subject matter to offer an opinion. I concede that point. So feel free to opine all you want on how something works that you don't know how to do.

At least you are not doing it from a position of authority like Dave Alciatore is.

And actually I echo your sentiment about dropping out of AZ for longer. Your attitude among others makes me not give a shit about being here and defending people who shouldn't need any defense.

I am real close to doing the same thing. I know what I know and am fully cognizant of where my game is at and I don't need to have every statement dissected by someone who can't do what I can do. I don't need people like you and others telling me that I am not in control of my thoughts and that I am somehow magically making balls that I couldn't before due to some form of self-hypnosis.

Because if you can attribute the made shots to "subconscious adjustment" then what about the missed shots? My subconscious adjusted the wrong way?

That's an easy and convenient answer isn't it?

I hope one of those cases is mine :thumbup:
Sorry I could not resist

 

[dr_dave]

I fully understand the problem. If I try to describe Ghost Ball to my wife in words she looks at me with a blank stare. If I try to describe it to my wife using the written word she reads it and her eyes glaze over.

If I take her to the table and show it to her then she gets it immediately

But the ghost ball method CAN easily be described with words, illustrations, and simple video demonstrations. Here are some examples:

ghost-ball aiming method and drill
NV 3.1 - Practicing contact point and ghost ball visualization
NV 3.2 - Using the cue to help visualize the impact and aiming lines
NV B.3 - Mike Page's aiming video (part 1, part 2)​

Much more info can be found here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#ghost​

Also, most of the other "aiming systems" also contain simple illustrations and description that clearly explain how the systems work "in principle."

The best description of the seemingly most widely accepted version of CTE I've seen so far is from Spidey's blog:

BASIC CTE PIVOTS (as taught by Hal Houle):

For thick cuts: Your cue is parallel to the CTEL with your tip pointing at the outside edge of the CB (the edge of the CB that’s farthest from the pocket). You then pivot your tip towards the pocket until it reaches CB center.

For thin cuts: Your cue is parallel to the CTEL with your tip pointing at the inside edge of the CB (the side of the CB that’s closest to the pocket). You then pivot your tip away from the pocket until it reaches CB center.

If you’re not sure which side to pivot from, only one will work. One will look right – the other will not.

For straight-ins: It doesn’t matter which side of the CB you address, just make sure you perform a thick-cut pivot.​

Spidey also has a lot of discussion on his blog about how to determine the "outermost edge" using the "object ball circle" to set the "pre-pivot alignment," and how to use the "shot circle" to judge the "effective pivot length" (AKA "pivot arc") needed for an "air pivot" or "mechanical pivot." This stuff sounds fancy, complicated, and impressive, but it still doesn't fully or clearly explain how CTE works "in principle" for a wide range of shots, for the reasons described and illustrated here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE​

Before you or others respond or react, please read through and think about Spidey's entire blog, and then read through and think about all of the diagrams, explanations, articles, and examples documented here. After doing this, I think it should be clear that we still don't have a complete and clear description, illustration, or demonstration of how CTE works "in principle" for a wide range of shots. Now, we have lots of anecdotes and videos showing people making lots of shots reportedly using CTE, but that can be done for any "aiming system" with a good shot-maker.

What we are still missing is a complete and clear description of a version of CTE that works "in principle." We all know it can work well "in practice" (if you are good with establishing the exact alignment and creating the exact pivot arc needed for each shot based on the amount of cut required).

All aiming systems can be made to work "in practice," but only some make sense "in principle." Also, most aiming systems share most of the benefits offered by the align-and-pivot approaches.

Regards,
Dave

 

[ThePoliteSniper]

I just saw this great talk on Patient Problem Solving - you should watch it to understand the difference between wanting to be spoon fed the answer as opposed to discovering it. Here you go, it's by Dan Meyer http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_meyer_math_curriculum_makeover.html

I am not going to spoon feed you the answer here for several reasons, one is that I can't right now. Two is that without knowing what your ability and cognizance is I have no idea how you will interpret that information.

As evidenced by your questions here, you asked the wrong ones. With what I gave you coupled with what else is out there about CTE you should be able to get it. However I very much doubt that you compiled that information and took it to the table. Because if you had then I have no doubt you would have asked the right questions.

As for your sarcastic jibe with my steps I suppose that it's a good time to remind you of this appropriate quote, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

In other words it's what you don't know that seems like magic. When you know how it works then it's clear as day.

I get a lot of compliments on my banking. Whenever I play I am always getting the tap tap taps and the snaps for making nice bank shots - especially on the last few balls when it's critical. What my opponents and the onlookers don't now is that I have a system for banking. It works great and my banking percentages are higher than average because of it. The reason that the onlookers and my opponents are clapping is because they know that their own ability to bank consistently is much lower and so to them it's amazing to see a guy step up to the table and whack banks shots in like they are hangers. They can't tell I am using a system, it happens so fast that it looks completely natural.

I also get compliments on my kick shots. I use the double the distance method to figure them. It's obvious to everyone that I am measuring them when I kick. Once in a while someone will ask me what I am doing and I will show them. They thank me for it afterward.

So think about Arthur Clarke's words and consider that there is a piece of the puzzle that you don't know rather than trying to invalidate the system based on the parts that you do know (or think you know).

I can't believe you did that, JB! You sound exactly like SpiderWebComm.

No, YOU have the formula called CTE. I want to derive the formula and understand how it's supposed to work. I put the word "magic" there to express exactly what you said, that there is a part of CTE that is not explained. And everytime someone asks for it you are avoiding the question and talk about spoon feeding. What has anything of this to do with the subject?
At least you were being honest, that you are not able to answer. I accept that. But don't expect us then to accept CTE. If it works, it has to be explainable.
I was really ready to illustrate the system as I see is and point out where my problem is and why, so that you can understand it in detail. But I'm wondering if I'm not wasting my time again.

You said, I asked the wrong question. Please point out which question and explain why. What would be the right question?

It's not that I haven't tried CTE at the pool table. But I can only apply what I know. I found it to be hindering and inaccurate.

 

[JB Cases]

Dave,

It's not in debate that ghost ball can be easily documented in 2d form. Clearly that's why it is the prevalent method used by authors such as yourself to describe aiming.

I know what Dave Segal's blog says. I am wondering where your description of CTE is?

You said that you spent time on the phone with Hal so what he tell you? Forget about Dave's or Stan's or any one else's CTE descriptions, what did you talk to Hal about?

The way that CTE works IN PRINCIPLE is that it guides your bridge hand to the only aiming line that works to make the shot.

That much HAS been established.

What is in debate by you is exactly how it works IN PRACTICE.

The best you can come up with is that it's all subconscious adjustment.

I have no doubt that someone will come up with some nice and easy diagrams to explain why CTE works.

What I don't get is why you don't take the anecdotal evidence as truth from the people who are reporting success with CTE and learn what they know? Why the assumption and insinuation that they are lying?

I mean that is your point when you say that any good shot maker can make a video claiming to use any system isn't it? So if I make a video and claim to use CTE for every shot then I am lying?

I made a video where I deliberately aimed a HALF BALL sighting on all the shots and shot center ball. I made most of the shots from all positions including some very thin cuts. It's there on video for your review.

When I used ghost ball I can't make those thin cuts. Now either I am completely self-deluded and subconsciously adjusting, or I am flat out lying about where I am aiming, or there is some sort of perception thing with the half-ball sighting that allows for a wide range of shots to be made using the half-ball sighting. I am not an engineer like you. I just did the experiment to see what would happen and I showed the results on video.

Creedo to his credit took the time to do som frame by frame analysis and found that my final stick line was not always through the center of the cueball on what should be the half ball sighting line. Great so I can see that there is something happening there which is different than what I think is happening. That's called a beginning.

So I can accept that by using a half-ball sighting and getting down on the line that SHOULD BE straight through the cue ball I am adjusting to the correct line. Why can I accept that?

Well it's because I have used two other systems for so long that now my body is tuned to the correct line. And also upon reading about the pivot and what it is I found that I am automatically doing a sort of air pivot when I shoot anyway. Maybe this is a result of the systems I use to aim which are not CTE. I don't know yet.

However when I learned exactly what to do regarding CTE then I found that I could make a lot more shots cleanly and consistently BUT that I was also having trouble with the longer shots. I know that this is a vision and perception issue rather than a system issue. How do I know this? Because I took it to the table and drew a chalk line from the center of the conveniently and precisely marked Cuesight Training Ball (I will use your method of inserting an ad link) to the edge of the object ball to insure that I was sighting it correctly and then followed the rest of the steps and made the ball.

So I have train myself to see the CTEL line precisely just as one would need to be able to properly visualize the ghost ball. Now I don't know about you but for me it's easier to see lines than it is to see a 2.25 inch imaginary sphere sitting on the pocket line and touching a point exactly 1.125 inches from the imaginary center.

If I map these shots out using chalk lines - I use tailor's chalk which makes a fine line - then I can be sure to know exactly where the CTE line and that coupled with the other directions make it pretty clear to me that this system works "as advertised".

However I cannot package it in a pretty and neat diagram just yet for several reasons as I have explained several times. However that does not mean that some people have not made diagrams that explain it. It's entirely possible that these diagrams exist and you are not privy to them. Now why would that be?

I mean you are a nice guy and you are a scholar and student of billiards. So why wouldn't you be on the collaboration team figuring out the the nuts and bolts behind CTE?

Ask yourself that before you link again to your CTE page which contains nothing of yours except critique of something you don't know how to implement.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

CTE is a good tool to have in your arsenal of tools. Me Personally I am not saying CTE is for every straight shot, or bank shot. For me CTE has become a problem solver. I can not argue with positive results when I personally use CTE on a WTF Shots, and it goes.

 

[JB Cases]

I can't believe you did that, JB! You sound exactly like SpiderWebComm.

No, YOU have the formula called CTE. I want to derive the formula and understand how it's supposed to work. I put the word "magic" there to express exactly what you said, that there is a part of CTE that is not explained. And everytime someone asks for it you are avoiding the question and talk about spoon feeding. What has anything of this to do with the subject?
At least you were being honest, that you are not able to answer. I accept that. But don't expect us then to accept CTE. If it works, it has to be explainable.
I was really ready to illustrate the system as I see is and point out where my problem is and why, so that you can understand it in detail. But I'm wondering if I'm not wasting my time again.

You said, I asked the wrong question. Please point out which question and explain why. What would be the right question?

It's not that I haven't tried CTE at the pool table. But I can only apply what I know. I found it to be hindering and inaccurate.

You don't need to accept anything. I have not told anyone to accept that CTE works, I have just said that it works. Whether you accept that or not is your choice. However in order to know whether it really does work or not then the first step would be to learn it from someone who knows it thoroughly. At the moment that happens to be only two outspoken people on this board Dave Segal and Stan Shuffet. There are others here who use CTE and are proficient with it but they don't join in the fun in these threads. (much smarter people than me I might add)

I have told you and others several times that I will not attempt to give you a spoon-fed guide to CTE because, AGAIN, I am not qualified to do so and I have not yet fully mastered it.

So stop asking.

If you really truly want to know how it goes then you know exactly who you have to go to. If you just want to be a critic without knowing the system then you can do that too.

At this point I don't really care whether you believe it works or not. As Jim Norton said on a podcast today people are generally batting 50% on being right or wrong. So it's all good to me.

My goal is to get those of you who truly want to learn it to go and learn it. You're not going to learn it on AZ. There is too much animosity for that to happen at this point even if it could happen.

I have to bow out for good. Because I am just doing more harm than good by being a cheerleader for CTE.

It works. I will leave it up to people like Stan and Dave S. to figure out how to prove it to you on paper. I will make my videos when I feel ready and able to and perhaps I will develop a method to convey how to use CTE that is easy to see on video.

Until then feel free to theorize about why it can't work - I will be thinking about how to show you that it does.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

HINT: One thing that has really help me IMHO understand how CTE Work, and can be used. Is when making shots getting down low enough to see what I call TRUE Center Ball on the C/B, and an imaginary LINE going across the O/B if the O/B WAS A CLOCK with the ling straight between 9-3 ON THE CLOCK. Pardon me but I will put up a CRUDE CHART.

 

[irock]

Cowboy, I guess I am not understanding what you are saying in your diagram. You are using the clock reference only to find the center of the CB? And then, do you shift your line of aim back to the OB edge. I know how to use CTE, but was just curious, if you do it a different way.

 

[ThePoliteSniper]

You don't need to accept anything. I have not told anyone to accept that CTE works, I have just said that it works. Whether you accept that or not is your choice. However in order to know whether it really does work or not then the first step would be to learn it from someone who knows it thoroughly. At the moment that happens to be only two outspoken people on this board Dave Segal and Stan Shuffet. There are others here who use CTE and are proficient with it but they don't join in the fun in these threads. (much smarter people than me I might add)

I have told you and others several times that I will not attempt to give you a spoon-fed guide to CTE because, AGAIN, I am not qualified to do so and I have not yet fully mastered it.

So stop asking.

If you really truly want to know how it goes then you know exactly who you have to go to. If you just want to be a critic without knowing the system then you can do that too.

At this point I don't really care whether you believe it works or not. As Jim Norton said on a podcast today people are generally batting 50% on being right or wrong. So it's all good to me.

My goal is to get those of you who truly want to learn it to go and learn it. You're not going to learn it on AZ. There is too much animosity for that to happen at this point even if it could happen.

I have to bow out for good. Because I am just doing more harm than good by being a cheerleader for CTE.

It works. I will leave it up to people like Stan and Dave S. to figure out how to prove it to you on paper. I will make my videos when I feel ready and able to and perhaps I will develop a method to convey how to use CTE that is easy to see on video.

Until then feel free to theorize about why it can't work - I will be thinking about how to show you that it does.

Ok.

Dave told me the same story about spoon feeding in the other 70 page thread, and Stan canceled his video. So I have no choice.

I don't know why I'm criticizing so much. Maybe it's because I love pool and I want to protect it from ... no I'm not going to say it.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Cowboy, I guess I am not understanding what you are saying in your diagram. You are using the clock reference only to find the center of the CB? And then, do you shift your line of aim back to the OB edge. I know how to use CTE, but was just curious, if you do it a different way.

What I am saying is to get down low so you see the 9-3 Line at eye level, Those are the true edges at 9 and 3, O-clock!

 

[JB Cases]

Ok.

Dave told me the same story about spoon feeding in the other 70 page thread, and Stan canceled his video. So I have no choice.

I don't know why I'm criticizing so much. Maybe it's because I love pool and I want to protect it from ... no I'm not going to say it.

What makes you think I don't love pool? Or that Dave Segal doesn't love pool?

Do you think Hal Houle hates pool? The guy is 80+ years old and has spent many years teaching people for free. Even IF he were dead wrong that doesn't mean he is deliberately conning people.

But as Spidey says pool is entirely results oriented. You don't get points for missing. So if Hal's systems are complete rubbish then he would have been completely dismissed by the first three people he taught and quickly forgotten.

If Hal's systems turn out to be the type of hallucinogenic that turns ordinary players into ball pocketing monsters without any conscious effort on their part then this is great isn't it? The holy grail of aiming. I know players who take drugs to attempt to reach that state when they play.

What do you think my goal it here?

I play pool, I am highly visible in the pool community. I certainly don't want to be at a show and have someone come up to me and tell me they lost a thousand dollars using CTE because I told them it works. So I have to be pretty sure that my endorsement is accurate and honest.

I am a loudmouth for sure and I never shut up once I get going. But I am not someone who is going to push junk on people for my own gratification. If I sell something then it's because I can stand behind it wholeheartedly.

And I eat my own cooking. I gamble with people using the systems I endorse. So if it really sucks then I should be losing a lot of money by sticking to it.

Now having said all that here is the deal:

I went back and read Dave Alciatore's CTE section. All the information you need to be able to do CTE is there. Including the critique by JAL. There is a particularly crucial but of information he states in the critique which is exactly 100% correct and is in my opinion the key to making CTE work.

I came to the exact same conclusion as Jim got to earlier today on the table. I hadn't read it in Jim's critique but he is 100% correct.

Now again I am not going to point you to it because I think that you should read and absorb the information and take it to the table.

If you do then you will probably love pool even more when you start making ridiculous shots into hangers. I warn you though that you will be more pissed off at yourself than ever when you do miss a fairly standard shot after learning CTE.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

What makes you think I don't love pool? Or that Dave Segal doesn't love pool?

Do you think Hal Houle hates pool? The guy is 80+ years old and has spent many years teaching people for free. Even IF he were dead wrong that doesn't mean he is deliberately conning people.

But as Spidey says pool is entirely results oriented. You don't get points for missing. So if Hal's systems are complete rubbish then he would have been completely dismissed by the first three people he taught and quickly forgotten.

If Hal's systems turn out to be the type of hallucinogenic that turns ordinary players into ball pocketing monsters without any conscious effort on their part then this is great isn't it? The holy grail of aiming. I know players who take drugs to attempt to reach that state when they play.

What do you think my goal it here?

I play pool, I am highly visible in the pool community. I certainly don't want to be at a show and have someone come up to me and tell me they lost a thousand dollars using CTE because I told them it works. So I have to be pretty sure that my endorsement is accurate and honest.

I am a loudmouth for sure and I never shut up once I get going. But I am not someone who is going to push junk on people for my own gratification. If I sell something then it's because I can stand behind it wholeheartedly.

And I eat my own cooking. I gamble with people using the systems I endorse. So if it really sucks then I should be losing a lot of money by sticking to it.

Now having said all that here is the deal:

I went back and read Dave Alciatore's CTE section. All the information you need to be able to do CTE is there. Including the critique by JAL. There is a particularly crucial but of information he states in the critique which is exactly 100% correct and is in my opinion the key to making CTE work.

I came to the exact same conclusion as Jim got to earlier today on the table. I hadn't read it in Jim's critique but he is 100% correct.

Now again I am not going to point you to it because I think that you should read and absorb the information and take it to the table.

If you do then you will probably love pool even more when you start making ridiculous shots into hangers. I warn you though that you will be more pissed off at yourself than ever when you do miss a fairly standard shot after learning CTE.

John Barton in your post above you are try to make people think, some of those people you are trying to make think, are missing something necessary to think.

 

[Roger Long]

HINT: One thing that has really help me IMHO understand how CTE Work, and can be used. Is when making shots getting down low enough to see what I call TRUE Center Ball on the C/B, and an imaginary LINE going across the O/B if the O/B WAS A CLOCK with the ling straight between 9-3 ON THE CLOCK. Pardon me but I will put up a CRUDE CHART.

It appears that Cocobolo Cowboy is presenting his own solid evidence that even he doesn't understand how to properly use CTE.

 

[AtLarge]

It appears that Cocobolo Cowboy is presenting his own solid evidence that even he doesn't understand how to properly use CTE.

I don't read it that way, Roger. It just sounds like the Cowboy is explaining his way of finding CB center and OB edge -- both of which are necessary for CTE.

 

[irock]

After his reply, correct me if I am wrong Cowboy, is that he visualizes a line across the object ball at the widest diameter to the opposite edge, which would be the three on the face of a clock.

 

[ThePoliteSniper]

What makes you think I don't love pool? Or that Dave Segal doesn't love pool?

Do you think Hal Houle hates pool? The guy is 80+ years old and has spent many years teaching people for free. Even IF he were dead wrong that doesn't mean he is deliberately conning people.

But as Spidey says pool is entirely results oriented. You don't get points for missing. So if Hal's systems are complete rubbish then he would have been completely dismissed by the first three people he taught and quickly forgotten.

If Hal's systems turn out to be the type of hallucinogenic that turns ordinary players into ball pocketing monsters without any conscious effort on their part then this is great isn't it? The holy grail of aiming. I know players who take drugs to attempt to reach that state when they play.

What do you think my goal it here?

I play pool, I am highly visible in the pool community. I certainly don't want to be at a show and have someone come up to me and tell me they lost a thousand dollars using CTE because I told them it works. So I have to be pretty sure that my endorsement is accurate and honest.

I am a loudmouth for sure and I never shut up once I get going. But I am not someone who is going to push junk on people for my own gratification. If I sell something then it's because I can stand behind it wholeheartedly.

And I eat my own cooking. I gamble with people using the systems I endorse. So if it really sucks then I should be losing a lot of money by sticking to it.

Now having said all that here is the deal:

I went back and read Dave Alciatore's CTE section. All the information you need to be able to do CTE is there. Including the critique by JAL. There is a particularly crucial but of information he states in the critique which is exactly 100% correct and is in my opinion the key to making CTE work.

I came to the exact same conclusion as Jim got to earlier today on the table. I hadn't read it in Jim's critique but he is 100% correct.

Now again I am not going to point you to it because I think that you should read and absorb the information and take it to the table.

If you do then you will probably love pool even more when you start making ridiculous shots into hangers. I warn you though that you will be more pissed off at yourself than ever when you do miss a fairly standard shot after learning CTE.

Wow, I thought our discussion was over.

Why are you puttung words in my mouth? I never said you don't love pool or that Hal wants to ruin the game for everybody. I just wanted to make clear that I don't bash CTE because I like being a dick.
Reread my first post in this thread.

I've read Dave's CTE section twice already. Hasn't helped that much.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

After his reply, correct me if I am wrong Cowboy, is that he visualizes a line across the object ball at the widest diameter to the opposite edge, which would be the three on the face of a clock.

If you were to lie belly down on a pool table and place you chin on the table, and look at a Single Pool Ball straight in front of you the TRUE EDGE, or Outer Most Portion of the Ball on the right and Left Side would be on the 9-3 LINE.

Picture the Ball being the Face of a Clock, and than picture with the “3” & “9” are, now Draw a straight line between the “3” & “9”.


Pardon me but I am not a GREAT Artist!

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I don't read it that way, Roger. It just sounds like the Cowboy is explaining his way of finding CB center and OB edge -- both of which are necessary for CTE.

That is 100% correct I am explaining how I find O/B Edge, and Q/B Center.

IMHO it is best to just ignore Roger, and not respond to him. He is of the mind set unless you think like him, talk like him, believe what he does, you know nothing.

 

[Mikjary]

Cowboy,

Thank you for that drawing. Do you hip pivot or do you pivot your stick and arm?