CTE aiming.

I got it! It was the initial CB edge lining up at 6 that I was lumping with the parallel line. It should be called ETCCTEPP aiming. That's all there is to it. See you guys on the tour!

PS. Thanks Spidey for putting it out there. Even after I red-repped you way earlier in the thread, you still helped me out a lot. If I could take it back I would.

Like the Eloy say in The Time Machine, "It is all clear". :thumbup:
 
Elephant Man said:
I got it! It was the initial CB edge lining up at 6 that I was lumping with the parallel line. It should be called ETCCTEPP aiming. That's all there is to it. See you guys on the tour!

PS. Thanks Spidey for putting it out there. Even after I red-repped you way earlier in the thread, you still helped me out a lot. If I could take it back I would.

Like the Eloy say in The Time Machine, "It is all clear". :thumbup:
Click to expand...

shhhhhhh geez
 
Dave I don't know why you even bother with these people. If they truly wanted to learn CTE they know where to turn to.
 
JMS said:
Dave I don't know why you even bother with these people. If they truly wanted to learn CTE they know where to turn to.
Click to expand...

The only reason I give a crap the slightest bit is because of my love for Hal.

The time is near for him to get the credit he so deserves.
 
I am loving the blog Dave did.. It is helping to clear up a few misconceptions that I had with CTE.. Keep it up Dave, please.. You're info is a very nice refresher from my day spent with Stan.. You are doing a great service to many of us in spite of what some may say, CTE really does work..
 
MOJOE said:
I am loving the blog Dave did.. It is helping to clear up a few misconceptions that I had with CTE.. Keep it up Dave, please.. You're info is a very nice refresher from my day spent with Stan.. You are doing a great service to many of us in spite of what some may say, CTE really does work..
Click to expand...

Of course it works. The other cte math thread is missing how to keep the bridge length static and offset static - but he's close. The arc changes based on the OB distance (shot arc) and the addressable edge of the CB is a variable.

I don't worry about "what some might say." Not to defend Dr. Dave - but the cte math thread backs up the adjustments he's been saying. With the outermost edge alignment (which combats throw and the addressable CB edge), shot arc pivot and static bridge position - you're there. Distance between bridge and CB must always be less than CB/OB.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Of course it works. The other cte math thread is missing how to keep the bridge length static and offset static - but he's close. The arc changes based on the OB distance (shot arc) and the addressable edge of the CB is a variable.

I don't worry about "what some might say." Not to defend Dr. Dave - but the cte math thread backs up the adjustments he's been saying. With the outermost edge alignment (which combats throw and the addressable CB edge), shot arc pivot and static bridge position - you're there. Distance between bridge and CB must always be less than CB/OB.
Click to expand...

Dave,

Am I understanding the last sentence in your post correctly? Are you saying that CTE only works IF the distance between your bridge and the CB is less than the distance between the CB and the OB? If that's true, then there's a whole lot of shots on the pool table that CTE does not work for.

Thanks,

Randy
 
Randy9Ball said:
Dave,

Am I understanding the last sentence in your post correctly? Are you saying that CTE only works IF the distance between your bridge and the CB is less than the distance between the CB and the OB? If that's true, then there's a whole lot of shots on the pool table that CTE does not work for.

Thanks,

Randy
Click to expand...

No, it always works on every shot. If the OB/CB distance is shorter than your bridge distance, you must make your bridge shorter. If it's WAY close where you can't do that, you pivot from above the cloth and come down.
 
Roger Long said:
So does practice and feel.

Roger
Click to expand...

For most players, practice and feel can only take them so far based on their spacial perception. After that, they can play for 10 years and not see a large degree of improvement. CTE breaks that by eliminating the need for spacial perception.

I'll keep leading you guys to water. When you eliminate aiming from the shooting process (consciously) and feel isn't involved, interesting things happen within one's pool game.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
The only reason I give a crap the slightest bit is because of my love for Hal.

The time is near for him to get the credit he so deserves.
Click to expand...

I hope Hal gets the credit he deserves while he's still with us. He's helped so many people.
 
Roger Long said:
So does practice and feel.

Roger
Click to expand...

No kidding Roger, that's profound stuff there:rolleyes:

I've been playing for nearly 30 years and have done quite well. If I can better my game by implementing CTE, you bet your buttocks that I'm gonna do it. Maybe you're not a believer, and that makes no difference to me.. I too believe in practice and have aimed many shots by feel for many many years with much success. CTE makes the game much easier for me.. YMMV
 
People should use whatever they feel helps their game.

Having said that, The System Heads sure do love hearing themselves talk. :D
 
SpiderWebComm said:
For most players, practice and feel can only take them so far based on their spacial perception. After that, they can play for 10 years and not see a large degree of improvement. CTE breaks that by eliminating the need for spacial perception.

I'll keep leading you guys to water. When you eliminate aiming from the shooting process (consciously) and feel isn't involved, interesting things happen within one's pool game.
Click to expand...

Dave:

*THIS* is probably the most revealing answer you can possibly give, thus far, on the whole ghostball vs. system-based aiming topic. I'm sure *you* realize the impact of what you wrote here, but I'm not sure others have. It's profound.

I agree -- for those that do not have [either developed, or gifted] spacial perception, completely removing this "Achilles Heel" and replacing it with something that is more tangible / calculable (if that's a word?) is going to cause interesting things to suddenly start happening to that person's potting / pocketing ability. (Obviously this is leaving out other things that directly affect that person's proficiency in pool, like controlling the cue ball, figuring out do-able patterns in pattern games like 14.1, One Pocket, and 8-ball, but I digress.)

Here's the reason why CTE cannot be the "be all, end all" aiming system, or the de-facto standard "for all people" -- going back to that perceptive ability of the player him/herself. I'll use myself as an example. You know that whack-a-mole game, right? For me, that ghostball is a mole that pops up at the exact spot next to the object ball to pocket that object ball. It sounds silly, but for me, pocketing a ball is playing whack-a-mole -- except I'm shooting the mole dead-center in the face, rather than hitting him over the top of the head.

So for me, although I've attempted to use CTE, stick-based aiming techniques, etc. (all in the spirit of "what the hey? why not try it" open-mindedness), that mole keeps popping up next to the object ball every time, like... <Pop!> "Hewwo!" (Elmer Fudd voice). I'd get up off the shot, shake it off, and try again... <Pop!> "Hewwo!" Damn it; get up, shake it off, get back down and try again... <Pop!> "Hewwo!" Ok, I give up. Ok, Mr. Ghostball Mole, I can't shake you. You're an integral part of my game, of my shot perception.

Point being, I can't throw-away what comes naturally. I'm actually fighting myself to do so, to try to ignore seeing that ghostball, to try and take my six senses and reduce them to five. And to be honest, why should I? For me, it's not abstract -- it's right there, in front of my eyes. It's almost tangible -- I can reach out and almost pick that ghostball up.

To playfully plagiarize a quote from Haley Joel Osment in "The Sixth Sense," "I see dead balls!" :D (Ok, that was a little dramatic, but hopefully you catch my drift.)

I guess this stems from what I used to do as a kid, when my Dad would take me hunting and fishing in the deep woods in upstate New York state. I'd take a pencil and memo pad with me, because I loved sketching. Because the abrasive sound of a pencil against paper is a no-no when hunting, whenever I saw some scenery or something that I thought would look really cool sketched out on paper, I'd have to remember it -- to freeze it as a picture in my mind. Then, in the car ride back home, I'd break-out the memo pad and pencil, and begin sketching away, permanently affixing the image frozen in my mind to the paper. While my ability to accurately duplicate on paper, with dexterous skills, never could match the details I saw in my mind, the ability to perceive and "freeze" images in my mind has stayed with me ever since. I can't shut it off.

Again, in summary, what works for some people, may not work for others, *precisely* because of cognitive/perceptive abilities. Let's keep that in mind, especially during those euphoric moments (for some people) when CTE is finally understood.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Dave:

*THIS* is probably the most revealing answer you can possibly give, thus far, on the whole ghostball vs. system-based aiming topic. I'm sure *you* realize the impact of what you wrote here, but I'm not sure others have. It's profound.

I agree -- for those that do not have [either developed, or gifted] spacial perception, completely removing this "Achilles Heel" and replacing it with something that is more tangible / calculable (if that's a word?) is going to cause interesting things to suddenly start happening to that person's potting / pocketing ability. (Obviously this is leaving out other things that directly affect that person's proficiency in pool, like controlling the cue ball, figuring out do-able patterns in pattern games like 14.1, One Pocket, and 8-ball, but I digress.)

Here's the reason why CTE cannot be the "be all, end all" aiming system, or the de-facto standard "for all people" -- going back to that perceptive ability of the player him/herself. I'll use myself as an example. You know that whack-a-mole game, right? For me, that ghostball is a mole that pops up at the exact spot next to the object ball to pocket that object ball. It sounds silly, but for me, pocketing a ball is playing whack-a-mole -- except I'm shooting the mole dead-center in the face, rather than hitting him over the top of the head.

So for me, although I've attempted to use CTE, stick-based aiming techniques, etc. (all in the spirit of "what the hey? why not try it" open-mindedness), that mole keeps popping up next to the object ball every time, like... <Pop!> "Hewwo!" (Elmer Fudd voice). I'd get up off the shot, shake it off, and try again... <Pop!> "Hewwo!" Damn it; get up, shake it off, get back down and try again... <Pop!> "Hewwo!" Ok, I give up. Ok, Mr. Ghostball Mole, I can't shake you. You're an integral part of my game, of my shot perception.

Point being, I can't throw-away what comes naturally. I'm actually fighting myself to do so, to try to ignore seeing that ghostball, to try and take my six senses and reduce them to five. And to be honest, why should I? For me, it's not abstract -- it's right there, in front of my eyes. It's almost tangible -- I can reach out and almost pick that ghostball up.

To playfully plagiarize a quote from Haley Joel Osment in "The Sixth Sense," "I see dead balls!" :D (Ok, that was a little dramatic, but hopefully you catch my drift.)

I guess this stems from what I used to do as a kid, when my Dad would take me hunting and fishing in the deep woods in upstate New York state. I'd take a pencil and memo pad with me, because I loved sketching. Because the abrasive sound of a pencil against paper is a no-no when hunting, whenever I saw some scenery or something that I thought would look really cool sketched out on paper, I'd have to remember it -- to freeze it as a picture in my mind. Then, in the car ride back home, I'd break-out the memo pad and pencil, and begin sketching away, permanently affixing the image frozen in my mind to the paper. While my ability to accurately duplicate on paper, with dexterous skills, never could match the details I saw in my mind, the ability to perceive and "freeze" images in my mind has stayed with me ever since. I can't shut it off.

Again, in summary, what works for some people, may not work for others, *precisely* because of cognitive/perceptive abilities. Let's keep that in mind, especially during those euphoric moments (for some people) when CTE is finally understood.

-Sean
Click to expand...

Let me swing you in a different direction. Where you see "dead balls" - I see the "CTEL." I know the post-pivot position is the center of a pocket. Now, if a pocket is half-blocked, I'll make a slight shift one way or another to hit that part of the pocket. You might be able to put a ghost ball whack-a-mole in a place that can allow you to be accurate enough to do that, but I know I can't consistently. So, this allows someone with ZERO natural ability like myself to pocket balls at a decent level.

Another scenario--

Let's say if an OB is at a random place on a table with a 9ball hanging in the jaws of an adjacent pocket. You prob have the ability to "see" the bottom of a ghost ball for a carom angle or don't mind aiming for the back of the OB with follow. For me, I'll take a thin-side pivot with enough draw to stun the CB at impact--- which sends the CB straight for the pocket. No calculation required beyond focusing on having no spin upon impact.

So, I think my point is it turns pool into a video game. No calculation required. That's why angles don't matter beyond positioning and speed control.

Dave
 
MOJOE said:
No kidding Roger, that's profound stuff there:rolleyes:

I've been playing for nearly 30 years and have done quite well. If I can better my game by implementing CTE, you bet your buttocks that I'm gonna do it. Maybe you're not a believer, and that makes no difference to me.. I too believe in practice and have aimed many shots by feel for many many years with much success. CTE makes the game much easier for me.. YMMV
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to be profound, MOJOE; I was trying to be simple. It's CTE that's profound. And it's for that very reason that I don't think it is a method that very many players can understand. You say it works for you, and I believe you. Dave (Spidey) says it works for him, and I believe him too. But I haven't seen any champions come on here and say they didn't reach champion-speed until they learned CTE. As far as that goes, I wonder just how many pro players would even tell you that they have tried using CTE - or maybe even heard of CTE? My guess is, not many.

My biggest problems with CTE are these:

1. The implication that it can improve anybody's game. I don't believe it can. It is just another stick aiming method, and a very complicated one at that. It is not magic, and it is only "easy" to those who are wired to "see" it. Other players will "see" other methods much easier.

2. While I am not a member of Randy G's "SPF (Set, Pause, Finish) Family of Billiard Instructors," I definitely agree with their philosophy. The word SET has real meaning. I believe that once you are SET up over a shot, you should move nothing off of your straight line of aim until the cue ball is well on its way to the target. That means NO pivot. Call me stubborn and old-fashioned if you will, but all this talk about pivots puts a scare into me! :eek:

I'm happy your shooting well, MOJOE. Keep up the good work. :thumbup:

Roger <----new Spidey fan (but not CTE) :):grin::D:grin-square:
 
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