CTE/ PRO ONE with Stan Shuffett

[lfigueroa]

I was on the spot in front of everyone in the room the whole time, I thought. If I recall, you walked in the room, listened for a little while, heard enough, and split.

I'm warmed by your concern about not wanting to make me uncomfy in front of other people. For a minute, I thought you wanted to call Blair and setup a Pool, Poker & Pain match between us or something

Well, really, you were there doing your thing and I didn't want to intrude, other than to introduce myself. I popped in several times to listen to some of the stuff you were saying.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Don't you see yourself Lou? "Small child", that's not inflammatory is it? That's not divisive, is it?

You do it all of the time. That's about all your posts are good for these days. It's unfortunate, REALLY!

um, Ok, I was being funny on that one -- I'm willing to bet even John, who has a pretty well developed funny bone, got that one.

Lou Figueroa
guess I'm going to
have to start flagging these
"Funny" "Not Funny"
for Joey

 

[BasementDweller]

Maybe you can help me out. I have been reading pool related forums for quite some time. Usually when I find myself in a pool frenzy, which I am now in I reject the idea that in order to understand CTE I need to be taught it by a competent instructor. Can anyone point me to the most definitive written explanation of CTE??? So far after reading all this stuff I am still uncertain what the heck you guys are even talking about. I have mentioned previously that I'm a feel player and I'm a bit skeptical about what I have read about this CTE stuff thus far but I'm still willing to consider it. If someone can point me to a detailed written explanation I will read it and then if I believe this CTE stuff has any merit I will proceed to purchase the video.

One other thing - For the record, this notion that the secrets of CTE cannot be revealed on this forum is one of the most ridiculous things I seen on here. ("Oh no he den't")

 

[Jerry Yost]

3andstop post

Spidey…I'm in the same camp as 3andstop in terms of the importance of stroke mechanics. I would be interested in your comments regarding his is last post.

 

[JB Cases]

I do look forward to meeting Spidey in person some day, but my academic commitments and schedule make it difficult for me to travel in non-summer months. However, I have spoken with Spidey on the phone several times, read his entire CTE blog very carefully, read his many hundreds of posts concerning CTE, watched and studied all of his online video demonstrations of CTE, and I have tried at the table absolutely everything he and others have suggested. Honestly, as with Mike Page, Bob Jewett, and Patrick Johnson, who have "spent time" with CTE proponents at an actual table, I doubt table time with Spidey would change my current understanding of CTE; although, I am always willing to learn more and help others better understand things.

I already have. All of the "Lab results" are here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE​

Maybe not all of these results will apply to Stan's Pro-One, but I won't know until the DVD is released.

Regards,
Dave

I am sorry but I can't find the place where YOU state the system YOU learned and YOUR observations/conclusions based on YOUR work.

Can you point me there?

I see that you post a LOT of opinions and stuff from other people. Some of it from people who also have never posted a description or instructions about any CTE system they have learned because they have not learned any.

The basic argument is that CTE is not fully described and that it's not geometrically correct.

So A. if it's not fully described then B. you can't know if it's not geometrically sound.

So why not learn the system?

Why don't you call Dave Segal and ask him what his schedule looks like? He was in Las Vegas in the summer. Short flight for you.

Plus, please don't give me the nonsense about not being able to get away from school during the school year. My wife was a grad student TA at the University of Colorado and later an adjunct at the University of Arkansas and my last girlfriend in North Carolina was a physics professor at UNC. People go to conferences and speaking engagements throughout the year and have adjuncts and grad student TA's covering their classes.

Between you and I if you really wanted to make the SBE in March you could find time between Friday after classes and Monday before classes to get there.

Make a playdate with Dave Segal and write the whole thing off as "research" tracking down the elusive and arcane aiming system that defies all known physical laws.....

 

[lfigueroa]

I guess you know each other then? So it would have been wrong to email each other beforehand and make a time to get together privately?

I don't think that the onus is on Dave to seek you out. I think that if you want to know how it works (you or Pat or anyone) then you should seek out the people who really know it and have them show you.

Of course if putting people on the spot is a concern then there were only 100 other tables at the venue available including two 9 foot ones in our booth.

You got my point well enough.

John, it's not any one's onus -- I was in your booth in Philly, mit the two tables and 27 8x10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one describing what each one was for like an hour and you didn't say, "Hey, Lou: let's settle this CTE thing right now."

As passionate as you are about the whole CTE thing, obviously it's not a priority for you either when someone is there in person.

Lou Figueroa

 

[dr_dave]

Maybe you can help me out. I have been reading pool related forums for quite some time. Usually when I find myself in a pool frenzy, which I am now in I reject the idea that in order to understand CTE I need to be taught it by a competent instructor. Can anyone point me to the most definitive written explanation of CTE??? So far after reading all this stuff I am still uncertain what the heck you guys are even talking about. I have mentioned previously that I'm a feel player and I'm a bit skeptical about what I have read about this CTE stuff thus far but I'm still willing to consider it. If someone can point me to a detailed written explanation I will read it and then if I believe this CTE stuff has any merit I will proceed to purchase the video.

The best descriptions I have seen to date are summarized here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE​

Pro-One might be very different from these, but we won't know until the DVD comes out.

One other thing - For the record, this notion that the secrets of CTE cannot be revealed on this forum is one of the most ridiculous things I seen on here. ("Oh no he den't")

For the record, I agree.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

John:
Pat and Lou and the rest WILL NOT go and get the straight info from the people who have it

Let's review the people who have "the straight info":

You? The Devoted Acolyte? I met with you and can say without hesitation that you don't have it.

Spidey? The CTE Mathemagician? He doesn't know the difference between 2 or 3 dimensions and speaks of Mystical Pivots.

Hal Houle? The Godfather of Gobbledygook? I can make more sense of what astrologists say. (Blasphemy!)

Stan Shuffet? The New Prophet? The jury's out, but I'm not about to spend a weekend in Kentucky to see if he's the unlikely exception to the rule.

Anybody else on AzB? LOL.

Yeah, we're totally unreasonable for "refusing to get the straight info". Got our minds locked down tight. Unwilling to see the truth that's right there for all (who speak the True and Ancient Language) to see.

pj
chgo

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Can anyone point me to the most definitive written explanation of CTE???

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms190766.aspx
http://www.cte.ca/
http://cte.uwaterloo.ca/

Take your pick. All seem pretty definitive.

 

[justadub]

So here we are, patiently sittin' on the Group W bench, whistling a tune and playing with the pencils and forms, and waiting for Stan's DVD to come around.

Lou Figueroa

Lou, I believe it was you made some mention of needing a new keyboard some pages back, from spitting out your coffee or something...

I though of you, as I was driving to work yesterday morning. What did my ears perceive, coming out of my radio? Why, Alices Restuarant Massacre, in 4 part harmony! All 18+ gloroious minutes of it.

Now let's take a minute and think about it. Perhaps we can learn something from Arlo. We have folks here who insist on having twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each
one was to be used as evidence...

Then we have those who are like the judge, with his seeing eye dog. They arent gonna look at the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one. Apprently this is just another case of AZB blind justice...

Maybe we all need to walk into the shrinks office
(any CTE thread) sing a bar of Alices Resturant, and walk out.

If two people do it, (well... we'll skip that line out of diversity sake.)

If three people do it, it's an organization. And if fifty people a day walk in, sing a line of Alices resturant and walk out, then they'll think it's a movement. And it is. It's the I love CTE (or) I Hate CTE movement.

I digress, and I babble, and only Lou will (possibly) appreciate my drivel. But it isn't any worse than much of the other drivel we see here each and every day.

 

[JE54]

That song and movie bring back memories....

 

[JB Cases]

John, it's not any one's onus -- I was in your booth in Philly, mit the two tables and 27 8x10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one describing what each one was for like an hour and you didn't say, "Hey, Lou: let's settle this CTE thing right now."

As passionate as you are about the whole CTE thing, obviously it's not a priority for you either when someone is there in person.

Lou Figueroa

Um, I think I was busy. Besides that I wouldn't have been able to show you anything more than me using it to make balls. I wouldn't be the one qualified to say to you "this is CTE at it's purest". Just like with Pat all I could do is show you what I do and hope you would duplicate it and then maybe a light bulb would go off.

I made time to go see Pat when I knew I was going to be in Chicago. I didn't have to do that. I could have jsut as easily not told him I'd be there and hooked up with someone else. I could have gone out to a pool room by myself.

So please don't try to spin this one.

If you or Pat or anyone really truly wanted to know "CTE" then you would have already gotten it.

You don't want to know it.

If I were in your shoes with my personality then I would have already been all over it. The FIRST thing I would have done is called Hal Houlse and gotten his version ON TAPE. Then I would have called Dave Segal and gotten his version ON TAPE. Then if at all possible I would have hooked up with Dave or anyone professing to be able to teach CTE and gotten the purest instruction possible.

AND THEN

Then I would have taken it to the table and dissected the hell out it. Step by Step.

But that's just me if I were skeptical. Luckily for ME, I am not skeptical, it works for me, and I don't need to make any money selling it to anyone. Nor do I have any ego wrapped up in disproving it.

So I have no burden of proof on me. I don't need to resort to calling instructors who sell their versions of CTE snake-oil salesmen, I don't have to call people idiots and delusional because they won't give me what I want.

Whenever I am skeptical about something I research it and go get the answers. I don't tell people who have the answers that they are idiots if they don't give me the answers on an open forum.

Anyway, again you know exactly what I mean. If you had wanted to know about CTE then you could have said to me, even when I was busy, "hey John got some time later to discuss CTE?" and my response would have been "Sure Lou, how about when the booth closes around 8pm?"

You know 100% that this would been my attitude. And I might have tried to track down Dave Segal and gotten him in on it too.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't have to know anything about CTE to know that's nonsense, and that there's no point in our talking about it. We just don't speak the same language about this stuff.

pj
chgo

cookie man:
I think you just can't accept that that could be true.

I think you just don't get any of this. But I don't think you need to in order to get something from CTE.

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

I do look forward to meeting Spidey in person some day, but my academic commitments and schedule make it difficult for me to travel in non-summer months. However, I have spoken with Spidey on the phone several times, read his entire CTE blog very carefully, read his many hundreds of posts concerning CTE, watched and studied all of his online video demonstrations of CTE, and I have tried at the table absolutely everything he and others have suggested. Honestly, as with Mike Page, Bob Jewett, and Patrick Johnson, who have "spent time" with CTE proponents at an actual table, I doubt table time with Spidey would change my current understanding of CTE; although, I am always willing to learn more and help others better understand things.

I already have. All of the "Lab results" are here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE​

Maybe not all of these results will apply to Stan's Pro-One, but I won't know until the DVD is released.

I am sorry but I can't find the place where YOU state the system YOU learned and YOUR observations/conclusions based on YOUR work.

Can you point me there?

I see that you post a LOT of opinions and stuff from other people. Some of it from people who also have never posted a description or instructions about any CTE system they have learned because they have not learned any.

The basic argument is that CTE is not fully described and that it's not geometrically correct.

So A. if it's not fully described then B. you can't know if it's not geometrically sound.

So why not learn the system?

Why don't you call Dave Segal and ask him what his schedule looks like? He was in Las Vegas in the summer. Short flight for you.

Plus, please don't give me the nonsense about not being able to get away from school during the school year. My wife was a grad student TA at the University of Colorado and later an adjunct at the University of Arkansas and my last girlfriend in North Carolina was a physics professor at UNC. People go to conferences and speaking engagements throughout the year and have adjuncts and grad student TA's covering their classes.

Between you and I if you really wanted to make the SBE in March you could find time between Friday after classes and Monday before classes to get there.

Make a playdate with Dave Segal and write the whole thing off as "research" tracking down the elusive and arcane aiming system that defies all known physical laws.....

John,

We've been through all of this a hundred times. My time is extremely valuable to me. If I thought CTE warranted all of the attention you seem to think it deserves, I would fly to Vegas or Kentucky and spend the time and money to "research it further." However, to date, I have not seen any information that convinces me my currently understanding of CTE is as far off as you seem to think it is. I do look forward to viewing Stan's DVD, and I hope he does offer some new insights into the important questions about CTE; but until then, the suggestions you are making are downright ridiculous.

Please give this whole think a break until Stan's DVD comes out. Only then will we actually have something more meaningful to discuss. After all of this hype and drama, I certainly hope this will be the case.

Regards,
Dave

 

[JB Cases]

Let's review the people who have "the straight info":

You? The Devoted Acolyte? I met with you and can say without hesitation that you don't have it.

Spidey? The CTE Mathemagician? He doesn't know the difference between 2 or 3 dimensions and speaks of Mystical Pivots.

Hal Houle? The Godfather of Gobbledygook? I can make more sense of what astrologists say. (Blasphemy!)

Stan Shuffet? The New Prophet? The jury's out, but I'm not about to spend a weekend in Kentucky to see if he's the unlikely exception to the rule.

Anybody else on AzB? LOL.

Yeah, we're totally unreasonable for "refusing to get the straight info". Got our minds locked down tight. Unwilling to see the truth that's right there for all (who speak the True and Ancient Language) to see.

pj
chgo

You really do have an amazing capacity to be a dick. I mean it's just so natural to you.

The point is that no matter how much you insult you still have never gotten the information from the source.

You can't quote Hal from any conversation that was between you both only. Nor from Dave S.

Nor from Stan.

So basically all you can do is speculate.

So keep on keeping your ego thing going. Apparently there is some kind of payoff there for you Pat. I don't know what it is but if this behavior of yours turns you on then keep it up.

Some people just like to be dicks I guess. That's how you seem to me.

 

[justadub]

Please give this whole think a break until Stan's DVD comes out. Only then will we actually have something more meaningful to discuss. After all of this hype and drama, I certainly hope this will be the case.

Regards,
Dave

How about a self-imposed moritorium on this subject for everyone, until said DVD arrives? Wouldn't that make sense?

naaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Way too much fun to be had arguing.

 

[JoeyA]

I wasn't being funny. The words jackal, cancer, haters, naysayer all came from your recent posts here.

You are engaging in fear mongering, blaming a group who disagree with you for your woes and accusing them of using their smarmy skills of debating and humor to the detriment of the group. Figuratively speaking you are one step removed from having some here sew on bright yellow emblems on their lapels and putting them all on trains in the middle of the night.

Lately, there has been some progress through this discussion in reaching a middle ground, with some on the CTE side finally seeing that all some on the "other side" are just trying to get enough information to figure out how the system works. And if you say it works for you and don't need to know the inner workings: be happy!. No one has an issue with that.

So here we are, patiently sittin' on the Group W bench, whistling a tune and playing with the pencils and forms, and waiting for Stan's DVD to come around. Meanwhile, you're running around trying to round up a lynch mob.

As Mike put it: that's divisive.

Lou Figueroa

All of my posts are nothing more than responses to your constant needling to myself and others on this forum.

YOU are the divisive one.

And just in case you didn't read my previous post. I said that this thread was not about trying to figure out how CTE/Pro One works.

Besides, I thought you said you weren't interested in CTE??? Besides your incendiary remarks at every turn, why would you post in a thread that has nothing to do with how CTE works?

Could it be that you just enjoy "teasing" people? You do it to most everyone that has chosen to use CTE.

It's really getting OLD.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

John:
You can't quote Hal from any conversation that was between you both only. Nor from Dave S.

Nor from Carrot Top. I don't go to him for "info" either.

It's called "discernment", John.

pj
chgo

 

[JB Cases]

John,

We've been through all of this a hundred times. My time is extremely valuable to me. If I thought CTE warranted all of the attention you seem to think it deserves, I would fly to Vegas or Kentucky and spend the time and money to "research it further." However, to date, I have not seen any information that convinces me my currently understanding of CTE is as far off as you seem to think it is. I do look forward to viewing Stan's DVD, and I hope he does offer some new insights into the important questions about CTE; but until then, the suggestions you are making are downright ridiculous.

Please give this whole think a break until Stan's DVD comes out. Only then will we actually have something more meaningful to discuss. After all of this hype and drama, I certainly hope this will be the case.

Regards,
Dave

Tell your "crew" to give it a break unitl Stan's DVD is out then. Apparently you think CTE is important enough to continue to be a part of every CTE discussion and never miss any opportunity to link to the "your" CTE page which hardly can be called yours since it contains only opinions from other people. Apparently you think CTE is important enough to mock.

My suggestions are ridiculous?

Forgetting about CTE you are saying that you can never make time to go to any of the large events in a sport for which you would like to position yourself as the foremost scholar in?

You have done all this research, put together all these material which you don't mind that we and other distributors sell for you, and yet you are just too busy to go to actual pool events?

Isn't is just a tad funny that you would like us all to buy the VEPS and the Illustrated Principle of Pocket Billiards (shorter titles please)....but you are too busy to show up at shows?

Somehow I don't think that my suggestions are ridiculous at all. As I have said and will continue to say, in all other aspects of your work I find that you have done an EXCELLENT job and I thank you. With CTE you are doing a horrible job and if one of us should "let it go" then it's you at this point in my opinion. In my view and the view of many others you are treating this like some sort of vendetta and using your "page" as a weapon.

Not the sort of thing I would expect from a scholar but then again I was clued in on how catty academics can be from my past relationships with them.

 

[JoeyA]

um, Ok, I was being funny on that one -- I'm willing to bet even John, who has a pretty well developed funny bone, got that one.

Lou Figueroa
guess I'm going to
have to start flagging these
"Funny" "Not Funny"
for Joey

Yeah, another classic example of your sick, perverted humor.
JoeyA