Cue Balance.

S

SPINDOKTOR

lool wtf??
Silver Member
Does anyone really balance cues these days? I remember reading about a Perfectly balanced Herman Rambow cue, never really knew what that meant, and all these production cues these days are so weight forward its crazy.

I set up an experiment, 4 differnt brand cues, all differing quality a price.

I used the back of my couch, set the cues where they were balanced on the back and then lined them all up even to see the differace in the balance. I was quite amazed at the resutls.


All but one was weight forward, and its the cue I like the most, it sets Real close to level. the rest set Nose down. To me the cue that sets nearly level is the "Balanced" cue.



I suppose Im asking Any cue makers out there Balance thier cues to my preferance?



To get the cue all the set nearly level had to adjust thier length, as follows

Cue L- 15" From the Butt to the couch


Cue S- 13 1/2" (My favorite cue).

Cue P- 16"

Cue J- 16 1/2"


SPINDOKTOR
 
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balance point

Typically the balance point, which would be to the center of the back of your couch in your example, will be around 19 inches. The "S" cue in your example appears very butt heavy assuming the others are typical cues with the "S" balance point at around sixteen inches guessing that the others actually balance between eighteen and a half and nineteen and a half inches. Most people are a little uncomfortable shooting with that balance and an open bridge. A closed bridge or the habit of putting a little downward pressure on the bridge and the balance is less important.

My playing cue is actually weight forward right now at around twenty-one inches from the butt if I remember correctly, on a sixty inch cue. I am currently changing the joint pin, collar, and shaft to lighten the front of the cue. I'll have to see where it balances and how it plays afterwards.

Hu
 
Dok, All of your cues are terribly back heavy. As a rule of thumb, less that 18" from buttcap is back heavy or back weighted. 18-19" is neutral and 19-20" is forward balanced. The cue makers I know do pay close attention to balance as it does affect how a cue plays. I prefer a cue that is balanced between 18-1/2-19". YMMV. Martin




SPINDOKTOR said:
Does anyone really balance cues these days? I remember reading about a Perfectly balanced Herman Rambow cue, never really knew what that meant, and all these production cues these days are so weight forward its crazy.

I set up an experiment, 4 differnt brand cues, all differing quality a price.

I used the back of my couch, set the cues where they were balanced on the back and then lined them all up even to see the differace in the balance. I was quite amazed at the resutls.


All but one was weight forward, and its the cue I like the most, it sets Real close to level. the rest set Nose down. To me the cue that sets nearly level is the "Balanced" cue.

I used the back of my couch, set the cues where they were balanced on the back and then lined them all up even to see the differace in the balance. I was quite amazed at the resutls.

I suppose Im asking Any cue makers out there Balance thier cues to my preferance?



To get the cue all the set nearly level had to adjust thier length, as follows

Cue L- 15" From the Butt to the couch


Cue S- 13 1/2" (My favorite cue).

Cue P- 16"

Cue J- 16 1/2"


SPINDOKTOR
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jazznpool said:
Dok, All of your cues are terribly back heavy. As a rule of thumb, less that 18" from buttcap is back heavy or back weighted. 18-19" is neutral and 19-20" is forward balanced. The cue makers I know do pay close attention to balance as it does affect how a cue plays. I prefer a cue that is balanced between 18-1/2-19". YMMV. Martin
Click to expand...



lol, well, maybe if I labeled the cues.... Im sure my method is not determining the exact balance point, but just a referance for me to see why I like the cues I do..


The first cue is a Lucasi 19oz

The Second is a Ray Schuler (my favorite since it seems to be balanced to suit my taste.)

The Third Is a Players cue with a Stainless Joint 19oz

The last Cue is a Joss. 19oz


The Schuler Doesnt feel Butt Heavy, it feels Balanced. as I do not like butt heavy cues either. I think its like 18.5oz but not sure.

The result is the same the Schuler Is absolutely Balanced differnt, and I wasnt aware of this until I did this crude test. The point is, however the Schuler is balanced is How I want a custom cue, 60" long. I dont want a really weight forward cue, My stroke doesnt need any help, and I have absolutely no problems with a open bridge.

The Joss (retail 750$) the Lucasi (BW model 200$) and the players (65$)

are all balanced simular, and seemingly are the majority of cues out there. So my only true option is to have a custom made. I just need to know who?


SPINDOKTOR
 
Balance points

The top of your couch is not narrow enough to get the true balance points,
you need to balance on something more precise for measurement. Lots of guys just do it on their index finger, but you can use something like
a reinforced notepad top that is only abuot a 1/4" thick.

I do not really like a forward balanced cue, I like a center balanced cue. I want to feel like the cue is evenly balanced between my bridge and grip hands. I am pretty sure my cue is 19" balance point, but I need to recheck it.

On a 60" cue I wouldn't really know, but I think around 20" balance point would feel about right.

This is an important aspect of the cues you might buy off the internet without actually trying them out first, because if the balance doesn't feel right to you, it won't matter about the rest of the cue, because you will notice it on every shot you make with the cue.
 
Snapshot9 said:
The top of your couch is not narrow enough to get the true balance points,
you need to balance on something more precise for measurement. Lots of guys just do it on their index finger, but you can use something like
a reinforced notepad top that is only abuot a 1/4" thick.

I do not really like a forward balanced cue, I like a center balanced cue. I want to feel like the cue is evenly balanced between my bridge and grip hands. I am pretty sure my cue is 19" balance point, but I need to recheck it.

On a 60" cue I wouldn't really know, but I think around 20" balance point would feel about right.

This is an important aspect of the cues you might buy off the internet without actually trying them out first, because if the balance doesn't feel right to you, it won't matter about the rest of the cue, because you will notice it on every shot you make with the cue.
Click to expand...




Ive been getting some flack for not hanging onto cues, people are like what? you to good to keep such and such cue? Its hard to explain why the Majority of cues out there does not feel confortable to me, no matter the name brand or the price.

I was beggining to question myself, whether this is just some excuse or something, then when I checked the Balance of a cue I like against a cue Im told I should like and there is a definate Balance differance , I must conclude I favor a certain balance.

No I cant accurately measure the Balance point, I just did this as a comparison and its good for that. This told me what Ive been wondering. and Moves me in a direction knowing now the type of balance I prefere.


Im just curious why so Many cues are Balanced so weight forward?

Also Is there a cue maker out there who can Balance a cue the way Id like?



I also checked the balance point on the Schuler with my Finger, from the edge of the Butt Cap the balance point is 17.7"

The Joss is 19.75"

The Lucasi is 18.2"



SPINDOKTOR
 
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Just trying to learn here. So is the consensus that a forward balanced cue is good for an open bridge, while a butt heavy cue is good for a closed one?
 
pwd72s said:
Just trying to learn here. So is the consensus that a forward balanced cue is good for an open bridge, while a butt heavy cue is good for a closed one?
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I have no problems with shooting with a open bridge with the Schuler, to me it feels more confortable, using a closed or open bridge. I also must stress My Schuler doesnt feel but heavy. it feels Neutral Balance. The Joss and Lucasi, the cue in my hand wants to point down, while the Schuler feels Neutral... or remain level. This feels Right to me.




SPINDOKTOR
 
Thanks...so balance is all part of the feel? Guess I need to get out my cues, design some sort of fulcrum. :)
 
you can get a pretty close measurement with a tape measure and holding the cue between your thumb and 1st finger. i personally like my cues to be around 19-19.5.
 
pwd72s said:
Thanks...so balance is all part of the feel? Guess I need to get out my cues, design some sort of fulcrum. :)
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If you carry your cue with just your left and right index fingers, and bring the fingers slowly together, they will automatically meet at the balance point.

And IMO, it doesn't matter as far as playability goes where a cue is balanced. It's how that balance and your body interact and how it all feel to you when you stroke.

Fred
 
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SPINDOKTOR said:
Does anyone really balance cues these days?
Click to expand...
Every decent cuemaker does.

I also checked the balance point on the Schuler with my Finger, from the edge of the Butt Cap the balance point is 16 1/2
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This could only happen if someone put too much additional weight on the weight plug (assuming your measurement is accurate, which doesn't sound it). Just like any other cuemaker that uses weights, the cue was designed for a certain butt weight. Any addition or removal of weight at the weight plug (or bolt) will change the balance point. Too much either way and the change becomes crazy.

All four of my Schulers are in the 18 - 18.5" range, which just right for me. Sounds to me like someone tried to make a 20oz cue out of one meant to be around 18 oz.

Fred <~~~ BTDT
 
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a good rule of thumb is 1 ounce will move the balance 1". most of my cues are like that except i have a capone that the bolt goes pretty deep into the butt so the change isnt as much.
 
Cornerman said:
Every decent cuemaker does.


This could only happen if someone put too much additional weight on the weight plug (assuming your measurement is accurate, which doesn't sound it). Just like any other cuemaker that uses weights, the cue was designed for a certain butt weight. Any addition or removal of weight at the weight plug (or bolt) will change the balance point. Too much either way and the change becomes crazy.

All four of my Schulers are in the 18 - 18.5" range, which just right for me. Sounds to me like someone tried to make a 20oz cue out of one meant to be around 18 oz.

Fred <~~~ BTDT
Click to expand...


This Schuler is Light, Id say around 18.5oz, using a 1/4" to balance the cue, I acurately measured 17.7" Balancing the cue with my finger and trying to measure isnt acurate, Im going to measure the Joss and Lucasi the same way I did the Schuler and I'll Edit my post with more acurate Balance point measurements, If you have a Joss or a Lucasi Measure them for a referance.



SPINDOKTOR
 
I don't think there is a perfectly balanced cue because again it is just a matter of personal preference. What I like and what the next person likes is irrelevent to another. Some people like fat, some skinny some tall, some short ...just find what you like and helps you play more consistent and you don't have to worry what feels perfect to another person.
Just my opinion
Paul
PS
I like forward balanced cues
 
socks said:
Dieckman wrote up alittle about how he balances cues here. is an interesting read.

http://www.cuemaker.com/book_on_cue_building/01philothoughts_web.PDF
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Very interesting. Understand though I know what I want/need from a cue, a cue forward balanced is ok, I truely dont feel onfortable until I hit with the Schuler, instantly my game improves. I become more focused and Want to play. You could offer me the finest weight forward cue or the Schuler, Id choose the Schuler, Dan Janes, Tried to help me, I ask, I said Dan Help me, He sent me a perfect cue, but Balanced wrong for me. Dan is a great guy and builds awsome cues, Nothing wrong with the quality or the Joss hit, its just balanced wrong for me.

Ive went through Fury, Jacoby, Joss, Mezz, Lucasi, Schon, Brunswick, Dufferin, Hubler, Helmsteter, Falcon, Meucci, McDermott, Viking, and Im sure Im forgetting some, Searching for a cue that feels right to me, the only cue to really feel right is the Ray Schuler, Id like to have a 60" version. and Im done with buying cue's for awhile, I just want to play.

Im asking, is there a cue maker who will make me a cue? Maybe Dan Can change the Balance of my Joss?

If I could get a cue maker to change the balance of the cues I have without ruining them Id consider this..







SPINDOKTOR
 
thepavlos said:
I don't think there is a perfectly balanced cue because again it is just a matter of personal preference. What I like and what the next person likes is irrelevent to another. Some people like fat, some skinny some tall, some short ...just find what you like and helps you play more consistent and you don't have to worry what feels perfect to another person.
Just my opinion
Paul
PS
I like forward balanced cues
Click to expand...

I agree 100%, including liking forward balaced cues ;)
 
I'm a proponent of the 1/3 point being the preferred balance point... 20" from the butt for a 60" cue, which is what I play with. For a 58" cue, it would be 19.33".
 
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