Do you mind sharing that link? I would like to see it as it relates to a similar experiment involving chess players in a book I just read.
Cue Ball Control is Overrated!!!
- Thread starter BasementDweller
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Do you mind sharing that link? I would like to see it as it relates to a similar experiment involving chess players in a book I just read.
I don't know if this example really fits or where it fits if it does but Louie Roberts was considered to be one of if not the best shotmaker in the pro game when he was in his prime. And Yet Buddy Hall gave him the 7 ball 3 or 4 times and busted him each time.
According to legend that is.
This thread has been pretty much what I expected 
For me, my confidence at the table has ALWAYS been tied to my shotmaking ability. No confidence = no chance of winning. It sounds like that's not the case for a lot of people on this site. Now when I'm playing on a bar table I think I know how the elite 9' players feel because I don't worry too much about pocketing the balls and my main focus is on position. I have never really reached that point on the 9 footer and so that is why I view shotmaking as more important for someone at my level. (Just so you know where my game is at I can beat the 9 ball ghost on my 9 footer, I've run between 50-60 at 14.1 but looking to break off a good run soon, a legit big table shortstop could probably give me the 7 and like it).
Does anyone that plays my speed understand where I'm coming from?
One other thing, I knew a guy a while back who grew up playing some snooker. He had some century runs and could pocket the balls really good on a pool table. But he really had no idea how to play proper patterns. For him, every shot was difficult. He would sometimes manage to run out but his cue ball control was obviously his problem. In this thread, I wasn't really referring to this type of player. I was more talking about the type of player that can easily identify the proper patterns and move his cue ball around pretty good.
For me, my confidence at the table has ALWAYS been tied to my shotmaking ability. No confidence = no chance of winning. It sounds like that's not the case for a lot of people on this site. Now when I'm playing on a bar table I think I know how the elite 9' players feel because I don't worry too much about pocketing the balls and my main focus is on position. I have never really reached that point on the 9 footer and so that is why I view shotmaking as more important for someone at my level. (Just so you know where my game is at I can beat the 9 ball ghost on my 9 footer, I've run between 50-60 at 14.1 but looking to break off a good run soon, a legit big table shortstop could probably give me the 7 and like it).
Does anyone that plays my speed understand where I'm coming from?
One other thing, I knew a guy a while back who grew up playing some snooker. He had some century runs and could pocket the balls really good on a pool table. But he really had no idea how to play proper patterns. For him, every shot was difficult. He would sometimes manage to run out but his cue ball control was obviously his problem. In this thread, I wasn't really referring to this type of player. I was more talking about the type of player that can easily identify the proper patterns and move his cue ball around pretty good.
I see where youre coming from. I shoot around the same speed, and sure there are times I sacrifice position to make a ball. But I wouldnt say that I play that way in general, or that sacrificing cue ball position in general is a good idea. Plenty of times I know a better player would have gotten better position without sacrificing anything. All you can do is play within your means, do what works for you.
This thread reminds me of a buddy of mine, who 10 years ago was a raw but very scary shot maker. He would fire everything in super hard, and didnt care much about his cue ball. Still, he was good enough to run 9 ball racks in his own impossible looking way. Ran 50's in straight pool too, and competed as what i would call an unrefined B. Today you watch the same guy shoot, and you would never know it was him, a solid A.
I predict that once you feel very confident in your shot making, you will revisit cue ball control again. Good luck!
This thread reminds me of a buddy of mine, who 10 years ago was a raw but very scary shot maker. He would fire everything in super hard, and didnt care much about his cue ball. Still, he was good enough to run 9 ball racks in his own impossible looking way. Ran 50's in straight pool too, and competed as what i would call an unrefined B. Today you watch the same guy shoot, and you would never know it was him, a solid A.
I predict that once you feel very confident in your shot making, you will revisit cue ball control again. Good luck!
Who would you rather have shooting a safety? A great shotmaker who can almost make anything in sight? Or the one who's got the cb on a string?
A player who's got great cb control shoots less difficult shots than the other, and will definitely have less missed shots. Even if he has a difficult shot coming in, he always has the option of playing a good safety (due to his great cb control) in his back pocket.
Personally, I would rather play someone who shoots everything and leaves the cb to chance, than the one who's got a remote control in his hand. I couldn't help but smile inside if I'm up against a "shooter" for the cheese, while I'll be $h1tting in my pants if it was the latter...
You missed my point, which I'm certain is my fault not yours.
I have no doubts about where I stand as a player. I know "those guys" shoot WAAAAY straighter than I do - so no worries, I'm not out of my skull.
I wasn't even talking about being an agressive shotmaker vs a masterful cue ball wizard. As a matter of fact, I wasn't even talking about how you play during competition really. I was just referring to what I spend most of my practice time on at this point in my life. I just think a lot of players nearly abandon this portion of their skill development once they reach a certain level. Nothing more...nothing less.
Once a player reaches the pinnacle of the sport and they are a fully competent shotmaker, then only they know the little things that they need to work on. For the rest of us, I think continually striving to be better shotmakers can drive home greater returns than working on cue ball control. Of course, there will be a balance but stretching your shotmaking skills to the absolute limit forces you to improve your mechanics and all your fundamentals. You are not going to pocket difficult shots (e.g. long diagonal straight in shot with table length draw for example) without rock solid fundamentals. I do think you can get a bit lazy with you fundamentals at times while working on easier shots that focus on cue ball control.
Bear with me - I'm definitely not the best at making a clear and concise point. There are dozens if not hundreds of guys on here that could give me the 5 ball in that department but when I think I have something to add I give it my best. I knew I was in the minority on this one before I even submitted the OP. Oh well.
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You might be right, but Speed control can Never be over rated.
Shot-making vs. CB control? Why must you choose?
The problem may be that most players (and posters), look at shot-making and cue ball control as two separate accomplishments that somehow conflict with each other. It takes only one stroke to accomplish both, so why separate them in your mind? I teach both simultaneously, beginning with the simplest of shots, - for example half ball hits with a rolling ball where both balls travel the same distance. In other words begin with very easy to pocket shots and experiment with CB control on those, then move on to more challenging situations...always learning in increments and NEVER thinking about ONLY pocketing the ball or ONLY cue ball control. If properly taught, shot-making and CB control are learned at the same time and need never conflict.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
The problem may be that most players (and posters), look at shot-making and cue ball control as two separate accomplishments that somehow conflict with each other. It takes only one stroke to accomplish both, so why separate them in your mind? I teach both simultaneously, beginning with the simplest of shots, - for example half ball hits with a rolling ball where both balls travel the same distance. In other words begin with very easy to pocket shots and experiment with CB control on those, then move on to more challenging situations...always learning in increments and NEVER thinking about ONLY pocketing the ball or ONLY cue ball control. If properly taught, shot-making and CB control are learned at the same time and need never conflict.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
This is absolutely the case in most instances. There are very few Bar Box only masters.
I don't know about that, especially if you toss in the heavy Big Ball and a very humid climate.
Nowadays your statement maybe more true, but yrs ago I think not.
Home court in the south in the 60's on bar boxes, most anyone could go busted cept maybe Matlock.