cue building lathe or metal lathe

[JBCustomCues]

I am wondering what you cue makers would prefer. A cue building lathe such as a hightower, unique products or porper model b. Or a 13x36 metal lathe. Please list any pros and cons and if you want what you currently have in your arsenal of cue building.
thanks

 

[Craig Fales]

I prefer to use the lathe I built...If building your own isn't an option then probably have a cue lathe that you like...metal lathes will work somewhat...if the spindle bore is big enough...

 

[shakes]

the only thing you should look out for is making sure that a 36" lathe has enough carriage travel. The carriage travel should be more than 30" ideally.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I would suggest a 40" length, 36" usually won't have the travel needed for 30" cuts considering that you will probably have your router mounted on one side or the other. I have a 12 x 36 ENCO and a Cue Smith Deluxe and use both. the metal lathe is sturdier and more accurate, although the cue smith is plenty accurate if you take your time and don't take large cuts with it. The cue smith is very handy to have around and Chris now has a leather wrap fixture for it. Plus, Chris is a great guy to work with if you need anything.

The small cue lathes are safer due to the reduced power .
I haven't used the porper or unique.
My next buy will be a 13" x 40" metal lathe.
John

 

[desert1pocket]

The lathes designed for cue-making are already set-up, and ready to go, and will be easier on the wallet. They also have support from people using them to make cues if you run into problems. They do however take more time and more fussing to produce repeatable accuracy.

The metal lathes if set up properly are much more accurate, but it takes time, money, extra tooling, and some knowledge to get them set up for making cues. Ditto on the 40" comment. 9 out of 10 36" lathes will not have enough carriage travel for cue building.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Get a metal lathe to do your assembly and making parts.
Get a taper machine to do your tapers.

 

[manwon]

I am wondering what you cue makers would prefer. A cue building lathe such as a hightower, unique products or porper model b. Or a 13x36 metal lathe. Please list any pros and cons and if you want what you currently have in your arsenal of cue building.
thanks

I received a Porper B Lathe from Santa last year for Christmas, and I really like it. Here are some photo's of the equipment after I unpacked it from the box, with all the accessories that came with it. Delivered to my pool room in Washington state it cost $4000, and Joe and his people were a pleasure to deal with, and they made the transaction very easy as well.

I have no experience, with the High Tower or Unique products lathes, however, it appears that they are also very popular, and to my knowledge they are also cheaper.

The best advantage to buying a cue lathe is that it is already set-up and ready to begin. As you can see by the photo's a great deal of the equipment you will need comes with this Lathe.







Last of all, this model while not a metal lathe is designed and built to very high standards that are time tested. The model I purchased is the New Fully upgraded Model B.

Hope this helps!!!!!

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

I am wondering what you cue makers would prefer. A cue building lathe such as a hightower, unique products or porper model b. Or a 13x36 metal lathe. Please list any pros and cons and if you want what you currently have in your arsenal of cue building.
thanks

You'll make more money at repairs, than making Qs. Also the lathes made for making & repairing, are easy to sell, if you decide this is not what you want...JER

 

[Jack Madden]

I have all metal lathes.

 

[Kenny]

While the price of a 12x36 metal lathe seems to be half the price of any of the cue building lathes, there are a few differences.
The metal lathe
10 times the space
not portable
comes with a couple of chucks, usually very low end and not accurate
comes with nothing else that you will need to build or work on cues
cost of tooling is usually more than the lathe
resale is low
hard to move
replacement parts are expensive
bigger lathes get you hurt much quicker if you have not used a lathe before

cue makers lathe
ready to work out of the package
cost more on paper but value is in all tooling plus that is included
portable
easy to sell for close to price paid
replacement parts relatively inexpensive
you have customer service after the sale

I have 5 vintage american iron metal lathes

 

[rhncue]

While the price of a 12x36 metal lathe seems to be half the price of any of the cue building lathes, there are a few differences.
The metal lathe
10 times the space
not portable
comes with a couple of chucks, usually very low end and not accurate
comes with nothing else that you will need to build or work on cues
cost of tooling is usually more than the lathe
resale is low
hard to move
replacement parts are expensive
bigger lathes get you hurt much quicker if you have not used a lathe before

cue makers lathe
ready to work out of the package
cost more on paper but value is in all tooling plus that is included
portable
easy to sell for close to price paid
replacement parts relatively inexpensive
you have customer service after the sale

I have 5 vintage american iron metal lathes

I think you have a couple of good points here and a couple of misconceptions also. A larger heavier metal lathe does take up more room, certainly not 10 times more room unless your cue makers lathe is sitting on a shelf boxed in where you just stick your hands in to use it. True, a large metal lathe is not portable. Yes they usually come with a couple of cheaper chucks that are not as accurate as they could be but then again, they are still more accurate than what comes on a cue maker lathe.
I would also be interested to know just what tooling is needed for a larger lathe that is not also needed for a cue makers lathe? There are, of coarse, much tooling that COULD be purchased for a machine lathe to make it operate more quickly and efficiently that can't even be used on the cue makers lathe but then they aren't necessary.
As far as resale, why would you think that a larger lathe such as a 13X36 or 40 not be easy to sell? Very large heavy lathes such as Sebastions and LeBlonds an such don't sell for what they should because machine shops have all gone to CNC and they are just to large and heavy for most homeowners with small shops. Your lighter, imported lathes hold their value very well as they are fairly easy to move and still plenty big enough for most hobbyist or home shop work. I have an Enco I bought 15 years ago new and I could sell it today for almost what I paid for it. Depending on what type lathe you have, some parts may be more expensive or harder to get but then again, with a full size lathe and a small mill/drill, there are few parts or accessories you can't make yourself or easily adapt from something else. With-in two days after the arrival of my Enco lathe in 1991, I had made and installed a full length taper attachment for the cost of less than 15.00, an adapter and an old chuck installed on the rear of the spindle with less than 5.00 invested and about 25 different size colletts so as not to mark the cue for well under 10.00.

As far as I'm concerned, the only true benefits of a cue makers lathe over bigger lathes are : portability and less room needed how ever with all the other equipment that is needed for building cues ( saws, spray booth, wood storage and such) I don't really see this as a problem, easier to get started out of the box and the maker of the lathe to fall back on for guidance in cue making.

Bigger lathes have to many benefits to even list.

Dick

By the way, I have 11 lathes but who's counting

 

[JBCustomCues]

Thanks to all for all the great insite. Currently I have a hightower deluxe machine, unique tapper shaper and a cue monster cnc machine. I was thinking about adding a 13x36 metal lathe. If any one is interested here is the link to the lathe http://www.grizzly.com/products/G4003G . Anyways I thought that a metal lathe would be a great addition to the shop. The only problem that I am having with cue lathes is that its hard to get consistant accuracy with the cue lathes with out alot of fussing with the machines. And I guess I thought that a metal would be better.

 

[pdcue]

Thanks to all for all the great insite. Currently I have a hightower deluxe machine, unique tapper shaper and a cue monster cnc machine. I was thinking about adding a 13x36 metal lathe. If any one is interested here is the link to the lathe http://www.grizzly.com/products/G4003G . Anyways I thought that a metal lathe would be a great addition to the shop. The only problem that I am having with cue lathes is that its hard to get consistant accuracy with the cue lathes with out alot of fussing with the machines. And I guess I thought that a metal would be better.

And in that thought, you are exactly right.

IMHO I'm not wild about Giz
better alts for equal or less $s

1. a used American made lathe, if it's a a cream puff<NOT easy to find>
2. a Jet
3. ENCO

 

[desert1pocket]

Thanks to all for all the great insite. Currently I have a hightower deluxe machine, unique tapper shaper and a cue monster cnc machine. I was thinking about adding a 13x36 metal lathe. If any one is interested here is the link to the lathe http://www.grizzly.com/products/G4003G . Anyways I thought that a metal lathe would be a great addition to the shop. The only problem that I am having with cue lathes is that its hard to get consistant accuracy with the cue lathes with out alot of fussing with the machines. And I guess I thought that a metal would be better.

As mentioned before, the 36" will not allow a full pass, but that does not mean it wouldn't make a great addition to your shop. Even though they are all made in the same factory, I agree with pdcue that the Jet and Enco tend to be a little better quality than the Grizz or Central Machinery brands. If you have experience working on lathes, the cheaper ones will be just as good as the more expensive ones after a tear down and re-build. As pdcue also mentioned, a good used american made is the best choice, but they are hard to come by. I don't know where you are located, but I have seen some great deals recently on the Birmingham 36" & 40" lathes here on the west coast. The one big plus Grizzly has going for them is the cheap freight to get it to your shop. JMO

 

[cueman]

As far as I'm concerned, the only true benefits of a cue makers lathe over bigger lathes are : portability and less room needed how ever with all the other equipment that is needed for building cues ( saws, spray booth, wood storage and such) I don't really see this as a problem, easier to get started out of the box and the maker of the lathe to fall back on for guidance in cue making.

Dick

The ready to use out of the box is a big plus for cue lathes. You see no other true benefits other than portability and less room needed. I know you can give us the advantages of the large metal lathes, so here are a few benefits most large metal lathes don't offer.
Foot pedal speed controlled wrapping. Short headstock that allows you to work on short tapered parts with out the hassles of the long spindle metal lathe. Speed drilling lever tailstock. Rear chuck for working short parts and for holding rod as a work stop so you can cut all parts same length. Usually a little faster sanding speed. Dovetail bed that allows attachments and steady rests to quickly come on and off of the bed. Bed goes to left of headstock for precision aligning of cue in steady rest. Accepts bed extension for working on one piece cues. Indexing built into the headstock. Speed scroll chucks that open and close faster than conventional chucks. Easy for customer to repair when needed. Parts in stock and usually inexpensive. Yes, cue lathes have their limitations which are many, but they do have more pluses than most who never have used them seriously would know. And those pluses are not too bad for something I have heard referred to as toys.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[rhncue]

The ready to use out of the box is a big plus for cue lathes. You see no other true benefits other than portability and less room needed. I know you can give us the advantages of the large metal lathes, so here are a few benefits most large metal lathes don't offer.
Foot pedal speed controlled wrapping. Short headstock that allows you to work on short tapered parts with out the hassles of the long spindle metal lathe. Speed drilling lever tailstock. Rear chuck for working short parts and for holding rod as a work stop so you can cut all parts same length. Usually a little faster sanding speed. Dovetail bed that allows attachments and steady rests to quickly come on and off of the bed. Bed goes to left of headstock for precision aligning of cue in steady rest. Accepts bed extension for working on one piece cues. Indexing built into the headstock. Speed scroll chucks that open and close faster than conventional chucks. Easy for customer to repair when needed. Parts in stock and usually inexpensive. Yes, cue lathes have their limitations which are many, but they do have more pluses than most who never have used them seriously would know. And those pluses are not too bad for something I have heard referred to as toys.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

Well, most people using a full size lathe also has a 150.00 wood lathe for wrapping, sanding, polishing and finishing but even if they don't you can still mount a sewing machine motor and pedal on a large lathe the same as a small one. I'm not sure how I see where a short headstock helps in making smaller parts. There are speed drilling tail stocks for many larger lathes but I have never seen a need for one as a hole should be drilled slowly and the bit pulled and cleaned often to drill a straight hole in wood plus by using the lever you loose leverage so that the ram can't be tightened as snugly for eliminating play as you can with a screw type. Most people using a full size lathe for making cues also have a chuck on the rear of the spindle and although the chucks are to far apart for short objects they make working on full size cues much easier as they will run so much truer than if the chucks are right next to each other and a stop can be put in this chuck just as easily as it can be put in the smaller machines chuck. Your lathe may spin a little faster, I don't know. Like I said earlier though, most use a wood lathe that can run 3500 rpm. By the way, I keep both of my larger general working lathes geared down so that they won't run so fast by accident and blow a chuck apart. Mine are limited to not run faster than 3000 rpm. It can't take longer than a minute to put a steady rest on a larger lathe. Since most larger lathes have a chuck on both ends of the spindle and far enough apart to do some good, a steady rest seldom is needed for working on full size butts. Usually one piece cues can be worked on between the chucks on a full size lathe without a problem, if the butt is badly warped then I have a short extension I clamp on the back of the lathe to keep the handle from oscillating to badly. Some metal lathes such as Atlas also have indexing in the head. I have a cheap indexer (29.00) that I used to mount in the back chuck if I'm indexing for points or making deco-rings. It has 1 degree increments by the way, what does the smaller machines increment to? Those smaller chucks may open and close faster than a full size scroll chuck but then I'm sure they are not as accurate. You give a little and you lose a little. As far as easy to repair and parts availability then you are probably right that the small lathe is easier to work on but then you shouldn't have to work on them. I've built hundreds upon hundreds of cues and have worked on many thousands and the only things that I've had to replace in the last 15 years are carbide cutters.

You are right that the smaller lathes have some pluses over a larger lathe but then again that works the other way around also. As far as the smaller lathes being called toys well, I do it all the time. When your used to working with larger equipment that's what the smaller stuff feels like. Machinist in large shops who use larger equipment call Bridgeport mills toys. For most people a Bridgeport is the cats meow but then you can spin a Bridgeport between centers in a Cincy#2. I remember back in the fifties that Metropolitans, Crosleys and VWs were called toy cars. It's just what you are used to.

Dick

 

[cutter]

cue building lathe

All the points made up till this point have been pretty much right on. Only thing not really discussed is repeatability and set up time. The smaller lathes just don't have the repeatability of a good larger lathe, and especially in the chuck selections. Not a problem if you like indicating, and indicating and indicating. Don't get me wrong, you have to indicate everything you put in lathe, every time, but the closer it is the less time it takes to get it dead nuts. The little scroll chucks have to be shimmed. A set tru or 4 jaw is much faster to center. If you plan on doing one a week it's not a big deal, but do ten in a row, and that dial indicator starts getting fuzzy looking. A lot to be said for pure mass. Why do you think the big wood turning lathes weigh so much. It dampens vibrations. I think Thomas Wayne made his first cue on a drill press, so it can be done a lot of ways. The set up ones have a lot of stuff, but you are sort of limited to their tooling. The bigger stuff has access to a whole lot more tooling, unfortunately it comes with a price. I would guess a good rule of thumb is what ever the lathe cost, you will spend that again to properly tool it.