Cue Collectors Association ?????

[jhendri2]

I know of the ACA, but is there an association for cue collectors? Kind of like there is for different cars, corvettes etc. I know there are a lot of collectors, why not an association for us instead of always for the artisans? After all, we're the owners of the cues...

Just a thought.

Jim

 

[dooziexx]

I know of the ACA, but is there an association for cue collectors? Kind of like there is for different cars, corvettes etc. I know there are a lot of collectors, why not an association for us instead of always for the artisans? After all, we're the owners of the cues...

Just a thought.

Jim

Maybe you should start one up...I'll be your first member

 

[Rich R.]

I know of the ACA, but is there an association for cue collectors? Kind of like there is for different cars, corvettes etc. I know there are a lot of collectors, why not an association for us instead of always for the artisans? After all, we're the owners of the cues...

Just a thought.

Jim

I believe there is an International Cue Collector's association and they recently had a show in Park City, Utah.

I'm sure there is some one lurking, who know more about it than I do.

Fred or Jimmy B, are you out there??????

 

[TATE]

I know of the ACA, but is there an association for cue collectors? Kind of like there is for different cars, corvettes etc. I know there are a lot of collectors, why not an association for us instead of always for the artisans? After all, we're the owners of the cues...

Just a thought.

Jim

I have often thought how great it would be to have a club like that. It would be nice to track photo's, research, histories, values, etc. and to be able to exchange information. It would be nice to have a web site with gobs of scans and info on cues, and a place to show off your collection.

Chris

 

[SSach]

Q- Club

Well since so many people here are for this, why not consider having one right here. We have the Cue Gallary, but how about we have Q-Club. Designate certain members to provide insight..(ie Joe from Classic Cues or Fred Agnir (sp?) ) and make sure the cues are worthy of posting.

I for one would not want to see everyones collection if they have the 97 series of Meucci's or other production cues. But would love to see one off cues from past and present cue makers. Members vote to see what cue makes it to the collection.

 

[blud]

associations

I have often thought how great it would be to have a club like that. It would be nice to track photo's, research, histories, values, etc. and to be able to exchange information. It would be nice to have a web site with gobs of scans and info on cues, and a place to show off your collection.

Chris

The association your speaking of is billy strouds personal show. He's got just so many cuemakers [ around 10], he invites each time they show. If your not a suck-aXX cuemaker, or you do something he dis-likes, you don't get invited.

However, Several cue-collectors come and show there cues. Many have up to 300 cues within there personal collections.....

It's really a cue collectors show. The general public in the past has had to pay to get in.

I considered starting one about 8 or 10 years ago. Problem is, why would a collector want to pay dues or belong to a club that means nothing to him.
Collectors will collect with or without any of us, including stroud.

INTERESTING NOTE!
{{{{{{Dan Janes was inducted into the ACA's hall of fame, a couple years back. stroud got pissed because he didn't get in, and told dan dishaw [ the ACA president],to remove dan janes, and place his name as being inducted, if he ever wanted to be a part of his show again. Nice of him, don't you think?

{ he also got pissed at me for not including him in my new association, "CUEMASTERS"}. Crap happens....cuemasters has folks who can get along together, help each other when help is needed. None are above the others.

The statement about strouds attitude, I have. It's in print if any of you want to read it, e-mail me and I'll send it out.It was all over the air/ways last year.
This shows strouds make up.}}}}}}}}

stroud also claims to be a founder of the ACA. he was "NOT" a "FOUNDER". I should know because I was the founder. I had much help from Joe Porper Tim Scruggs, and many others including my wife, Janice.

With stroud, it's his way or the high-way. I in no way am knocking his shows, I just don't agree with his tactics. Ego's to big and cares not who he hurts along the way, as long as his name is in print, and on the front page.

Don't get me wrong, I like billy boy, but have no respect for him, because of the way he treats others...

If any of you guys know stroud, you know just how he is.......

blud

 

[larrynj1]

there are plenty of beautiful production cues that i would like to see and hear more about. rich cue co, abe rich ,meucci, helmstetter, mcdermotts,as well as brunswicks from many different decades come to mind. joss has some fantastic cues, some joss' made for brunswick are great too. cues in the $250-750 range have a huge market. here's a neat unmarked mcdermott for example -

 

[blud]

respect

Well since so many people here are for this, why not consider having one right here. We have the Cue Gallary, but how about we have Q-Club. Designate certain members to provide insight..(ie Joe from Classic Cues or Fred Agnir (sp?) ) and make sure the cues are worthy of posting.

I for one would not want to see everyones collection if they have the 97 series of Meucci's or other production cues. But would love to see one off cues from past and present cue makers. Members vote to see what cue makes it to the collection.

SSach,
With all due respect, I think it would be a big mistake having a cue-dealer, cue collector, cuemaker or president of an association, being involved with the selection of what should or should not be shown.As far as members voting that's a good idea, provided a set of "RULES" are out-layed and be stiff rules, so you would have nice cues.
Voting in this mannor, [ with stiff rules], would make it fair for all, and not have someone vote for a buddy....Several differant catagories for votes.
examples,
to name a few..
1.- style.
2.- vee points.
3.- CNC points.
4.- executation.
5.-clean workmanship.
6.-art.
7.- value, not below a certain dollar amount.However do not have a board or members place a value on a cue. Let the cuemaker or owner do that. It either sells or does not.
8.- the hit of a cue should never be in this and or discussed. Everyone has a differant feel touch and opinion about the hit. This hit subject should be strickly of limits, guys.


many differant catagories can be within the rules.

Just draw up rules that will apply to all. Have someone, or several members moderate the site so we won't get crap as collectable cues.



After putting together two differant associations, believe me, you can collect MUCH-HEAT, and get off track easily.

If you guys want, I'll help all I can, but do not want to be in charge of anything,........

blud

 

[SSach]

Just my thoughts

Blud,

I just offered some ideas and did not say who would be excluded from offering insight. I think a cuemaker would be a great idea, but would not want to have a conflict of interest type issue. Many players can wind up being cue aficionados for different reasons. And all of your above-mentioned criteria are worth noting.

The voting of a cue into the AZBilliard collection could be allot of fun. Insight provided by the members appointed (i.e. cue construction, history, materials, and anything worth noting). In addition, I don't think cuemakers should be offended if one of their cues does not make the collection - not all elite cuemakers make every cue that deserves to be in a collection. We can limit the amount of cues from one cuemaker.

These are all just ideas... please don't be offended if you disagree or have a different view. I would just like to see something happen.

 

[blud]

no problem

Blud,

I just offered some ideas and did not say who would be excluded from offering insight. I think a cuemaker would be a great idea, but would not want to have a conflict of interest type issue. Many players can wind up being cue aficionados for different reasons. And all of your above-mentioned criteria are worth noting.

The voting of a cue into the AZBilliard collection could be allot of fun. Insight provided by the members appointed (i.e. cue construction, history, materials, and anything worth noting). In addition, I don't think cuemakers should be offended if one of their cues does not make the collection - not all elite cuemakers make every cue that deserves to be in a collection. We can limit the amount of cues from one cuemaker.

These are all just ideas... please don't be offended if you disagree or have a different view. I would just like to see something happen.

No problem, I meant no harm. I just think there should be some guide lines for this good idea. The number of cues submitted per month, year or whatever is also a good idea. If this project is not done properly, this would become a very big pissin contest with some. Some will get there fellings hurt, because of this type topic.

If you try and seperate the young cuemakers from the older ones [still living] this would be bad.All should be treated equal. Maybe have differant catagories for differant priced cues.

As an older cuemaker[building for years], I would not want to make a judgement call on who's cue won or lost. There are many fine cuemakers today, some are better than others. Nuff said about that be me, sir.

This type of collection would be promoting differant cuemakers from time to time. Nothing wrong with that either. Just do your best to keep a clean house and set of rules that all must abide by. If not, it will blow up fast and cause much trouble.

As mentioned, I will asist you guys, if you wish, in setting up some rules of the road, so to speak.

The rules process should be very simple and straight forward, easy to understand by all.. Makes life easier that way.

Just let me know?

rock on

blud

 

[jhendri2]

I guess there is more people interested in this than I originally thought. I was thinking of an organization more along the lines of what coin collectors, stamp collectors etc. have.

Maybe have a cuemaker interviewed monthly with different cues featured. A "gallery" of different cues. Maybe an index of older "production" cues. I wouldn't want to exclude anyone as this just breeds disention and elitism.

Blud,

You asked why people would want to join a club that means nothing to him. People are part of different clubs, just to share thoughts with others of the same interest or to gain different knowledge on the subject. But, you have to offer them something in return for those dues, i.e. a newsletter or an information site or whatever.

Just my thoughts,

Jim

 

[firemankc]

Cue Collectors

There is a site on Yahoo.com called cuecollectors. Go to Yahoo.com and click (groups) then type in cuecollectors. There are 30 or so members. The site is run by Tony Martino. You have to register to belong to this site. The site is for serious pool cue collectors to post and exchange information about the Collection, Sale, or Trade of COLLECTIBLE CUES ONLY.

 

[whiteoak]

Cuemasters

The association your speaking of is billy strouds personal show. He's got just so many cuemakers [ around 10], he invites each time they show. If your not a suck-aXX cuemaker, or you do something he dis-likes, you don't get invited.

However, Several cue-collectors come and show there cues. Many have up to 300 cues within there personal collections.....

It's really a cue collectors show. The general public in the past has had to pay to get in.

I considered starting one about 8 or 10 years ago. Problem is, why would a collector want to pay dues or belong to a club that means nothing to him.
Collectors will collect with or without any of us, including stroud.

INTERESTING NOTE!
{{{{{{Dan Janes was inducted into the ACA's hall of fame, a couple years back. stroud got pissed because he didn't get in, and told dan dishaw [ the ACA president],to remove dan janes, and place his name as being inducted, if he ever wanted to be a part of his show again. Nice of him, don't you think?

{ he also got pissed at me for not including him in my new association, "CUEMASTERS"}. Crap happens....cuemasters has folks who can get along together, help each other when help is needed. None are above the others.

The statement about strouds attitude, I have. It's in print if any of you want to read it, e-mail me and I'll send it out.It was all over the air/ways last year.
This shows strouds make up.}}}}}}}}

stroud also claims to be a founder of the ACA. he was "NOT" a "FOUNDER". I should know because I was the founder. I had much help from Joe Porper Tim Scruggs, and many others including my wife, Janice.

With stroud, it's his way or the high-way. I in no way am knocking his shows, I just don't agree with his tactics. Ego's to big and cares not who he hurts along the way, as long as his name is in print, and on the front page.

Don't get me wrong, I like billy boy, but have no respect for him, because of the way he treats others...

If any of you guys know stroud, you know just how he is.......

blud

Mr.Bludworth,We have never met but hopfully will get a chance someday.I just wanted to add my thoughts on someone you mentioned.I have never had dealings with anyone who was as kind,thoughtful,and professional as Tim Scruggs.If Mr. Scruggs is a friend of yours you gotta be o.k. Thanks,m.s.

 

[Celtic]

Well Blud makes it sound like all the collecting clubs are crap. This means we are at square 1 again, lets start a cue collecting society here on the boards (if it grows we can start a webpage and expand out from here). No fees, no membership requirements other then loving cues. We could have 4 levels of membership, bronze membership is the participant who enjoys the collectable cues but does not have any that qualify for the club's presentation standard (aka the cue pictures, specs, and history would be shown on the site). Silver members have 1-2 cues that qualify as collectable and meet the club presentation standard. Gold members have 3-10 cues in their collection that meet the club presentation standard. And the platinum member has 11+ cues that are collectable and meet the club standard. Known cue makers with actual history (to stop joe blow who built one cue once in his basement) are treated as platinum members.

The club standard for a cue being part of the organizations collection would be voted on by all its members with weighting based on the level of the member (1 vote weight for bronze, 3 vote weight for silver, 5 vote weight for gold, and 10 vote weight for platinum) The reason for weighting it both to make sure the knowledgable people are properly empowered in voting for what they know and to offest the fact that there would likely be alot less people in the upper membership.

Cue guildlines that decide whether a cue is deemed as "collectable" by the club would depend on criteria such as
1) Design
2) Builder
3) Value
4) Materials
5) and whatever else the people who started and run the club would deem important.

I would think yearly votes on a president, treasurer, VP, and afew other key rolls for the club would be smart, giving some of the more active people some power to organize shows, publicize the club, hell in time if it got big enough the club could have booths at the trade shows and in Vegas at the tournies.

I could envision over time something like this becomming huge, having a commisioned sale of cues section, doing cue identifications, doing trade shows like Allen Hopkins show and having some members showing off some of their key pieces, maybe having a annual award presented to a certain cuemaker in the field, taking a major role in books such as "The Bluebook". There is potential for something like this to become huge


<edit> like Blud mentioned (there are alot of fast posts on this) we gotta stop "crap" cues from comming into the mix, that is the reason for the voting system. The club would be best serverd having a gallery area where the pics of the collectable cues are kept and added by only a small few people who have access to edit that area. Then we could have another area for submissions where a person can show afew pics of their cue/s and write up where they come from, the history of them. One pic must contain a piece of paper with the person's membership name on it beside the cue to maintain actual ownership and that the person did not pull the pic off the net somewhere. After a week of the cue in the submissions area it goes to the voting area for 1 week where members all get 1 vote (weighted) on the cue and whether they think it is collectable or not. If it is decided collectable it is added to the gallery under the name of the member, if not it is removed with a thankyou for the submission but the cue is not deemed as collectable at this time.

 

[blud]

sorry

Well Blud makes it sound like all the collecting clubs are crap. This means we are at square 1 again, lets start a cue collecting society here on the boards (if it grows we can start a webpage and expand out from here). No fees, no membership requirements other then loving cues. We could have 4 levels of membership, bronze membership is the participant who enjoys the collectable cues but does not have any that qualify for the club's presentation standard (aka the cue pictures, specs, and history would be shown on the site). Silver members have 1-2 cues that qualify as collectable and meet the club presentation standard. Gold members have 3-10 cues in their collection that meet the club presentation standard. And the platinum member has 11+ cues that are collectable and meet the club standard. Known cue makers with actual history (to stop joe blow who built one cue once in his basement) are treated as platinum members.

The club standard for a cue being part of the organizations collection would be voted on by all its members with weighting based on the level of the member (1 vote weight for bronze, 3 vote weight for silver, 5 vote weight for gold, and 10 vote weight for platinum) The reason for weighting it both to make sure the knowledgable people are properly empowered in voting for what they know and to offest the fact that there would likely be alot less people in the upper membership.

Cue guildlines that decide whether a cue is deemed as "collectable" by the club would depend on criteria such as
1) Design
2) Builder
3) Value
4) Materials
5) and whatever else the people who started and run the club would deem important.

I would think yearly votes on a president, treasurer, VP, and afew other key rolls for the club would be smart, giving some of the more active people some power to organize shows, publicize the club, hell in time if it got big enough the club could have booths at the trade shows and in Vegas at the tournies.

I could envision over time something like this becomming huge, having a commisioned sale of cues section, doing cue identifications, doing trade shows like Allen Hopkins show and having some members showing off some of their key pieces, maybe having a annual award presented to a certain cuemaker in the field, taking a major role in books such as "The Bluebook". There is potential for something like this to become huge


<edit> like Blud mentioned (there are alot of fast posts on this) we gotta stop "crap" cues from comming into the mix, that is the reason for the voting system. The club would be best serverd having a gallery area where the pics of the collectable cues are kept and added by only a small few people who have access to edit that area. Then we could have another area for submissions where a person can show afew pics of their cue/s and write up where they come from, the history of them. One pic must contain a piece of paper with the person's membership name on it beside the cue to maintain actual ownership and that the person did not pull the pic off the net somewhere. After a week of the cue in the submissions area it goes to the voting area for 1 week where members all get 1 vote (weighted) on the cue and whether they think it is collectable or not. If it is decided collectable it is added to the gallery under the name of the member, if not it is removed with a thankyou for the submission but the cue is not deemed as collectable at this time.

Didn't mean to come across that way. [crap]. Some folks who are in this business are just that. Your ideas are good ones, just take your time in getting it set up.Make the right choices from the get go.You will draw more quality folks that way.


blud

 

[jhendri2]

Celtic,

You and I are thinking along the same lines. A couple of things I would change in your post would be

1. the criteria you use for a "collectable" is great, but I would change that to a "gallery" cue

Reasoning: A person may collect McDermott's, a good cue but not high end, but if a person collected the whole D series that McDermott put out, he would have a nice collection and I would consider him a cue collector. The individual McDermott's may not meet the standards of a "gallery" cue, but his colelction would certainly be one I would want to see.

2. I would not weight so heavily on the memberships. I totally agree they should be weighted according to a persons experience. I would go more along the lines of Platinum (4), Gold (3), Silver (2), Bronze (1).

Reasoning: You want every member to feel valuable, but if it takes 10 Bronze member to make up for 1 platinum member, this just doesn't seem right to me.

3. I would have a special section for dealers. Dealers, of course are going to have ALOT more cues than a players will have. I would not want to see the whole organization run by dealers.

Just something to think about,

Jim

 

[Celtic]

I thought about the weighting long and hard before deciding on those numbers. The thing is this is a "cue collecting" club, or organization, or what have you. It is designed strictly with the intent of getting cue collectors together to share and compare their collections. I would not go so far as omitting those who dont have a cue collection from the membership, but those without any collection to speak of are really just there to observe and are likely not to have anywhere near the knowledge of the true collectors.

Plus one must imagine, if this gets up and running then most of the membership are not going to be cue collectors with large collections. What I want to avoid is a situation where

80% of the membership is bronze (80 people)
12% of the membership is silver (12 people)
7% of the people are gold (7 people)
3% of the people are platinum (3 people)

and you end up with all the choices being based off the non-collectors of the club. The true collectors who own and maintain the collections that the club would be based around and exist because of should have a truely lions share of the vote. The club exists due to their involvement, not the guy who does not collet and just window shops the club. Even in my example weighting the bronze people would have 80 votes of power to the platinum's power of 30. Plus this makes collecting cues even more enticing, now people want to get that fancy cue that gets into the gallery and makes them a more involved member of the club.

One of the clubs biggest mandates would probably be the increase of cue collecting and getting more people into it, thereby raising the price of the cues and increasing the demand, good for the cue makers, good for the collectors, good for the sport as a whole too.

I would not want the club to be snobbish, it would allow anyone interested in cue collecting to be a member whether they collect or not. But you must understand, Joe Cuecollector with $200,000 worth of cues he is willing to display in the gallery and allow to take part in the club is putting alot more legitimacy into the club then Joe Wowneatcues who owns a $300 Joss and a Dufferin break cue but thinks all the cues in this collection are just swell and is a member. We need those huge cue collectors to become members and be a major force in the club or it just wont fly. They and their collections would be the heart of the club, the reason for it's very existence.

Heck, I myself would be silver at best, I have 1 cue that is actually cool and collectable, other then that my break cue is a custom made cue, yet fairly basic, my Joss Hustler is pretty basic, my Brunswick Break/Jump is unimpressive. Basically my shooter would be gallery worthy I am sure, none else would qualify at all. There has to be some kind of quality control, or else we are going to have to accept Joe Barplayer's collection of beer labled cues he has gotten over the years. While that may be a neat collection if we start allowing people to put stuff like that into the main collectable cues gallery it would end up being cluttered with cues that are just not that interesting and that people have to sieve through to see the odd true prize. The gallery should be the place where one cue after another you click to the next cue and gaulk at each and every one. Each of those cues having a "owned by member's name" and enabling a person to click on their name to see their members page with thumbnails of their entire collection.

We need more brainstorming, I am not a cue collector. I would love to set this up but I would feel a little odd doing it as I have only one cue that would even qualify as collectable and I shoot with it. Hell its even in Canada atm and I have not even seen it in 10 months =/

 

[jhendri2]

Celtic,

You've changed my mind on the votes, I see where you're coming from now. I, like you, am no expert in cue collecting. I would probably be in the silver or gold category.

Large extavogent "collections" should be just that a personal collection. Not dealers trying to sell their cues.

If you you look at my previous statement, what I meant by a Gallery cue would be one that would allow entrance into the different levels of membership and would allowed to be showcased in a "gallery" section. I think we're talking about the same thing just two different ways.

I think our goals and visions are basically along the same lines.

Jim

 

[larrynj1]

i'm against the weighting of membership votes, etc. in all cases. all members should be welcomed equally, the guy with the fiberglass cue today may become the balabushka buyer in the future due to his club membership experience.

a gallery of outstanding cues of production methods and styles would be a great educational tool for members. i'm not so sure i like the voting method for inclusion. maybe a few people designated for each type of classification, ie: cnc designs, full and short splices, inlays, pioneers of each decade, etc.,could screen the cues for inclusion. a person's collection or cuemaking experience could qualify them as a screener.
let's not forget about memorabilia(SP?), plenty of collectors out there, cue cases as well. an annual or semi-annual auction of member's item for sale to member's only could be an incentive to join the club. a trade show of sorts with exhibition space open to all should be an eventual goal.

dealers and cuemakers should be in a separate professional group, ie: actual business people, not someone who sells on e-bay.a sales tax id # can be required for a business membership.

 

[Zims Rack]

I have my own resale business, but I also have my personal cue collection. Would someone like me be allowed in this "Cue Collectors Organization"? My collection is not for sale or atleast not advertised as for sale. I think the different catagories of cues (ie. veneered points, cnc points, looks, construction, etc) and the catagories of collectors (ie. gold, silver, bronze, etc) are a good idea. What about putting a minimum on the cues in someones collection. For example: if you have a playing cue and a break cue, this is not a collection IMO. If you have a playing cue, break cue and 4 other cues, this might be considered a collection. I think each person should submit photos of each cue, why their collection is a collection to them and what makes their cues collectable. I collect cues of ebony and curly maple w/various other woods mixed in, but I wont duplicate any cue makers/manufacturers, only one from each cue maker will make it in my collection. From production to custom, if it's ebony and curly maple and I like it, it's added to my personal collection.
I'm game for this organization! What about fees? Did I overlook this or has it not been mentioned. Fees would help off set the website and advertising! Maybe some sponsorship from retail stores, companies, but not cue makers only. By having a cue maker sponsor this, it might show favortism, maybe not! I don't think it would, but that's JMO!

Zim